What does the green wire do ?

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allanbairstow
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What does the green wire do ?

Following on from 'My Simple Leaf Conversion' I want to install some accessories to the bike. The first thing I need is a permanent 12v 2amp feed for my mobile phone.
As the feed for the old plenum fans is no longer needed I decided to test the voltage and it seems to supply what I need.

20160117_111139 (360x640).jpg

I have one question - what is the green wire for ? Anybody know ?

Are there any pitfalls from using the old plenum fan wiring ?

R
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

There were 2 imperllers in nimh batteries.
brown is +12 impeller 1,
green +12 impeller 2,
white is ground for both impellers.
The fan is active as long as the Firmware tells the charger to keep both on.
Depending on the firm you install, they may not work.

allanbairstow
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

Ah, so I have two 12v supplies, that's great news. I don't know why I didn't even test it in the first place ! I think these supplies are permanently live with TheLairds software but I'm not 100% certain - I'll have to check that out. Cheers R.

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BLUESTREAK
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

HI ALLEN the (2) 12 volt circuits are seperated at the controller. and with THE LAIRD'S firmware the ciccuits are alive all the time that the switch is on. the fan draw (2.25 amps.) each about 29 watts. and there are no side effects in using the for any thing you want, the circuits probobly produce more than 2.25 amps. when you turn on power the circuits are delayed just like they are when the fan would come on. I have added over (30)led lights on my VX-4. I will try to post some photos.2015-08-19 11.52.44.jpg2015-12-21 12.02.21.jpg how did that get in there?.2015-12-28 10.11.21_1.jpg

BLUESTREAK
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

See my post ( EXTRA LIGHTS ANYONE?)here on the V more photos.

allanbairstow
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

Hi All,

Great responses, thanks guys. I am going to incorporate a twin usb outlet in the glove box to power my mobile phone (2.1 amp) and a feed for the bike camera system (1 amp). As I now have a second supply I will be using this for either extra LED's (possibly convert the topbox with additional LED's) or an extra dual usb outlet in the under seat storage area. I also have some blue LED strips that I was contemplating putting under the bike - not sure if this is a bit ostentatious though ! You are correct about the feed being live all the time, I had it confirmed by TheLaird.

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Kocho
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

Why not just use the cigarette lighter accessory port? Are you using it for something else and need additional power? Is that lighter powered from the same power circuits as the fans (may be controlled differently)?

BLUESTREAK
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

That circuit in glov box lighter socket only allows .5 amp. so it's not connected to the fan circuit.

allanbairstow
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

Hi,
The standard 12v socket in the glovebox only supplies 0.5amps which is not really any good for modern devices. My phone requires 12v and 2amps, anything less than 1.5amps and it won't even start the charging process. Apparently the two spare 12v supplies for the old plenum fans kick out 5amp each - which is great news as you can run plenty from those. Here is what TheLaird said in a recent email - 'That plenum fan power supply should be available whilst the bike is charging, whilst it is running and for about ten minutes after switch off. The power, when available, is at a constant / regulated 12 volts continuous.' So thats great news for anybody wanting any additional 12v supplies for any accessories. Time to do some work on the bike now.
Allan

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Kocho
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

Thanks! Maybe I too will make these 12 accessible as accessory power, the next time I open-up the bike.

LeftieBiker
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

Did anyone ever follow up on this, and connect the accessory socket to one or both of the 12 volt fan power supplies? I'd like to find a way to use one - or preferably both - supplies to power an either/or circuit that would power the plenum fans or the accessory port, via a rider-activated A/B switch. If there is an issue with linking the two supplies, can both fans be powered by one of them (with the other going to the accessory port), or would the fan drain be too high? If the fans would just run more slowly on 5 amps total, that isn't necessarily a problem for me.

BLUESTREAK
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

2015-12-26 11.49.58_0.jpghi leftie, the (2) fans use 2.25 amps each for power so yes both fans can be used on one fan circuit. the glovebox lighter socket must be on a different circuit because it's always powered on when the keyswitch is on but the fan circuits are powered only full time with the proper software installed. hope this helps.COOPER.

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Re: What does the green wire do ?

My plan was to run a new circuit, using an A/B switch to power either the fans OR the accessory socket. I want control of the fans to be mainly in the rider's hands, to prevent hot air from being blown over a cooler pack in hot weather, when the bike leaves a cool garage. What I'll probably do, given the info above, is run the fans from one 12 volt circuit and the accessory socket from the other, with the socket being live whenever the lithium firmware allows, and the fans being on only when the FAN switch is on, and the lithium firmware has the power supplies energized.

You ran a bunch of LED marker lights, right? I'm also thinking of replacing some reflective stickers on the bike with something like that. Did you use the lighting circuit, or one of the 12 volt supplies? I suppose I could use a second switch to run either the accessory socket OR the auxiliary lights, but I'd prefer they came on and turned off with the headlight...

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Re: What does the green wire do ?

When you use the proper software the fan circuits will come on about 10 seconds after you turn on the key switch. I used one fan circuit to power the led lights and used one circuits to power the rear cooling fan after cutting off the front fan just in case I need some cooling in this FLORIDA heat. you can run a lot of led lights. according to "R" you have 10 amps.power between the (2) fan circuits.

LeftieBiker
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

I have the lithium firmware (Matt's, I think?), and IIRC my new bike had two fans installed aside by side, not front and rear - unless I misunderstand how they are oriented in the scooter. I have the fans sitting in the garage. Why did Vectrix provide two supplies, I wonder, if both fans can safely run on one of them?

antiscab
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

I have the lithium firmware (Matt's, I think?), and IIRC my new bike had two fans installed aside by side, not front and rear - unless I misunderstand how they are oriented in the scooter. I have the fans sitting in the garage. Why did Vectrix provide two supplies, I wonder, if both fans can safely run on one of them?

The version of firmware loaded may be the Laird's - if it is, it's unlikely the fans would be activated as all the leaf conversions assumed the fans would not be retained. It doesn't hurt to try though

Both fans power comes from the Vicor 12v DC-DC on the motor controller
There isn't enough spare capacity in the Vicor module to start both fans simultaneously so they are turned on one after the other.

to be honest, if you wanted to tap power from somewhere, I would solder directly to the 12v out from the vicor module

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

LeftieBiker
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

Both fans power comes from the Vicor 12v DC-DC on the motor controller
There isn't enough spare capacity in the Vicor module to start both fans simultaneously so they are turned on one after the other.

to be honest, if you wanted to tap power from somewhere, I would solder directly to the 12v out from the vicor module

I don't want to strain the power supply by switching both fans on at once, then, and it's a bit beyond my depth to do a delayed start on one. Maybe I'll just take the ICE bike on that mountain park trip. I want to preserve the Vectrix, not start letting the smoke out. ;-)

Kocho
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

Leftie,

You have David's firmware loaded in your bike (unless you have changed it to something else after you took ownership of my Vectrix). I do not know if this firmware activates the battery fans or not - you can call or email David though www.vectrixsupport.com and he can clarify this for you. He may also be able to modify the firmware to activate the fans as you need, if it does not already do it.

One more thing. For the fans to be effective, you need to ensure the intake ducts are not obstructed by the battery pack (which I think they may be in your installation, intentionally, to insulate the battery pack from the elements). And to make sure there is an exhaust path out of the battery compartment for any air that will come in through these vents or otherwise.

I have the lithium firmware (Matt's, I think?), and IIRC my new bike had two fans installed aside by side, not front and rear - unless I misunderstand how they are oriented in the scooter. I have the fans sitting in the garage. Why did Vectrix provide two supplies, I wonder, if both fans can safely run on one of them?

antiscab
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

I don't want to strain the power supply by switching both fans on at once, then, and it's a bit beyond my depth to do a delayed start on one.

Wait - I've missed something here
I thought you wanted 12v power for a phone charger or something

why are you reinstalling the fans?

The leaf modules don't self heat to a meaningful degree at the discharge rates a Vectrix can do (the limitation here is the motor controller)
They certainly don't self heat at the mere 10A a vectrix charges at

how much of a climb are you talking about for a mountain ride?

If you did want to keep the original fans, then yes I would get David at vectrix support to re-write the firmware

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

LeftieBiker
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

Sorry, I got "David" confused with "Matt" for some reason. The plan was to have the cooling fans available for the maybe 10% of Summer rides in which I'd be climbing a mountain in hot weather, reaching cooler air at the top, and for charging in a cooler garage a couple of hours after a ride in hot weather. (I was going to power the accessory socket with the higher amperage whenever the fans were off, but that's not critical.) If the cells really aren't going to heat under this load, then the fans are unnecessary. Maybe I'll put a temp sensor on one or two of the center cells in the pack, and see how much they actually heat this Summer.

Kocho
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

I think the main source of heat in the battery compartment during riding is the motor controller and the high-current wires going to it. These are all in the back of the battery compartment. The controller has its own cooling fan, but if I remember right, that is on the outside of the heat sink, not inside where the battery is. You may want to place one of the temp sensors near the cell closest to the controller (most towards the rear). You may get a fake reading If the surface temperature is temporarily high but the cell internal temperature is much lower though: the cells in my installation are sandwiched between good quality plywood, which should be a pretty good insulator for this potential heat source, but if you do measure higher cell temperature in that area, perhaps some additional layer of very thin rigid foam (1/4" or similar) temperature-resistant dielectric insulation might be able to separate the controller from the battery even better.

Sorry, I got "David" confused with "Matt" for some reason. The plan was to have the cooling fans available for the maybe 10% of Summer rides in which I'd be climbing a mountain in hot weather, reaching cooler air at the top, and for charging in a cooler garage a couple of hours after a ride in hot weather. (I was going to power the accessory socket with the higher amperage whenever the fans were off, but that's not critical.) If the cells really aren't going to heat under this load, then the fans are unnecessary. Maybe I'll put a temp sensor on one or two of the center cells in the pack, and see how much they actually heat this Summer.

Ingineer
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Re: What does the green wire do ?

FYI, power for the Plenum fan circuit comes from a separate DC-DC converter located inside the charger that takes pack voltage and outputs 12v. It also powers the fans on the charger itself. It does not come from the Vicor.

To test this, simply unplug the pack connection to the charger. You will notice the plenum fan output stops, even though the Vicor is still on. This is because the charger's DC-DC no longer has an input.

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