DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

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DonCristobal
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DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

So it begins...

I have purchased what EV conversion people seem to call the "donor car." I am fixing the brakes, tires and suspension and everything else I will leave to the EV conversion company I select to do the job. I hope you didn't think that I would do it myself, because although I find the thought of electrocution amusing, I haven't the time, paitience or skill to do it right. At this stage in the game I am leaning heavily toward the services that e-volks.com provide, but I would also like to lean on you, the wonderful voltheads, to offer me up any advice about who I should choose. I would drive the car to Utah, purchase their Kit#2 or Kit#3 and have them install. I would then ship or tow the car back and drive it around the wonderful city of San Francisco.

I have a few major questions about this process:

1.) Who should perform the conversion?
2.) What type of batteries should I use?
3.) What kind of realistic lifespan can I expect from the conversion?

E-volks uses some sort of golf car batteries, with the option of either 6V or 12V.

Thank you for any assistance that you might be able to provide me.

If you'd like to know about my previous/current EV experience you my V thread here:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2834-z20-experience-told-doncristobal

DonCristobal
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

Untitled.jpg

vroom!

Oh wait, what's the electric sound? Buzz?

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

LinkOfHyrule
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

Aww, I wanted to see lots of piccies! :(

Oh well. Anyway, I'd go with (you guessed it) LiFePO4 if you can afford it. It's pretty much been proven to be cheaper and generally more awesome throughout its lifetime. I don't think you'll regret a decision like that.

IMO, big electric motors tend to sound a lot like a turbojet engine ;).

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contai

DonCristobal
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

I should add in my budget too. $8,000 to $10,000. Evolks quoted me $5100 for Kit#2 for batteries and install.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

Shayler
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

That is a good budget! You might be able to buy these LiFePO4
http://www.beepscom.com/category_s/355.htm
I will hopefully be converting my first car soon also. Good Luck!

DonCristobal
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

That budget is for everything. I don't see how I could afford those lithium batteries. 96V at 100Ah would cost $6,600 and that doesn't include shipping or a BMS. That do look awfully nice though. Thanks for the link.

Anybody have a guess about the range for a 96V 100Ah pack? Evolks was talking about putting 150Ah for about a 40 mile range.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

andrew
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

Don,
I recommend using VRLA (valve regulated lead-acid), rather than flooded batteries. Flooded batteries would work, it's just that they tend to smell, corrode everything, the battery terminals tend to corrode, they require adding water, and even the smallest amount of acid will eat clothing.

On the e-volks site they mention using Trojan batteries in one of their conversions. If they can source these, Trojan carries some deep-cycle gel batteries that are designed for EV use. They would require some sort of battery equalizers, bank chargning, or charging in parallel, and these require a lower charge voltage of 2.3 to 2.4 vpc.

The range depends a lot on the speed. For a 96v 100 ah pack, about half of the nominal energy would be usable for the flooded and probably the Trojan Gels at about 70 degrees F. At higher temperatures, more energy is available and less at lower temperatures.

For energy/whr requirements, I would expect it to be somewhere around 300 whrs/mile depending on max speed and acceleration. It also depends on how hilly the area is. So I calculate somewhere around 16 miles range for the 100 ah pack, and 24 miles for the 150ah pack. This highly depends on speed driven and temperature. For example, at 100 degrees the range might increase by about 25%.

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri

andrew
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

Don, to answer some of your questions...

I don't have any experience working with e-volks, so I can't really say. Whatever the case, I would either have them drive it around some, or do that yourself to test everything. That way they can debug it somewhat before you are back in CA with no support.

Also, I think their speed and range estimates are a bit exaggerated for the components. I would go with kit # 3 or maybe even #4. The 72v system with kit #2 will probably not yield adequate performance. #3 is probably just adequate to travel on freeways, unless the voltage was upped to 120v.

The lifespan depends on what you are talking about. The "conversion" will last indefinitely provided you replace what breaks which is a lot easier and less expensive to do with an EV than an ICE vehicle.

The motor should last about 10,000 hours of operation, or about 300,000 miles. The insulation may break down after 30 years. The brushes in the motor may last about 30,000 to 40,000 miles.

The controller depends. Sometimes these don't last very long. It is probably best to get the highest rated voltage controller (144v) for controller longevity, and run this under-volted at either 96 or 120v.

The batteries should last about 500-600 80% DOD cycles (if using Trojan gels, or floodeds). A rough quick calculation for battery life may be taking your max range times 450, though this depends on many factors, and the batteries only last about 5 years even if they are not used.

The charger might last a reasonable amount of time. Most consumer electronic devices may last many thousands of hours of operation in a controlled environment, but on a vehicle this may not be the case being subject to temperature variations, vibration shock, moisture, and dirt. My guess is somewhere around 4 years of heavy use. That's why I like a parallel charging scheme in which the batteries can be charged with a cheap 12v smart charger.

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri

andrew
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

That is a good budget! You might be able to buy these LiFePO4
http://www.beepscom.com/category_s/355.htm
I will hopefully be converting my first car soon also. Good Luck!

Not to hijack the thread, but do you have any idea where they are sourcing these from?

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri

NickF23
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

I remember reading a really bad review of e-volks (http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=ev%40listproc.sjsu.edu&q=e-volks),the story was so bad it was almost funny - they'd left the exhaust on after finishing the EV conversion. It might just be a one off but probably worth asking them about. The claims on the website also seem a little daft, for example

"All of our kits include everything needed, except batteries and racks, to be up and running in a matter of hours upon recieving the components"

A matter of hours, thats a pretty quick conversion.

DonCristobal
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Re: DonCristobal and His Electric 1971 Datsun 510 Stationwagon

Does anyone see a huge problem with using these batteries?

http://www.septechnologies.biz/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1575

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

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