Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

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alliemac9
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Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

Hello all...
I posted once about this just before the site crashed, so I can't find the post or the helpful responses I received. So, here I am again with my slightly unique scenario:

I have a dog powered scooter (www.dogpoweredscooter.com - lots of photos) that I would like to add a hub motor to. I currently use it in the two-dog, side-by-side configuration that you see on the website, but may also use in an in-line config when my boys get better at this. The scooter itself can be seen at http://www.blueriverbikes.com/Sidewalker_willy_kick_scooter.shtml

My boys (dogs) aren't as good about pulling as I thought they would be, so they need some motivation to keep moving - hence my interest in a hub motor. Since there is one on each side (which increases stability) there is not much room for me to kick. I do, but it's not the most comfortable/natural motion since I'm afraid of kicking my dog Toby in the face.

My motivation is torque, not speed (which is good since I have 20" tires). I just want to maintain a dog-trot speed. I live in Denver, CO. There are plenty of hills around, but where I typically ride, they are not too significant.

So, what would you buy? I'd love to hear the "limitless budget" option as well as the "best value" option. While a kit seems a lot easier for someone new to this stuff, if someone has another recommendation I would be open to that as well. My husband and I are both mechanically inclined, if that helps in your recommendations.

Here are the components as I am aware of them:

Brushed/brushless motor (I was leaning toward brushless for better performance and longer life)
Voltage 24/36?
Battery type? Charger?
Make/manufacturer?
Controller, etc.?
I have 20" wheels and would love to get a kit where the motor is already mounted in a rim.
I think I would prefer a thumb throttle but could be swayed on that, I'm sure.

Does anyone have suggestions on where to mount the batteries? I assumed I would rig a bike rack off the rear tire, but haven't looked into it yet.

In terms of usage, I have nordic-type mutts (read very furry - hence my thought they would be good pullers, they look like sled dogs). Anyway, I'd love to use this daily or every other day during the winter and spring/fall as long as the weather is cool enough. I will likely not use it as much during the summer when it just gets too hot to have them trot for any period of time. Not sure if that impacts decisions about batteries...

I'm looking forward to hearing what people suggest!
Thanks!
Allie

LinkOfHyrule
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

OMG! LOOOOL! That is one of the most hilariously awesome things I have ever seen!

Anyway, the motor is really up to you. If you only want to maintain dog-trot speed, you don't need a super high performance hub motor.

Voltage depends on the motor. You don't want it to be running in an inefficient powerband. I don't know the rpm/V rating of the motor your going to choose, so I can't really say. Requires a little math to figure out.

Battery wise, you have a few options. The cheapest is SLA. They are big, heavy, not very energy dense, and don't have a very long cycle life, but if it's all you can afford it's not a big deal. Most still go with SLA.
Little higher end is NiMH. Sort of middle ground. The are smaller, lighter, hold more charge, and last longer than SLA.
The high end stuff is lithium. Very pricey, but they are very energy dense, lightweight, and supposedly last a very long time. They should be coming down in price relatively soon.

I really can't reccomend any chargers, as I don't have much experience with the different types/brands.

A Crystalyte controller isn't the cheapest (I think), but it should do you right.

Your choice of throttle. Thumb, full twist, or half twist.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who REALLY wants to see this when you're done ;).

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contai

ngocthach1130
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

you need those electric cow prod. Jab the dog with it and he'll mush. ^__^.

All jokes aside. You can get full built scooter for 200-250 Check thesuperkids.com for the izip or schwinn scooter. Try to get the sprocket version not direct drive. WIth the sprocket version you can get freewheeling pinion gear which won't bog down the scooter when you're not applying throttle. With the direct drive when you don't apply throttle the gear hold back the scooter and your dog will be over worked.

With that said i don't think it's hard to adapt those U shape bar on these scooter.

alliemac9
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

:D
Yeah, I know it's hilarious....people think I'm a little nuts. The reality is, at this point in my life my dogs are my kids. So, I spoil them and want them to be healthy. I see this as great exercise that is at their pace, not mine (i.e. even a fast person walk, and I do walk fast, is not up to a dog trot; and I think biking is too fast - also a bit unsafe with two big, prey-driven dogs in a wildlife infested neighborhood). Soooooo, I bought a dog scooter.

I already own the scooter - so buying a pre-motorized one isn't my best option at this point, but I agree with you; if I had known what I know now, that may have been a better path.

As for the setup...ideally, I'd love for someone to say: "you should buy XYZ kit - it comes in a 20" size and is more than sufficient for your needs". It's not that simple, though, is it? ;)

ngocthach1130
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

yes unfortunately in your case spending that 300 on just the scooter is a bad move. But you're not hopeless. What size wheel are those? You could checkout poweridestore.com or ebike.ca for small motor. I'm guessing something like a 408 or 409. The front wheel look like 20" so you could get that kit. Since you're not looking to go fast you can just use a 36v20a controller. To minimize weight you can buy your self 1 dewalt battery pack and run your system on that. Now i'm not sure if the dog will doing much pulling or are you just keeping up in pace with him/her. If the dog is doing some pulling then you might get by with 1battery pack. If you're just trying to keep up with the dog then by all mean get Lead acid battery.

I actually saw someone trying to walk their dog using a kick scooter before. It's not power but the dog was doing the pulling. It was one of those golden retriever so it's massive enough.

ngocthach1130
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

also check goldenmotor.com they have cheaper kit than crystalyte.

alliemac9
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

Cool. Thanks for the suggestions.

The wheels are 20".

My dogs are 62 lbs and 75 lbs. They do pull to some extent, but don't seem to have the full on "sled dog" drive like you see when people are being pulled on skateboards and such by their huskies, etc. So, I would definitely like a motor that freewheels so they don't have to work against it, but mostly I want the motor to propel the scooter (and me) so that they can simply trot along side me. I also anticipate the motor may have to tug them a bit to help me train them that they have to keep moving, not just stop - they are getting better at not stopping, but the reality is that I've trained them NOT to pull for so long (i.e. on leash) that trying to train them to pull while in harness is proving difficult.

IbeRKT
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

They are big, heavy, not very energy dense

LOL . . . Sounds like my Ex-Wife

Sorry guess that was off topic.

alliemac9
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

I just checked out goldenmotor.com - you're right, it IS cheap! Is their stuff decent quality?

I spec'd out:
-20"
-Front wheel
-36V/500W
-Standard controller (regen braking controller adds $38)
-Thumb throttle
-No pedelec

This totals only $313! With the alternate controller above (which I don't know if I should get or not) it is still only $351. That's not bad!

I guess the kit includes: motorized wheel, motor controller, speed throttle, power break lever, and wire harness. It is a Brushless Gearless Hub Motor (HBS-36). Does that just leave batteries for me to purchase separately? Does anyone know if this motor freewheels when not engaged?

I typically prefer to buy quality the first time (within reason, of course) so if there are any red flags here I'd definitely appreciate the heads up. I will also go search on the forum.
Thanks!

LinkOfHyrule
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

"Quote:

They are big, heavy, not very energy dense

LOL . . . Sounds like my Ex-Wife"

I've never LOLed that hard at anything I've seen on this forum before! Congrats ;)!

Sounds like a good deal. Hell, I might pick one of them up...

Don't know if it freewheels, but looks good to me, otherwise.

I like the DeWalt idea. Remeber, though, that those packs cost $100 a piece, plus the charger. The other problem I see might be the amp limit on the BMS. Anything over 10A blows the fuse. You'd have to mess with the packs if the motor draws more than the BMS will allow the batteries to give.
If you can work out a way to fit it on the scooter, SLA might be better. If not, then at least in getting the DeWalt packs you know you're getting the best.

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contai

ngocthach1130
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

actually on another forum we seem to discuss this. Dewalt pack seem to have 2 output method. there're 3 pin on the pack. One is ground the other 2 is 33v output. One goes through the bms and the other bypass it. Even if you're paranoi it's not hard to open up the pack and solder on wire. I used 12Guage strand because i can still close the pack. 10guage is too big. When i opened the pack and soldered on wire i had to grind down some protruding ridges inside the top yellow cover.

LinkOfHyrule
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

That's what I meant by messing with the pack :P.
You have the problem of potentially destroying the cells by running them flat if you don't use the BMS during discharge, and wiring it up for that requires a bit more work.

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contai

spinningmagnets
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

What happens when they see a cat?

I know hiking web-sites have dog-pannier vests, you should have an accessory link..

Since your post has drawn some attention, Porsche has just announced they will be coming out with their own upscale brushed-silver version with the dog in the back (German Shepherds only, of course)

Ferrari countered by announcing theirs will be red carbon-fiber with 12 small dogs in front.

Daimlers prototype merged with Chryslers prototype, puppies expected soon...

"If you want a friend in Washington,...get a dog" -President Truman

cerewa
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

Anything over 10A blows the fuse. You'd have to mess with the packs if the motor draws more than the BMS will allow the batteries to give.

From what i hear on http://endless-sphere.com/forums , the DeWalt BMS is fine up to 15 amps.

The "goldenmotor" motor and crystalyte motors do not "freewheel". They're "direct drive" without any gearing or chains, (same idea as a unicycle wheel with cranks/pedals on it) so while the motors do add some weight like any other motor, they don't add any amount of drag worth worrying about.

alliemac9
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

Thanks for the info on the freewheeling, that is good to know.

spinningmagnets
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Re: Best Set up for Dog Scooter?

Couldn't help posting this. Turn of the century pic of basically a dog in a large hamster wheel, with a seat for a human passenger...

http://www.2dayblog.com/images/2007/february/cynosphere_dog_powered_bicycle.jpg

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