Florida registration of electric scooters

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gushar
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Boca-

You stated:

"From a manufacturer's perspective, if the bike is less than 50CC, which includes all eBikes, then you have to have the MCO approved by the DHSMV, which probably means that the MCO for Florida will be different than the MCO for other states."

I am assuming by "ebikes" you are NOT talking about electrically assisted bicycles but rather the faster electric scooters. Because, if you ARE talking about electrically assisted bicycles then those are defined as I've stated specifically under bicycle...and certainly don't require registration of any kind...tag or title.

And I couldn't discern if you answered John's question. That is, if an electric scooter MCO (appropriate documentation) has a registered dealer listed on it then does that clear up any hassles with tag and title?

Gushar

Gus

bocabikeguy
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Gushar, you are right, I should have said eMotorcycle. I didn't mean electric bicycle, like an XB-600. I just meant that the MCO changes and approval, while inconvenient and takes a bit of time, did not seem to be a big hurdle. On the other hand, from a dealer's perspective, I guess it wouldn't be a big deal. I haven't been on the manufacturer's end of this process. Administratively, this might be where the problems are - I just don't know. I just know that being a licensed dealer and treating the MCO as a non-conforming MCO does not solve the problem.

bocabikeguy
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

I'm in an odd mood, so I figured I'd stir the pot a bit.

Even skeptics (as in, people who have never tried to get tags for an EV in Florida) should agree that it is difficult to get tags for an EV in Florida.

On the other hand, I have gas scooters, mopeds and motorcycles, some are unknown Chinese and Indian imports, and never had the least bit of trouble getting tags for them.

Is it possible, in a state where so much lobbiest money is being spent by Corporations that want to drill for oil off the coast, that there is an anti-EV sentiment in part of the Florida government?

jdh2550_1
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

The list that seems to be the problem is the list used by the tax assessor's office of motor vehicles approved for sale by the state. If your make and model isn't there, they probably won't give you tags for it.

Ack, there's ANOTHER list!?!?!? Can anyone provide a link to this tax assessor's list?

Thanks.

(boca - perish the thought that there should be anti-EV sentiment anywhere from anyone. I mean haven't you been reading Exxon's brainwashing - err I mean advertising - they have these full page ads where they show some friendly looking scientist and talk about all the good stuff they do. I mean it makes me want to forgive them for screwing up the Alaskan coast line and then twisting their way out of paying their dues...) ;-)

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

bocabikeguy
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Ack, there's ANOTHER list!?!?!? Can anyone provide a link to this tax assessor's list?

Yes. I never even considered the approved MCO list to be much of a problem, since any Florida licensed motor vehicle dealer can apply for a title for a non-conforming MCO. The application process is the same one, except there are two versions of the application depending on whether you need to get the MCO approved or not. I'm not aware of any web references, but if you are a manufacturer and ask the FDHSMV for an application for a motorcycle or a motor-driven cycle they will give you one, or give a link to an online version of the application.

If you are a financially strong manufacturer, meet all the requirements, and are willing to disclose the information that the State of Florida asks, you can apply to get your vehicle on the list. Getting the applications approved has proved to be somewhat more elusive, at least for the EV companies I represented.

gushar
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Well...I really don't think the oil companies are having an impact in Florida that way. I believe even the "conservative" politicians...most of them...here are against offshore drilling...including the governor.

Combine that with the fact that the power companies operating in the state seem to be ramping up enthusiasm wherever they can, understandably so, for electric vehicle transportation adoption. And they seem to have alot of influence and dollars as well to work with. As a matter of fact those are probably the folks we ought to be approaching to get any "problems" corrected. They certainly probably have the political influence to speed things along.

I just think whatever problems may exist are a matter of laws and rules catching up with the technology. That's not uncommon anywhere...probably today.

Gushar

Gus

bocabikeguy
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

I believe even the "conservative" politicians...most of them...here are against offshore drilling...including the governor.

Combine that with the fact that the power companies operating in the state seem to be ramping up enthusiasm wherever they can, understandably so, for electric vehicle transportation adoption.

Wow. You seem to be living in a different state than I am.

While Gov. Christ maintained a vocal opposition to oil drilling when it was politically expedient, his actions have always belied that opposition. Lately, however, he seems to have completely lifted the facade. I guess, it just depends on HOW MUCH oil money is flowing, and lately the prices at the pump have fuelled a tsunami.

jdh2550_1
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters
Ack, there's ANOTHER list!?!?!? Can anyone provide a link to this tax assessor's list?

Yes.

OK, but can you provide any info on where I can get access to the list and the procedures for getting on said list?

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

gushar
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Ok. Maybe a breakthrough here! I called my local Tax Collector's Office where you register and tag vehicles. I was told, after they "checked" some list that X-treme is on the list and the scooters are registered as "mopeds" in Florida. Is this correct as far as the XM3000 and 3500. Are they "equivalent" to under 50cc vehicles? That's what I think I read in the statutes that a moped was under 50cc. Anyway, that's what the person at his local office told me. And they put me on hold while they checked in "electronic land" to find out if X-treme was on their "list." They assured me I'd have no problem with the registering since they are "on the list."

Gushar

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gushar
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Ok. Maybe a breakthrough here. I called my local Florida Tax Collector's Office where you register and tag vehicles. I was told, after they put me on hold and "checked the system" that X-treme is on the list and the scooters are registered as "mopeds" in Florida. Is this correct as far as the XM3000 and 3500. Are they "equivalent" to under 50cc vehicles? That's what I think I read in the statutes that a moped was under 50cc. Oh but I believe the definition required pedals as well...and under 30 mph. Anyway, this is the info I got. Maybe X-treme or a dealer has to do the same process with the models that qualify as motorcycles.

Gushar

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bocabikeguy
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

I can't imagine ANYONE would have a problem registering an X-Treme gas moped in Florida. I've registered a gas moped that was the only model ever built by an obscure Indian company. I have never heard of anyone ever having a problem registering a gasser. I thought we were talking about electrics in this thread.

If X-treme puts "49cc" under displacement on the MCO, and puts pedals on the bike, you're all set. It might also help if they list the model name as "XM-50".

jdh2550_1
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Is the list model specific? Or by manufacturer? Bear in mind that X-Treme sells gas scooters as well (no, I don't sell them and have no plans on selling any of the e-bikes either - just the electric motor scooters on up).

Gushar - can you call back and quote a model number to your "friend" in the tax office?

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

gushar
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

John, that may very well be why they stated moped. However, I don't think they had specific "models" listed. But they absolutely knew I was talking about an "electric" two wheel vehicle. I made that clear. All they seemed to want to know was if the company was "in their system." Maybe all that has to be done is for X-treme to get their electric models listed...if in fact there are models listed. They didn't imply that however.

Gushar

Gus

dieterschmied
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

What is the status of mobility scooters for the handicapped, elderly, etc?

The ADA (Americans Disability Act) certainly preempts state law?

It would seem this subject is a timely subject that should cause the creepy politicians to make it easy to use electric scooters and cycles so that we can use less gasoline. I mean where in the hell are these people's minds?

Dieter Schmied
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dieterschmied
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

What is the status of mobility scooters for the handicapped, elderly, etc?

The ADA (Americans Disability Act) certainly preempts state law?

It would seem this subject is a timely subject that should cause the creepy politicians to make it easy to use electric scooters and cycles so that we can use less gasoline. I mean where in the hell are these people's minds?

Dieter Schmied
Cincinnati
copy me on replies dieter [at] one.net

dieterschmied
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

What is the status of mobility scooters for the handicapped, elderly, etc?

The ADA (Americans Disability Act) certainly preempts state law?

It would seem this subject is a timely subject that should cause the creepy politicians to make it easy to use electric scooters and cycles so that we can use less gasoline. I mean where in the hell are these people's minds?

Dieter Schmied
Cincinnati
copy me on replies dieter [at] one.net

bocabikeguy
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

AFAIK, the ADA preempts state law.

There are some ebikes (e.g. Boomerbents) that look like they service the disabled and/or elderly. These bikes generally don't have the same problem with police that bicycles or other ebikes have.

The elderly, as a political block, have a great deal of political power. But then, the general public is overwhelmingly in favor of allowing electric vehicles to use the roads anyway. That doesn't always help, though. In New York, for example, the eBike law passes the New York State Assembly every year unanimously. No politician wants to be associated with blocking the use of electric vehicles. Then the eBike law dies every year in "committee" in the New York State Senate. So, eBakes continue to be illegal in New York.

The lobbiests who oppose electric vehicles know how to kill bills by targeting their efforts toward only a few politicians and helping those politicians thwart EV's without harming their political careers.

smace
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

I went to the local Extreme Scooter dealer to look at and get information on their electric bikes. The 3000 and 2500 were a little 21 new to be in stock, but had a long conversation with the sales manager reguarding the bikes and registration.
As a dealer they have had sucess in registering the bikes that require registration, but point out, as has been stated here, there is some confusion dealing with electric bike/scooter/motorcycle. They apparently have a working relationship with their local office and as a motorcycle dealer, can get the various bikes registered. Opinion was that the 3000 should register as a scooter and the 3500 as a motorcycle. But since they have not gone through the motions yet, they do no know exactly how they will wind up. The price they quoted me included tax, registration and title fees. They do the work, not the buyer. I guess I will have to wait until one gets purchased or deleviered here to find out the final answer.
I gather that as a dealer, it is easier for them ot get the paperwork done than a drop shipped buyer.

jdh2550_1
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Hi smace - where are you located?

I'm "halfway" through the process. I got insurance (from State Farm for about $150 per year) this morning, next up is to go get the plates from Michigan Secretary of State's office - will be doing that either this afternoon or tomorrow.

The bike clearly falls into the "motor driven cycle" category. It has too much power to be considered a moped in Michigan. So, now that I have insurance it should be straightforward to get plates from the SoS. So far the process has been straightforward.

I was hoping that I might be able to get a moped tag - but with 3.5hp listed on the MCO that's not going to happen. Oh well - Michigan probably needs all the extra registration and licensing dollars it can get! ;-)

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

BE500Project
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

I know this thread has been closed down for some time but i own a Baja BE500 scooter that i brought back to life,

I bought it used in california and rehabbed it there, i rode it everywhere for like 6 months and never ONCE got pulled over, though i had a few cops give me some hard stares. I then transported it to Phoenix and rode it here for 6 months, again not really any issue. I was pulled over twice while here. The first time i was on a sidewalk in a snobby neighborhood and it said NO bikes on the sidewalk ,the cop told me to read the signs and let me go.

Second time i was in a bike lane and i had my headlight off to save battery power and a cop got behind me and pulled me over and said he couldnt see me coming, again no ticket because its electric. Both times i was pulled over i was asked about the fact i didnt have a plate, which i explained im not required to have

The scooter is now on a pallet and being transported to the island of key west, where scooters live in droves! I am still confused about whether it will be accepted or not, or do i have to get pulled over first. The issue is there is a federal law that says if it has pedals, cant go over 20mph?, and is automatic and has batterys it is NOT a motorcycle

so how do i know what is what?

it is either a electric bike or its not, it cant be both!

you can see my scooter at

http://www.bajamotorsports.com/categories/scooters/products/Be500

PJD
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

There is no federal law governing such things as maximum speed of mopeds and the need, or not, for pedals - the individual states do that. And as far as being electric, that is irrelevant as to as it is treated - I would not even bring the issue up with the state's DMV to prevent confusion. Divide the motor wattage by 746 to get horsepower and then treat it like the equivalent IC engine scooter in any paperwork. The scooter with the "token" pedals pictured in your link would almost certainly be treated as a 50 cc moped as far as legal requirements such as maximum permissible speed, whether a driver's license is needed, whether registration and insurance is needed - and that will vary from state to state. Note that the maximum permissible speed is hardly enforceable, so if it can go faster than the state's limit, I owuld not worry too much.

BE500Project
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

The scooter with the "token" pedals pictured in your link would almost certainly be treated as a 50 cc moped as far as legal requirements such as maximum permissible speed,

so your saying it will need a full registration like a motor vehicle, that is odd because in florida people ride these call them DUI scooters (the DUI stands for Driving Under Influence) because they require no license to operate, most people with DUI in florida have no license

guess the only thing to do is ride it till pulled over then deal with it then

this has been a grey area in numerous states i have noticed

this scooter is CERTAINLY NOT a 50cc scooter, though it could look like one to a passing LEO, the 50cc scooters on the island where i am going can reach 50mph, this scooter is lucky if it reaches 25 on a downhill slope

zerogas
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Take the pedals off. Then you have, effectively, a 50cc scooter.

Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.

PJD
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Simply look up what the Florida law says and see what your scooter comes closest to. The pedals will distinguish it from a Vespa or other non-moped motorized bike.

I always found this uniquely USAn notion that electric motor scooters (AKA "mopeds") are only for low-life drunks who have lost their divers license (all respectable people drive cars - only "losers" ride scooters or use public transportation) to be an insult to those of us who are trying to conduct our lives in an environmentally responsible manner.

BE500Project
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

I always found this uniquely USAn notion that electric motor scooters (AKA "mopeds") are only for low-life drunks who have lost their divers license (all respectable people drive cars - only "losers" ride scooters or use public transportation) to be an insult to those of us who are trying to conduct our lives in an environmentally responsible manner.

I was not making that assumption at all, i have never been in trouble with the law as far as drinking and driving, but ive rode a scooter for years, if anything i think the fact that scooters are treated less like vehicles while actually in the traffic, and then at the dmv the crucify us with all these laws about how we are vehicles, we are or we are not, but if were allowed on the road as a vehicle we should be afforded the same courtesys as other drivers, and have to adhere to the same laws, otherwise we would all be driving these on sidewalks everywhere

BE500Project
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

Take the pedals off. Then you have, effectively, a 50cc scooter.

except its not and never will be, its ELECTRIC not gas powered, pedals or not its still capable of human propulsion

in phoenix we dont even have to use the pedals, mine are off and in the compartment that would be for the battery on the normal mold of this scooter, and they are staying there

PJD
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Re: Florida registration of electric scooters

I was not making that assumption at all...

I was not at all implying you were - I was talking about the US public in general.

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