ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

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MattFish
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ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Word has it that Vectrix is working with GP Batteries to develop a Lithium pack. http://www.hemscott.com/news/rna/item.do?newsId=62637803062530

Anyway hear any reliable information regarding the release date for this battery pack? Anyone at Vectrix (reading this forum) want to comment?

My 2007 Vectrix is running smooth at 3000 miles and has already saved me about $500 in gas. With the extended range of a lithium pack this bike would become even more useful.

MattFish

duca
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

I spoke to the dealers of Vectrix Italy in Rome and they say they hope to see something "soldable" within next year

AndY1
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Will the current bike be upgradeable to the Li-Po tech?

I think it would require quite an an upgrade of not only batteries, but also chargers and ESC.

rontivo
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

When I picked up my new bike last week I asked the dealer about this. He told me that Vectrix has worked out a deal with company in either Taiwan or China (he wasn't sure which). He said they were promising that the new Lithium batteries could be used in the existing bikes. He also said that the cost of the batteries is something like $5,000 and that the Vectrix was pretty much trappings around the battery. Look for something relatively soon (within a year?), but don't expect it to be cheap.

AndY1
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Thanx!

It would be nice of Vectrix to offer the current NiMH users an upgrade price which would not be to much or they may loose some new customers, which would decide to wait until the Vectrix with LiPo packs.

Hermes
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Yes andY1

It would be nice. And it would be nice to keep the current stock with Nimh at the current reduced price, and simply offer a new Lithium powered Vectrix (at a higher price) next year.
Then one can decide to either upgrade the current one, stick to the original model/battery (if they feel the range suits them), or simply buy a newer model with a bigger range.

But will they (Vectrix LTD)?

PS I'd like to see other manufacturers build electric bikes of equivalent specifications.... competition always keeps the price in check....

andys
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

$5000 can currently buy a an 84 to 96 volt 100AH LIFEPO4 pack to power a small car-I just priced this out. Seems like more money than it should cost for a battery for a motorcycle. What kind of voltage and capacity does the Vectrix run?

AndY1
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Capacity: 3.7 kWh
Voltage: 125 V

However, the batteries are not the only cost. Charger costs a lot. I know, because good RC electric helicopter chargers with cell balancing cost 200EUR+ and they 'only' output 5A, 22+V (6 cells). And there's the Electronic Speed controler and Low Voltage Cut-off and BEC for the 12V power.

jurba
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

I spoke to the dealers of Vectrix Italy in Rome and they say they hope to see something "soldable" within next year

one and a half year later still nothing

vectrixhoper

jmap
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Capacity: 3.7 kWh
Voltage: 125 V

However, the batteries are not the only cost. Charger costs a lot. I know, because good RC electric helicopter chargers with cell balancing cost 200EUR+ and they 'only' output 5A, 22+V (6 cells). And there's the Electronic Speed controler and Low Voltage Cut-off and BEC for the 12V power.

... And don't forget a Good BMS that will not be cheap either!

antiscab
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

the charger doesn't have to be any different, just reprogrammed.

yes the BMS won't be cheap.

i priced out a 44 x 60Ah cell pack will BMS for my vectrix at US$4350

actually putting it in there, thats a different matter

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

marcopolo
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

I can't really see how Vectrix can utilise a new battery.

Gold Peak, have a huge vested interest in amortising the existing Nickel technology. Since Gold peak own the majority of Vectrix, it will be some time before you will see any real change in battery technology. This is a damn shame because battery defects are a real drawback for the VX1.

In fact without a dramatically improved battery system, the Vectrix revival may terminate before it begins.

marcopolo

R
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

I can't really see how Vectrix can utilise a new battery.

Marco, wellcome! It seems that you missed some posts:


45Ah Gp lifepo battery
:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7920-lithium-gold-peak-battery-pack-vectrix

Here's the data sheet for the new GP LifeFo4 pismatic batteries. They are actually ideally sized for the Vectrix battery box. As you can see, they are 45Ah and 46 would fit in two rows of 23 side by side terminal facing up with lot of room to spare.
This looks like a perfect arrangement. either 39 or 40 of these would give a 45Ah pack at just 64kg!

http://liionbms.com/pdf/goldpeak/GP45EVLF.pdf



BMS prototype:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/8120-dream-come-true

http://liionbms.com/php/ev_portfolio.php

Elithion designed a custom BMS controller for the manufacturer of the Li-Ion pack for this electric Maxi Scooter.
NOTE: Elithion only designed part of the BMS (not the complete battery); Elithion does not and cannot sell Vectrix users replacement batteries.

vectrix_batt_guts BMS1.jpg
vectrix_batt_guts_bms2.jpg

Vectrix with lithium:

(let's be serious. Bmw was forced to borrow an electric platform, and was really capable of integrating a lithium BMS battery? The battery was integrated by vectrix.)

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7636-bmw-c1-e-powered-vectrix-electric-motor

Same LCD displays... same twist grip... same side stand.. same rear engine.. this Controller fan...
It is an full retooled vectrix! This prototype developed with vectrix is using lithium, therefore vectrix may have the lithium pack ready for comercialzation...

bmw-c1-e-large_0013 marks.jpg
bmw-c1-e-large_0013 marks 2.jpg

In summary:
vectrix has a GP lithium battery of 45Ah, with more energy, less weight, less internal resistance (that means: less heat and energy lost and less internal self discharge), and wider temperature tolerance. Adding a BMS will help to use near 90-95% of the battery energy, instead of the present 70-80%, and to balance the cells, preventing any damage. Effective range should be increased from 60 km to around 110 km.

Aircon
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

In summary: vectrix has a GP lithium battery of 45Ah, with more energy, less weight, less internal resistance (that means: less heat and energy lost and less internal self discharge), and wider temperature tolerance. Adding a BMS will help to use near 90-95% of the battery energy, instead of the present 70-80%, and to balance the cells, preventing any damage. Effective range should be increased from 60 km to around 110 km.

that would be very nice indeed.

marcopolo
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Yes, very interesting indeed. But I remain sceptical about whether Gold Peak are really interested in effecting further development of Vectrix, or if facing $US 6 mil warranty claims, felt that a $5.5 million dollars purchase of the assets, might be a better investment and recover at least some return.

But maybe I'm too sceptical! I think watching the activity of the Polish Factory, will be a good indicator of Gold Peaks ongoing commitment to Vectrix.

marcopolo

kevin smith
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

hi matt if you lived in england i would offer to try and help you .
in fitting these new packs crane.t wait to see who is first to go for the new cells
i would like to be first but money and time ..
good look will be watching and waiting..
kev

HarryS
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Elithium would help Vectrix owners incorporate a Lifepo4 pack from Thundersky by providing a BMS and interface to the Vectrix which is different from the Vectrix design they comissioned and hence does not infringe on their proprietary design. I have a quote from them in hand and am happy to share it. They have done it before but I was told that the batteries used (not Thundersky, probably the GP) did not stand up to the task. The stumbling block regarding this quote that it is for 100 units of BMS, all cell board, logic board and custom software. Total is ~$56,000. Not bad considering that this comes to just $560/bike. The 42 Thundesky 40Ah batteries which teh user needs to obtain would run about $2000 with shipping. Hence the total upgrade would run just south of $2500. Not bad at all. However, that requires 100 purchases. Can we get 100 Vectrix users to make a $560 committment for a Vectrix BMS-software??

Mik
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

You can count me in!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

snail
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

As long as we can be sure that Elithium's battery management software will do exactly what we need and allows us the freedom to do our own customisation in light of experiences, I'm in too!

Brian

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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Unless "VECTRIX" or whatever the new company calls itself, comes up with a better offer, count me in! I am getting tired of the SHORT and UNPREDICTABLE range, along with the temperature problems, related to the present nickel metal hydride pack! My present, "Real-World" range is about 20-25 miles, depending on terrain and speed. (It is hilly here, and I often average about 50 mph speed)-I would LOVE to get a reliable range of over 40 miles! I have access to some 40 AH Thundersky cells, just need the supporting software/battery management.--Bob

Robert M. Curry

procrastination inc
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

boards, software, plug and play?

I'm interested.

kevin smith
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

i am very intrested but what are we looking at in way of range ?? 100 miles please..
kev bring em on.

jmap
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

boards, software, plug and play?

I'm interested.

I would but I don't know how to fit all in... I'm not in electronics...

procrastination inc
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

You could learn :)

procrastination inc
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

"i am very intrested but what are we looking at in way of range ?? 100 miles please.."

Unless the software significantly modifies the charging program, you'll need an external charger to pup in much more than the stock 30Ah (so those in the know tell me anyway)

Fitting enough cells to provide the 120Ah required to do that isn't possible with what is currently available. I think a new battery chemistry would be required to achieve the 155Wh/kg to match the factory pack weight. Volume is another issue.

It'd be nice though :)

kevin smith
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

i like..
thats right i started with my first vehicle 20+ years ago .
you have to just buy youself some tools first they don't have to be new
ok really they dont have to yours hehe my dad was looking for his tools i wa alwasy borrowing them
any how you won't go far wrong with this forum we will all
muck in n help .hey listen WE ARE ALL SITUATED ALL OVER THE WORLD BET YOU...
CARN'T THINK WHAT I AM THINKING . well if some one really has a probblem say in america and say some one in england
is willing to pay there own transport all the need is roof over there hear and piking up from air port .
h
HEY PREST a frent to help while on holiday
what do we all think ,,
kev

RaDy
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

i would be intrested, count me in.

HarryS
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

You can fit 42 Thundersky 40Ah batteries (6 stacks of 7 high sideways will give a perfect fit with enough room for cabeling). That is nominally a 25% increase albeit these are 20% more efficient in terms of energy use and are 1/3 lighter at 64kg as compayed to 100kg. Sigificantly less loss due to heating. Also, these could be run down to 90% DOD. I would assume that real worrld range would increase by 30-40%. As to charger modifification. I was told that the build in charger could be used since each cell will have a cell board and the system will balance charging between the cells so constnat power constant current or constant voltage charges work for Lifepo4s.
Our problem will be that we would need a way to comission a joint purchase which really would need a company like evcomponents or such to step in as middle man.

HarryS
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Here is a link to the quote for the BMS parts:
http://liionbms.com/html/quotes/Q091218B.html

here's a link to the logic, translation board that will serve to interact with the Vectrix canbus
http://www.modtronix.com/product_info.php?products_id=110

as part of this deal, they will provide the programming of the translation board.

Mik
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

And this is where the problem of the lack of legal access to Vectrix firmware would start to bite!

You cannot expect every owner to be able to put a replacement pack into their Vectrix themselves, it would be a disaster!

But as soon as someone sticks their head out and offers installation of the "Non-GM stock" replacement pack, including the neccessary interfacing and testing with the copyrighted stock firmware and software systems, that person / organization would make themselves a very tempting target for a lawsuit!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

procrastination inc
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Re: ETA for Vectrix Lithium Battery Pack?

Which is probably a good reason to trick the existing physical systems into telling the controller what we want the controller to see.

I'm interested in understanding the factory BMS so that I can use it to integrate the EVworks system.

It looks like the resistors produce a balanced voltage on each leg and somehow an unbalanced output trips the controller, is that how it works?

If so, the contactor in the TS90 BMS controller http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?product=BMS-MCU-TS90-EV2 might be used to trip one leg and create an imbalance.

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