Hub Motor Kit Opinion

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ngocthach1130
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Hub Motor Kit Opinion

Hi I was wondering what everyone think of this kit
http://www.poweridestore.com/Hub-Motor-Kits/Rear-Dual-Speed-Kits/Model-406409-Rear-Dual-Speed-500W-Hub-Motor-Kit

I'm thinking of converting a mountain bike with the above kit. This is because mountain bike would have full suspension since i live in a pothole ridden area. Only problem with mountain bike and this kit is where to mount the battery. The frame is usually huge and not much room for battery.

davew
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

If you could post a picture or at least the make/model of your bike we could probably give you better advice. Mountain bikes and conversion kits are tricky. I have a fully suspended Specialized with a fairly radical frame and I have no clue how to put a motor on it. The Bionx nearly fit, but the water-bottle mount for the battery wasn't quite in the right place. That's probably for the best because I wasn't wild about having by battery back dangling in the splash path of the front wheel. On the other hand I have an old Trek cross bike that fits everything. No suspension on that one, though.

One thing you might consider is picking up a cheap donor bike. The big box stores have inexpensive bikes with front suspensions that fit a variety of kits.

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ngocthach1130
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

//images.craigslist.org/0101000102000103092007100100c229a09d0f3ef3d100ebdf.jpg)
That would be it Magna Excitor 26". No disk brake. Barely any room for battery.

Abneycat
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

Since my conversion candidate is also very similar:
//visforvoltage.org/files/u651/tmpphpW47bnj.jpg)

i'm going to chime in on this one. In regards to the bike, Y-frames are very stiff and provide great power transition and response.

They don't have a lot of utility though. No frame bag space, no full duty rear rack. Its hard to pack things around on them. A bit against the ideals of using an electric for practical use. This is the reason i've been considering going with a Bike Friday or a Dahon instead of the Fuji 2 lately.

I would consider that bike to be a no go for the conversion you're looking for. You have a big problem in that your frame is full suspension with no frame bag space. That means your only mounting option is a seatpost rack. A seatpost rack will support a nice light lithium battery, but putting an SLA pack inside one is suicide, particularily since you mentioned potholes. Personally, i've crushed a 75kg rack going off drops and climbing things before, a 20-30lb seatpost rack would crumple holding an SLA array. Those racks are just not designed for heavy duty use. Also, on the price range of that bike I wouldn't consider the componentry or brakes to be a safe choice for adding additional speed and stress.

Consider a hardtail if you're looking at a lower price range. You'll find much nicer/more reliable components on a hardtail under $500 than you will on an FS bike. They also almost univerally have great pack-mule use, being able to hold heavy duty racks and bags. That holds true almost all the way up the price ranges, really.

If you know your stuff, going out to look at a used bike isn't a bad idea either. I picked up that Fuji 2 for $450, and its got about $1500 in components on it.

As for the kit, I can't give anything but praise to Crystalyte. I've only owned one e-bike, but it was a Crystalyte and proved very worthy for the price. My girlfriend owns it now and loves it.

Project goal: Make an electric fly. Without wings.

ngocthach1130
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

awesome thanks for the reply. Yeah i considered that bike because someone is selling it used for 60 bucks. So that hub kit is my choice then.
I saw this on this forum. Look perfect. But i can't justify spending more than 200 for a new one. Trying to find a used one with similar styling. Pref disk brake front.
//walford.ca/images/mountain_bike/2K5_Blast_Side_460.jpg)

williammcc1
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

I think you will find the hub motor very nice as I use a Wilderness Energy on my home made semi bent. The only thing I would wish for is a geared hub with no noise but that wont happen soon so I will keep what I have. I have my batts mounted in front of my back wheel as there is plenty of room there but that would not work on a diamond frame.
You might want to try nicads if you have the money as they can be found in a diamond shape just perfect for a regular bike.

Abneycat
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

awesome thanks for the reply. Yeah i considered that bike because someone is selling it used for 60 bucks. So that hub kit is my choice then.
I saw this on this forum. Look perfect. But i can't justify spending more than 200 for a new one. Trying to find a used one with similar styling. Pref disk brake front.

Have you looked on your local craigslist? Usually there are some good finds on there.

Project goal: Make an electric fly. Without wings.

friggerand
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

There has been some debate as of late as to the effectiveness of dual speed motors. The prevailing feeling right now is that the switch simply makes it a lower speed motor, and most have reported that they saw absolutely no increase in torque and acceleration...they just went slower without any other advantages. I've never used the dual speed motor, so this isn't coming from me...just what I understand from several others... I've only used the Golden Motors 500W kit and the crystalyte 5 series which I use exclusively now, so maybe dual motors do what they say, but I'm personally leaning towards it not being all that useful.

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ngocthach1130
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gear shift

I'm wondering do you guys use twist throttle grip or thumb throttle grip. If so where do you put the gear shift for the dérailleur? isn't it usually on the right side? So does that mean you swap it to the left and the throttle is put on the right? Correct me if i'm wrong since i'm not familiar with multispeed bikes

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Re: gear shift

I'm wondering do you guys use twist throttle grip or thumb throttle grip. If so where do you put the gear shift for the dérailleur?

I like the combo of grip shift and thumb throttle. I have this setup on both my Wilderness Energy and BionX kits. I especially like the Bionx setup because the throttle is optional. You wouldn't think it would be a big deal, but in January my throttle thumb can get pretty cold regardless of what kind of gloves/mittens I am wearing.

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ngocthach1130
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

uh i'm still confuse. Does that mean you use both twist throttle and thumb throttle? Is that standard for the Bionx kit? Or did you splice both throttle together into one connector for the speed control. Still, where does the gear shift goes. The one which will control the dérailleur. Btw my plan for the electric bike now is using the Phoenix 408 motor, with the 35amp controller. I'll use 4 dewalt battery with 2-2 layout for 72v. My round trip to work and back is about 4 miles so who care about range. I'm thinking of using a Schwinn S-60 full suspension mountain bike.

reikiman
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Re: gear shift

I'm wondering do you guys use twist throttle grip or thumb throttle grip. If so where do you put the gear shift for the dérailleur?

Both of my electric bicycles have a thumb throttle. The usefulness of that varies based on the geometry, as you imply.

One of these is a Charger bicycle. They were originally pedelec style, no throttle, but I goofed up the original controller and rebuilt the drive system with a 4QD UNI-8 controller. That bike uses a 0-5k thumb throttle. Due to the placement of the doohickies on the handlebar it's a pain in the wrist to reach the throttle. I almost said pain in the butt, but the pain really is in the wrist. I'm looking at alternatives right now.

The other is an Electra Townie 21 (the same as DaveW's Black Moria; but mine is blue) with a wilderness energy front hub motor. Again it's a thumb throttle. But in this case the layout of the doohickies on the handbar makes it work okay. Unfortunately the battery pack I'd use for that bike is still being repaired and I cannot ride it.

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Abneycat
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Re: gear shift

On my last bike we managed to make a half-twist throttle fit in nicely with the shifters, but they were single lever shifters a bit like rapidfires. My new bike *has* rapidfires, which are almost incompatible with all of these throttles, as they're wide on the inside and require considerable space for the toggles on the outside, leaving little room for a throttle at all.

If you have these shifters, you may find it hard to mount your throttle. Many bikes come with grip shifters though, which as its been pointed out, fit really nicely with a thumb throttle.

Project goal: Make an electric fly. Without wings.

ngocthach1130
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

hmmm i was hoping i would be able to use a twist grip throttle instead of thumb but it seem from the majority thumb throttle is preferred. Guess i'll settle with that. Plus people seem to have a point. On my scooter on full throttle of the twist type it cause the hand to be at an awkward position when it come to reaching for the brake. Thanks for all the inputs guys.

Abneycat
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

My round trip to work and back is about 4 miles so who care about range. I'm thinking of using a Schwinn S-60 full suspension mountain bike.

Looking at that bike, you could probably squeeze a pack or two into the centre of your frame, but then you'd have to pretty much use a seatpost rack and it would eliminate any carrying capacity the bike would have. That Schwinn s-60 is better than the other one you posted, undoubtedly: The Magna would have been a death trap.

But, by the time you're looking at putting out $250-300 for a bike, another $50 can get you a starter hardtail from a dedicated bike company like Kona or Gary Fisher at an LBS, which would come with service and support. Hardtails for the same price come with better components on them. If the full-suspension is what you want then there's no reason to go against it, but, just offering a second take :)

Personally, i'm eyeing up one of these for conversion:
http://www.dahon.com/us/cadenza.htm

Project goal: Make an electric fly. Without wings.

ngocthach1130
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

Yeah i'd love to find a hardtail like you said. But i notice i'm rough with bikes or scooter. Plus the area where i live isn't a high bike riding area, so it's hard finding a good used hardtail. The Schwinn S60 is found on ebay in NYC, it'll be an hour drive to pick it up. But i'm willing to make the trip. Another reason is i'm looking toward front disk brake. Granted i can buy a used mountain bike with great frame and replace the fork. But that's more work i have to look into. I'll just look at this bike as a starter. If chance arise in future where i can find less pothole ridden neighborhood and inspiration for another EV bike, i'll jump on the hardtiail. BTW abney, your full suspension EV look great. That's my semi goal at the moment

Abneycat
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

Thanks! Well, there's absolutely nothing wrong with moving the kit between bikes either, so don't feel pressured to find "the one" right away. The plan is to put the hub on the Fuji 2 for now, and pick up whats looking to be a Dahon Cadenza later, although still waiting to see the bike in person to decide.

The Schwinn looks like it would make a good bike for rolling around on some light trails, and its always nice to have a backup, so it wouldn't be a loss if you ever moved your electric onto another frame.

Project goal: Make an electric fly. Without wings.

davew
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

uh i'm still confused. Does that mean you use both twist throttle and thumb throttle?

I was not clear. What I mean was a combination of a grip shift for the gears and a thumb control for the throttle.

//electricrider.net/files/bionxGrip.jpg)
This is the Bionx / Trek setup.

//electricrider.net/files/weGrip.jpg)
And this is the Wilderness Energy / Townie setup.

You can see the controls and shifters are different, but they fit together in a similar way. In each case the thumb throttle is within easy reach.

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chas_stevenson
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

Here is how I did mine.

I used a twist grip throttle with rapid fire shifters along with an additional 3-speed shifter, on the left, for the transmission the motor uses.

A picture is worth a thousand words,
Chas S.

Abneycat
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

Chas, can you provide a closer picture of the right side throttle/shifter? I don't seem to have nearly the same clearance, but its a different shifter as well.

Still, maybe you've done something I missed.

Project goal: Make an electric fly. Without wings.

chas_stevenson
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

I had to look at several different shifter styles until I found this one. You are correct I did have to trim the shifter lever a small amount. I took about 2.5 cm (1/10th of an inch) off the inside edge of the thumb section of the lever. It has not caused me any problems.

Chas S.

Abneycat
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

Aah, there's the difference. The styling on my rapidfire brings the lever much closer to the bar, so its no good in this scenario: i'd have to trim 3/4 of the lever off to clear the throttle, it'd be much too flimsy/unsafe at that point.

Project goal: Make an electric fly. Without wings.

chas_stevenson
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

There was one other brand I was looking at that if I could have removed the lever, flipped it over, and reattached it I think it would have worked. I am not sure which brand you have but you might look at it to see if this is an option. The parts normally stack on a square shaft and can be taken apart and reordered as well. If your lever could be moved to the farthest location on the square shaft it may give you enough clearance minimal trimming may be needed.

Just an idea,
Chas S.

friggerand
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

I only use twist grip throttles. For the style of ebikes I do, thumb throttle just doesn't make the cut. I've done several things...throttle on right, gripshift gears on left....throttle on right with a modified shifter on right with it... throttle on left, shifter on right.... I've even done throttle on right, and taken the shifter right off the handlebars mounting to the side of the "tank"...kind of like a suicide shifter setup..... If you really want to use a twist grip, you can make it happen... personally, I hate thumb throttles...they aren't comfortable and you end up with a majorly sore thumb afterwards...but, that's me.

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ngocthach1130
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

Few questions for you guys. How did you guy solder up wires to those Dewalt packs? I opened them apart and soldered 10 gauges wires to those tab and i had trouble closing them up again. The wires is just way too thick. Also i think i need a new soldering iron. Those radio shack one are cheap and they don't get hot enough. Do you think 12Gauge will suffice. I only used 10gauge because it is recommended when using 45A anderson connector.

On another note the 408 Crystalyte hub came today. but when i mount it it seem the wheel is off center. Picture 1. So when i put on the brake one side have too much clearance and the other not enough. The brake still rub against the rim. Picture 2. Any way i can push the hub a little over. I tried giving the hub part a little push but it might need more than a tap, but i'm not keen on beating on it just yet. I don't want to hassle poweridestores for a replacement. But if it come to that it can't be help. That and is that gap common to the 408 hub or is it just my poor luck this time.
//www.fileden.com/files/2006/7/2/103076/wheel.jpg)
//www.fileden.com/files/2006/7/2/103076/brake.jpg)

Buckeroo Bob
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

Why not remove the brake pad and shave down the spacer about halfway. No need to bend the frame then. Just my 2 cents worth.brake.jpg

QA
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Re: Hub Motor Kit Opinion

I require a motor kit that provides good starting torque for my bicycle project. My research so far leads me towards a geared hub motor and it appears there are only two; EV Tech from Texas Electricbikes.com and Nano Hub but available only in UK. Both kits with Lithium ion batteries will cost over $1,ooo bucks plus shipping. Does anyone know of cheaper kits out there? Do geared Hub systems really cost that much more than the non-geared Crystalites and Wilderness ones?

Secondly, anyone know of pedal torque sensor kits as well?

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