ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

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MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

If I have really posted this in the wrong forum please let me know where to stick it .. My 72vDC to 12vDC arrived from China I actually orderd two[2] as they were Cheap.
As we can see by the pictures they are small compared to the one that was on there. I do not read “Ping-Pong” but can see the volts are right, but the wire gauge is thinner on the 72v [in] on the new ones.
I don’t see any amp rating and the old[dead] one and it has a heat sink base, so obviously was set up to do some work. ..SO my question is I intended to run these Parallel running a dedicated headlight circuit on one allowing brighter headlight bulbs and the other to power to the minimum 12v system these have. This also has the benefit of having a semi redundant setup meaning that if one box fails I get home on the other without much messing around. Does anybody see a problem with this??

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MEroller
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I would be careful with those two small SUKUZU LED drivers. Normally all but the correct supply voltage should be crossed out, but that does not seem to be the case on these two units. I do not know of a single DC/DC-converter that has such a wide band of allowable input voltages from 36 right up to 72V?!

Output power is 12V x 10A = 120W per brick, so pick your setup that you do not overpower one of them. But as the small units are not galvanically isolated (only 3 wires, so a joint Battery and 12V Minus) they may not be compliant with parallel use. Do you have any specification for those two converters?

The old one was rated at more than double that, 300W, so that one's 72V cables as well as the output cable had better be thicker :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I would be careful with those two small SUKUZU LED drivers. Normally all but the correct supply voltage should be crossed out, but that does not seem to be the case on these two units. I do not know of a single DC/DC-converter that has such a wide band of allowable input voltages from 36 right up to 72V?!

Output power is 12V x 10A = 120W per brick, so pick your setup that you do not overpower one of them. But as the small units are not galvanically isolated (only 3 wires, so a joint Battery and 12V Minus) they may not be compliant with parallel use. Do you have any specification for those two converters?

The old one was rated at more than double that, 300W, so that one's 72V cables as well as the output cable had better be thicker :-)

Right now it has 72v going in and 12.1v coming out , I can’t do an amp load test right now as all the skins and lights are off but the horn is sure loud ! Best of all when I plugged them/it in the error light went out on the controller and everything worked …NiCe , the only heavy Amp draw I see is the headlights and I am converting them to the Xeon gas ones that Peak at 10/11 amps for .3 millisecs the drop down to 4/5 amps when warm all the indicators/turn signals are SMD with an electronic box along with the tail light . I am going to install an alarm with a 12v gel battery used as a back-up battery for alarm panels as a reserve to power the alarm when stationary .When the key is out there is no 12v exiting the DC/DC convertor .. I think have thought this through enough for now only road time will bring the facts in
I sincerely find this fun
ANY input welcome and really appreciated I am learning by the minute

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Phildiann Healey
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Thanks for your great pictures. I have just bought an Erider also but without batteries, controller or DC/DC converter. I am getting an idea from your pictures on where everything goes. I have spent most time trying to figure out which batteries to buy. I am tending currently to think Nissan Leaf modules are the best option for < $2500. Also having fun figuring it all out.
Phil

millzy555
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Hey mate, i recently bought the same converter. $24 off ebay. Plugged it in and everything works fine. Will report back after a full test run

MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Hey mate, i recently bought the same converter. $24 off ebay. Plugged it in and everything works fine. Will report back after a full test run

glad it worked for you mines still going great ! glad your post came up in the end too
K.

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Thanks for your great pictures. I have just bought an Erider also but without batteries, controller or DC/DC converter. I am getting an idea from your pictures on where everything goes. I have spent most time trying to figure out which batteries to buy. I am tending currently to think Nissan Leaf modules are the best option for < $2500. Also having fun figuring it all out.
Phil

That’s what its all about ..need any pictures ASK , you should contact millzy555 he was in the same position , same model etc and has just got his running . As to the Batteries that is a lot of money , look into using 18650 Cells way cheaper its all on Youtube https://youtu.be/TY7FwffZ5vc

Phildiann Healey
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Using 18650 cells would required about 400 cells for 72V/60aH at US$3.50 each = US$1400 (A$1860 + postage from China (will have to add GST as > $1000) + Hassle+++. The Nissan Leaf Cells I am buying cost A$1820 (inc GST) + A$200 postage from Brisbane + BMS A$600. I can't see how 18650 are cheaper.

MEroller
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I have just bought an Erider also but without batteries, controller or DC/DC converter. I am getting an idea from your pictures on where everything goes. I have spent most time trying to figure out which batteries to buy. I am tending currently to think Nissan Leaf modules are the best option for < $2500. Also having fun figuring it all out.

I assume you bought a Thunder? I have already done such research with Nissan Leaf Cells and the available space in my battery box, but those are simply huge. The only chance you might have is stacking two packs of 5 such cells lying sideways, with the space between the two stacks used for the cell conections. But the charger would no longer fit below the controller plate. It would look something like this:
Nissan_Leaf_Battery_in_Erider_Thunder.gif
Top left is the battery box view from above, front is right, the rear at left.
Bottom left is the side view, showing that the charger tray would intrude the front cell block. Bottom right shows the rear pack from the front.
If you have a TK2008/Lighting Bolt things may look a bit different, but probably not much less cramped. But you would have a 76V Battery with a whopping 72Ah of capacity :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

Phildiann Healey
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Yes, I planned 2 blocks of 5 cells laying side ways with terminals in centre. I won't be using on-board charger. I currently have the bike running with 3 x Lipo cells at 12Ah. These only weight 5 kg and the bike goes very well even with only 75 Volts. The Nissan cells will weight 38kg, I hope with the >80 Volts will make up for the extra mass.

Phildiann Healey
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I did look at 18650 cells but you need 400 cells at about $5 each (+ postage from china and ? BMS) (to give 72V & 60Ah) they are not cheap and wiring them up would be a hassle. Nissan leaf cells are $1820 + delivery from Brisbane ($200) + BMS about $600.

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I have a TD4 I don't know whether its a Thunder or lightning bolt?
The cells will fit on my measurements. The Leaf cells are only 60Ah.

LeftieBiker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

The Leaf cells are only 60Ah.

He may be talking about the cells from the 2016+ 30KWH pack.

MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Using 18650 cells would required about 400 cells for 72V/60aH at US$3.50 each = US$1400 (A$1860 + postage from China (will have to add GST as > $1000) + Hassle+++. The Nissan Leaf Cells I am buying cost A$1820 (inc GST) + A$200 postage from Brisbane + BMS A$600. I can't see how 18650 are cheaper.

simply answered source and supply . the method you have stated to obtain 18650 cells is the textbook method with all the information pulled of spread sheets. Have you ever sourced alternative methods of obtaining 18650 cells? these cells are the backbone of the battery industry and are used in my applications . the strange thing is if you buy them new in singles from China, That is the riskiest method as they are of dubious quality .. do your research or as the old saying goes "YouTube it"

MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I now have now completed 500 Kms on the bike now as daily transport and is rapidly becoming a mode of transport and not a Project. .. this is a good thing. Getting used to regenerative braking was a small learning curve and can only be described to some who has not experienced this, as to a 4 stroke 125cc motorbike when the engine quits at 50kmh and you are in top gear. On bends a low speed it makes you wake up, till it becomes “normal” I have read that this can be adjusted but this I have to learn

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Phildiann Healey
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I got my Erider registered today. Top speed is about 88kmh. I might have a look at the flux weakening adjustments which are supposed to increase top speed. I have regenerative breaking set at about 60 amps which means you don't need the disk brakes when cruising down most hills. Interesting when I do press brake levers this turns off regen. There must be some adjustment in the Sabvoton software to fix this. I can currently do about 15 km on my 12 ah lipo batteries (cruising around the hills back of Kiama NSW 60-80 kmh). I think I will keep them as a reserve capacity once I install my Nissan Leaf cells to give 72 ah and about 90-100 km. Do these top speed and range number seem normal?.

MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I got my Erider registered today. Top speed is about 88kmh. I might have a look at the flux weakening adjustments which are supposed to increase top speed. I have regenerative breaking set at about 60 amps which means you don't need the disk brakes when cruising down most hills. Interesting when I do press brake levers this turns off regen. There must be some adjustment in the Sabvoton software to fix this. I can currently do about 15 km on my 12 ah lipo batteries (cruising around the hills back of Kiama NSW 60-80 kmh). I think I will keep them as a reserve capacity once I install my Nissan Leaf cells to give 72 ah and about 90-100 km. Do these top speed and range number seem normal?.

Very impressive on more than one point... Knowledge, forwarding info and getting one. That been said I have had higher speeds and I have included a link of one lad getting his off the clock Please put some pictures up and Lets have a look . is yours the PDT version running the Gen4 controller? all ears Thanks K.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BHPbUeYYyw

MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

This was the Vis I meant to post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjbION8Ey1A Erider 8000w Scooter Speed Test

K

Phildiann Healey
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

My Erider before and after getting rid of pizza box and adding carpentry.
scooter.png
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Phildiann Healey
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I'm not sure what PTD refers to?. My bike didn't have a controller. I did look at buying a Sevcon Gen4 but Sevcon wouldn't give me the software licence to adjust parameters so I bought a Sabvoton SSC72150 (72V 150A). After figuring out how to get it to work without motor temp sensor, I have been very happy with this controller. Sabvoton in china didn't reply to my emails but luckily the Alibaba supplier was very helpful.

Lipo batteries have maximum voltage of 75 dropping to 60 when spent. I think the 20 Leaf cells with 84 volts dropping to 70 should give maximum speed 90-100kph.

MEroller
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I'm not sure what PTD refers to?.

Plug-in Drive Tech, an Israeli importer and configurer of erider China electric rides. They contributed a CAN box with additional features such as an enable button, and did have a Sevcon Gen4 or 6 Controller on board. But they seem to no longer exist...

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

millzy555
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I got my Erider registered today. Top speed is about 88kmh. I might have a look at the flux weakening adjustments which are supposed to increase top speed. I have regenerative breaking set at about 60 amps which means you don't need the disk brakes when cruising down most hills. Interesting when I do press brake levers this turns off regen. There must be some adjustment in the Sabvoton software to fix this. I can currently do about 15 km on my 12 ah lipo batteries (cruising around the hills back of Kiama NSW 60-80 kmh). I think I will keep them as a reserve capacity once I install my Nissan Leaf cells to give 72 ah and about 90-100 km. Do these top speed and range number seem normal?.

Those speeds seem alot higher to those that im achieving. I think the sabvoton/ Sevcon controllers pump out a few more amps/ have the overspeed feature. I was getting 65-70km/h before running out of room in the street using a 80amp 60v controller. Will try the 100amp 72v larger one i have before selling my project

Phildiann Healey
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Accidentally ran the erider yesterday until batteries were dead I.e. had to push it home. This resulted in 1 of my lipo cells being unable to hold a charge. So this is the practical result of all I have read about the need to keep the battery between 10-90 % charge.live and learn!

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Thanks for above Genius who repair our PDT scooters,I appologize to troublesome everybody so much.

Now Erider reunited with Efun and share technology and experience each other,we have improved battery,DC converter and controller ...

The newest 6000W Lighting Bolt with top speed 105km/h just arrive in Austria last week www.bikemite.at,there are still some stock for sale.

And new 2016 9000W PUMA with top speed 120km/h have arrive in Germany and Austria too ,welcome to www.trinity-ev.de

and www.elomo.at

chil wee battery module.jpg
Belgium 2.jpg
QQ截图20160728225321.png
white blue and green color 3.jpg
new PUMA.jpg
white blue and green color.jpg

millzy555
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Accidentally ran the erider yesterday until batteries were dead I.e. had to push it home. This resulted in 1 of my lipo cells being unable to hold a charge. So this is the practical result of all I have read about the need to keep the battery between 10-90 % charge.live and learn!

You dont want to mess around with lipo if you dont know the consequences....Dont go below 3.65v per cell and charger to 4.1 for longevity. I'd keep an eye on those cells from now on. Damage has been done.

MrTinker
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MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Accidentally ran the erider yesterday until batteries were dead I.e. had to push it home. This resulted in 1 of my lipo cells being unable to hold a charge. So this is the practical result of all I have read about the need to keep the battery between 10-90 % charge.live and learn!

Wow .. and Oh Dear!
This has NOT happened to me Yet Thank Fully, I have also been informed that the PDT shuts off at a certain Point to save the batteries, this part I haven’t learnt the full details yet . My background is more Mechanical not High-end electrical and I need to get up to speed and do some Nerding. I am looking in the near future on installing an independent charge and discharge monitor as the one on the bike is basic. I can go for a good run and if I don’t shut off and keep going it stays on full bars . But if a go only a few Kilometers shut off and come back to it and turn on I am 2 to 3 bars down? When I get home it takes 15 mins to get the green Light back on. if I don’t use the bike the Voltage barely moves over the days ?? So I don’t if the batteries are old or the monitor/ wire connections are dodgy. On your bike is the cell totally DOA [Dead] or can u mange to drag it back ?
K.

MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Who is Genius? Please advise as I have a PDT spec Scooter and any information is valuable , I would also like to know where can we buy the body panels, seats, brake pads and Parts . all the none EV [electrical equipment]
K.

Thanks for above Genius who repair our PDT scooters,I appologize to troublesome everybody so much.

Now Erider reunited with Efun and share technology and experience each other,we have improved battery,DC converter and controller ...

The newest 6000W Lighting Bolt with top speed 105km/h just arrive in Austria last week www.bikemite.at,there are still some stock for sale.

And new 2016 9000W PUMA with top speed 120km/h have arrive in Germany and Austria too ,welcome to www.trinity-ev.de

and www.elomo.at

chil wee battery module.jpg
Belgium 2.jpg
QQ截图20160728225321.png
white blue and green color 3.jpg
new PUMA.jpg
white blue and green color.jpg

MrTinker
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Oh Dear ..mine came with a Pizza Box on the back too , the rack looked like it was made in a Black Smiths in the Bush. It would have weighed down the average cart horse down, fortunately the body work stayed factory all I need now is the light weight factory Rack .. Just don’t know where to buy one from
bit free advice keep UV protectant like Armorall or any good car wax on the screen. they get brittle

My Erider before and after getting rid of pizza box and adding carpentry.
scooter.png
IMG_20160903_174928[1].jpg

Phildiann Healey
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I could initially charge the cell to about 3.5V but it has since dropped to 0.005V and won't charge. I removed it from the 6S pack and it is working ok as a 5S pack. I have learnt a great deal about battery tech last 2 months and now know why by Ebike batteries haven't lasted very long.

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