Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

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raynman75006
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Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

Perhaps there is something easy that I am not seeing, but my XM-2000 isnt working again. The only thing that changed since the last time I used it was that it rained. the horn, lights, etc. function, but the scooter will not go, the wheel will not turn. the brake light comes on when I press the brake. But the diagnostic light does not come on at all.

Any ideas? I have tried everything from the first post about my dead XM-2000.

raynman75006
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

I just wanted to update this post, even though noone responded. I have been working with usaTracy, who no longer posts here, and found out the hard way that the XM-2000 will apparently fill with water, from normal use. I opened the controller up and found that it was full of water, and that the water was stopping the scooter from working as described above.

I have never driven it in the rain, but I have left it outside while it rained (as described above). I just thought rain would be a normal consideration of the makers of the scooter.

But it turns out that even those who dont leave it out in teh rain have problems like this too. usatracy opened his up too and found about a half a liter in his. and he has never left it out in the rain.

So, moral of the story is, loosen one or both of the screws inside the controller to let out any accumulated water in your XM-2000!

andrew
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

I thought you were trying to be funny. How could that happen?

I'd use some silicon caulk or something to try and seal it. Even ductape will do for a quick fix.

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
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davew
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

So did drying out the controller restore your XM-2000 to life?

The controller should be tight to the weather. The one reason I never took off the speed limiter on my Emax was I wasn't totally sure I could get the controller back together and water tight. As another poster mentioned, however, there are all sorts of products for this. Liquid tape (a silicone compound I believe) is very good for this.

This is definitely not a problem to ignore. A lot of water will stop the controller dead as you discovered, but even a little will start some nasty corrosion.

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raynman75006
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

I got the scooter working once, after palying with it for a while. but now it is flashing either 7 or 9 times. It is not going... blah

spinningmagnets
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

I don't own a scooter or plan on owning one, but a wet controller caught my attention (for E-Bike project). I am still learning, but based on my experience in other areas, I would want the aluminum body fins to get plenty of cooling airflow (rather than encapsulating the cont).

Hmmm, I may incorporate a fan for the motor from the start, perhaps the fan can blow across an encapsulated cont on its way to the motor?

Humid air can get inside some "tight-looking" places, so I think I might put a tiny drain hole near the bottom (affected by mounting, of course). Humid air can get into places that condensed (at night) moisture may not be able to get OUT from, so water can accumulate (not rain, but if you fix humidity condensate drainage, rain is easy).

For a moistened cont, meybe flush with a bottle of alcohol. I've "heard" this may clean the invisible residue that shorts out wetted electronics. Supposedly alcohol will evaporate without residue, and displace any water in nooks. Haven't tried this myself...

spinningmagnets
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

OOOPS! I'm sure you already know this, but for lurkers reading, disconnect battery, and remove cont from scooter before flushing with alcohol on the bench.

Ensure the cont is conpletely dry by flipping it and warming it with a hair dryer. A tiny amount of water mineral residue can short an electronic function, but provide much resistance to flow, so no fire or smoke.

raynman75006
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

Looks like water getting into the controller like it did left a bunch of green goup. O opened up the controller, cleaned it all out and now the scooter iw working like new. yay!

andrew
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

For a moistened cont, meybe flush with a bottle of alcohol. I've "heard" this may clean the invisible residue that shorts out wetted electronics. Supposedly alcohol will evaporate without residue, and displace any water in nooks. Haven't tried this myself...

I've used alcohol many times to revive electronics. It works best if you have a toothbrush or paintbrush, and can get both sides of a board.

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
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davew
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

I agree that alcohol (either isopropyl, ethanol, or methanol) is best. You need something that can dissolve whatever the water washed in there plus leave the electronics dry when it evaporates. I have used isopropyl many times myself to revive dunked electronics. Alcohol is also pretty good about not dissolving the plastics and the glues that hold the components together. I would recommend avoiding synthetics like tetrachloroethylene (perchloroethylene), carbon tetrachloride, toluene, or acetone as they aren't good for you, the environment, or the electronics.

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RedKing73
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Scooter + Rain + Mountain Chen = Dead. XM-2000

Hi, I pointed out this glaring QC flaw with this model to Mountain Chen well over a year ago when anyone who had sense stopped buying from Erato / Mountain Chen in UK or Ireland. Then US market started opening for Erato, around the time that eFun (his brother's outfit) split away from Mountain.

And then months later, I get promotional spammy emails telling me (and others) that they have a new improved waterproof motor.

The XM-2000 is a fine looking bike. Its no different in design than petrol models advertised by CBC Power and others. hey in fact, the electronics might even be fine and pushing the limits out on what can be achieved.

But the quality control and the management ethics were not fine. In over a year of pleading for parts, I did not receive any. Only offers of spare parts when I ordered more stock.

Xtreme sell a great product at a great price. But I do not think it is a stretch to say let the buyer beware of Mountain Chen and anyone that is associated with his practice of the business principles of Quality Control and Customer Service. That includes ZAP, greenemotors and xtreme. Its easy to litter the internet with forward-looking SEC statements. Its quite another thing to believe in EVs, live and breath them and SUPPORT them. Take a look at Rick in Gorilla Vehicles www.gorillavehicles.com for a guy who walks the walk, has testimonials out his ears and vehicles providing trouble-free service for coming on 6 years! Thats what well-engineered EVs should do.

On what level of insanity is a waterproofed controller deemed an 'improvement'? Alongside brake cables that don't snap perhaps? And when they're still being shipped 1 year later after two national distributors ceases dealing with you, what does that say about your business morals?

Maybe Mujin 'QC' Chen feels it doesn't rain so much in most of USA, but it sure does in UK & Ireland.

The lofty attacks on eFun, emax and Kasea variously in this board by Mountain are truly insincere and the old saying about throwing stones when you are (ankle-deep) in the mother of all greenhouses comes to mind....

As I've said all along on this forum, the Erato bike in all its various badges is a great fun bike but I wouldn't be holding your breath for backup from the manufacturer. Unfortunately for middlemen, they keep being snared by Mountain's latest export venture and stock up on great-looking, great-performing but very poorly supported electric mopeds.

My 2 (euro) cents worth (and can be fully backed up by emails; sent privately to moderators, never to be published of course)

reikiman
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Re: Scooter + Rain + Mountain Chen = Dead. XM-2000

RedKing, amen (mostly). These vehicles run high amounts of power and clearly water could be catastrophic.

Rain is one of the larger issues I'm thinking about with the motorcycle I'm building ... I want to be able to ride it safely without worrying about rain. Somehow that means covering all wiring, not just the controller but also the battery pack, so that it's not affected by water.

But your posting also makes me think of an early problem faced by Xebra owners.

They were having Xebra's cutting out strangely and discovered that it happened because of moisture buildup in the controller. The controller in question is an Alltrax and if you look at the Alltrax website you'll find some pictures of them driving a golfcart as if it were a whitewater raft, that is driving it downstream in a river, and another picture pouring water over the controller. Alltrax designed it so the circuit board is embedded in solid epoxy. So how could an alltrax be affected by water? It was tricky but had to do with the controller placement but I don't remember all the details. Details can be read on the www.xebraworld.com website or the Xebra_EV group on Yahoo!Groups.

Somehow our cars are so safe in the rain we don't think about the possibility of problem. But the Ford Escort I used to own had its ignition system die twice due to rain getting into the engine compartment.

So.. it's time to leave for work - and drive through a pouring rainstorm to get there.

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RedKing73
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Re: Scooter + Rain + Mountain Chen = Dead. XM-2000

Thanks Reikiman, I agree completely with you. Best wishes on the project, btw.

Any motorcyclist can expect heavy surface water to knock out an engine from time to time. Happens to motorbike couriers regularly. Its the fact that the XM2K is suffering from a known major design flaw over a year after it scuppered earlier European import opportunities for Chen that really galls me. Parking it in the rain, like raynman and USAtracy give an example of, should not be sufficient to collect water as we all know. Although bikes are always best out of rain!

Perhaps 'they' can export the remaining spare controller parts as extreme weather water canisters to arid regions of the Earth. Its truly surprising how much they can hold... :-)

ArcticFox
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Re: Scooter + Rain + Mountain Chen = Dead. XM-2000

As a dealer I have to say, the QC on these items suck. Period. Never in all my life have I had so many issues come up from "shipping damages" to lack of replacement parts (were there ever any?). To give you an idea, I have copied of over 200 emails from customers who had problems with just the XM-2000! It's a big disappointment to have something on the market with so much potential, only to have it fall flat on its face (literally) right out of the delivery truck.

I am still wondering whose bright idea was it to just put these in a box without any padding, support or even strapping it down to the pallet. I am also disappointed in my distributors' lack of inspections of these before they even leave their warehouse. If I buy something that's "new", I'd like to receive it in "new" condition - not busted up, scratched, missing parts and replacements out of stock. I also don't care for the idea of my customers having to disassemble and reassemble their new item just to make it work. That's bullshit, plain and simple.

I am doing what I can to improve the way my customers receive their items, and how they're treated through customer service. I am a business person. I expect my suppliers to think professionally. I expect their manufacturers to build my products professionally and with foresight into what the real world is like. Failure to waterproof an external electronic component? Apparently there's no rain in China - today I'll blame Global "Environmental Changes" (read; politically correct, "Warming"). Anyway...

So Mujin [Molehill] Chen, keep cutting corners (I don't care what kind of excuse you have this time), and I will take my business elsewhere and so will others. Period. The next time I get a complaint from one of my customers about an item that originally came from your company, and if I can't find where the problem originated (everyone likes to pass the buck in this business), I'll just go right to the jugular: Mujin.

Read this:

首先质量!

Got it?

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Scooter + Rain + Mountain Chen = Dead. XM-2000

And then there was one...

Am I the only person who posts on this board that still thinks the XM2000 was good value for money? I'm not trying to sell you (there aren't any more to sell).

I don't disagree that all the things above are certainly "sub optimal", and I fully agree with Caveat Emptor in all transactions. In fact there are several more "gotchas" that can be listed for the XM2K. But folks, you get what you pay for, despite what the salesman (Chen) on the other side of the conversation might say.

So, redking & AF, sure take your business elsewhere if you want a more "complete" product or "better" QC. However, you'll pay more. If you pay bottom dollar even at wholesale then you should have expected to receive bottom dollar product and service.

Personally I don't want a metal frame shipped to me (I would like a little more space around the bike and it strapped down - or maybe a BOAT LOAD of bio-degradable packing peanuts).

As for the disingenuous cries of Mountain Chen - he's a salesman he's supposed to tell you his "stuff" is better than "their stuff". That's what sales is ALL about. Sure, Don Harmon can add "JUST TRYING TO HELP" as his signature, he's just taking a slightly more subtle approach on working to persuade you that "his stuff" is better than "their stuff". Some sales folks play the game with finesse, others beat you over the head. Others are about as phony as a 3 dollar bill. Bottom line is that it's just noise and can mostly be ignored if you want to.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

raynman75006
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Re: Scooter + Rain + Mountain Chen = Dead. XM-2000

Well, John, Ill sell you mine for a little less than what I paid for it. Any takers? every one of my 5 batteries have been recently replaced, so you basically get the same scooter I got when i opened it up.

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Re: Scooter + Rain + Mountain Chen = Dead. XM-2000

Sorry dude - but the batteries you got as replacements are the same as the ones I have. As usatracy has extensively documented they are not up to the task and probably should never have been fitted. So, the batteries aren't worth anything to me. If these were real SP27's (or whatever the Greensaver model number is) I might actually have taken you up on the offer.

Anyone who buys this bike would be well advised to either (a) budget for better batteries or (b) only use it for short trips with low accel (and fit a Cycle Analyst to help ensure that).

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

greatguru
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Re: Scooter + Rain = Dead. XM-2000 inoperational (again).

I just had a similar thing happen to me. Rode the scooter through the pouring rain, parked under a roof. Then when I wanted to ride back home, scooter was dead and light flashed 12 times. So I just left it there to dry and returned the next day with tools prepared for a long and tedious repair, but it was already working again. Lucky me!

XM-2000, Voloci, custom electric bicycle
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