XM-3000 has arrived

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sparc5
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XM-3000 has arrived

Looks like I'm the first to get the new scooter.

It arrived a couple hours ago. I had a Tank brand 250cc gas scooter and this was shipped uncannily the same. It took a grand total of 15 minutes to assemble, the hardest part was to lift it off the metal restraining bars it's shipped in. I still haven't found a graceful way to do that. Only six pieces to bolt on. The batteries came mostly charged. Breaks were quite good. I grabbed my girlfriend and off we went.

The first thing I noticed is there is a low grumble when the motor is starting off. It sounds about the same as if there was a chain drive. My gf asked if the sound was put there intentionally. As you pick up speed it goes away and becomes nearly silent. The suspension is soft, it makes for a very smooth ride. Acceleration is moderate, nothing that jerks you back in your seat like my Tank, but it's not weak either. The hardest part is to gently increase the throttle if you want to creep forward. just a few millimeters twist and you're accelerating fast.

I tried economy mode, and regular power modes. Economy mode has slower acceleration, lower top speed, but I never drove it past 30mph in either mode yet.

As for the regen breaking, I haven't figured it out yet. It's all integrated with the break levers, once you squeeze, even with the throttle engaged it cuts off power to the wheel. Reports are that the regen only adds 1-2% range. I have to see if the batteries can absorb the regen power, I suspect some capacitors are needed. The regen should save me on break pads though.

Construction was as expected, thin cheap vacuum molded plastic parts, fitting close, but not exactly right screwed together on a metal frame.

I am happy to report the scooter came with everything working perfectly. I wiped the (I assume) imported Chinese factory dust off the plastic with a damp rag. There were no skuff marks on any of the plastic. I was impressed at that. The mirrors don't have excessive vibration while you ride. Just for fun I drove on the grass. There were no sound of rattling except for the soft sound of springs creaking.

So, there you have it, I'm so far very pleased. For $2,000 this is the best deal out there short of converting your own scooter.

For your viewing pleasure, I'm enclosing a link to the new scooter's pics.

flickr photos of the xm-3000

flickr photos of the xm-3000

flickr photos of the xm-3000

flickr photos of the xm-3000

flickr photos of the xm-3000

flickr photos of the xm-3000

flickr photos of the xm-3000

CaddyFanatic2
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

That is awesome! Thanks for the pictures. I am thinking about buying the XM-3000. I have a few questions for you.

What is the actual top speed?
How far does it last on a charge, realistically.
Have you thought about a BMS?
How long does it take to accelerate from 0-30?

Now I have seen that people have modified their shunts and controllers to take extra voltage, and to put more amps to the motor. I am wondering if that is a possibility on this bike because of the regen.

Nice Porsche 924S? If so its the same year as mine. Awesome cars.

I can't wait till I see more reviews on this bike. I wonder if anyone would be willing to do a video of the bike in action.

It sounds like its quick enough to keep up with traffic.

Thanks,
Elijah

'73 Coupe Deville "Convertible in the making!"
'87 Porsche 944

- Cadillac EV anyone? -
www.myspace.com/elijahphillips

Mik
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

I can't wait till I see more reviews on this bike. I wonder if anyone would be willing to do a video of the bike in action.

And I can't wait to read that someone is following the advice on how to treat brand new lead-acid batteries to give them a chance to last.

You should charge it fully and slowly, then discharge very gently several times to "etch" the plate surfaces rather than....whatever, do a quick search through VisforVoltage to the million links on it and exercise some self-restraint. It might pay big time in battery life.

Also, with the previous reports about wheels and other bits being loose on brand new scooters from China, cables having no grommets and shorting against the frame, batteries hitting the asphalt in tight curves etc. I would recommend you do any initial rides solo.
Hopefully there will be no quality issues at all, but a bit of caution seems appropriate.

Mr. Mik

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

sparc5
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

I agree- everyone should read about how to make the batteries last. It's throwing out money if you don't. Also a battery equalizer or bank charger is a good investment. I predict however that when the batteries are brand equalization isn't too big of an issue since usatracy noted how closely the batteries match.

When the charger was first plugged in, it became so hot that one couldn't keep it in their hand for more then a few seconds. It's rated for 5amps. That's 1 amp per battery, I wouldn't call it a fast charger. After an hour, it became just warm, I'm guessing it went into a lower power mode for the last 25% of the charge.

Maybe it was too premature to not go solo, but I started off slowly. I tested the breaks, looked at the wheels for any wobble or rubbing noise. Before the ride, I did an inspection, tightening the bolts, inspecting wires, tire pressure. Being my 2nd Chinese scooter, (the first one wound the speedometer cable around it's wheel on the test ride), I was anticipating some problems.

Took the scooter for a longer test ride since the last post. Facing into a stiff wind the speedometer wouldn't go past 38mph, with a tail wind, it went up to 42 mph before I had to turn. (Can anyone with a GPS confirm these speeds?) I don't want to take it up to full speed until the batteries are broken in, so it may take a few weeks, this goes for range too.

I forgot to mention, the bike is heavy, 350 or so lbs. It makes tight turns a little scary for now. It does have good ground clearance though, I drove it up onto my 3" high patio with out it bottoming out.

Yes, that's a Porsche 923S from 1987. Sharp eye my man. It's getting very expensive to maintain. I'd convert it to electric, but it's a bit too heavy for today's battery technology/prices. The scooter is just right for now.

XM-3000...
-DC-DC converter replaced with a Dell D220P-01 power supply.
-72V mod
-Expensive bank charger until I come up with something better... Still trying.
-

LeThala
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

Mine just arrived (at 5:58 eastern time). Here it is with the R&L truck that brought it in the background. It has little coaster wheels on the bottom of the frame it's packed in but they all broke off on one side. The throttle popped through the carton, I hope it's not damaged. I'll post pics as I unpack it. Not quite live web cam but the next closest thing. :)

IMG_0117.jpg

John

LeThala
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

It came bubble wrapped around the front and under the seat. Steel wire tying each side of the swing arm to the bottom of the metal frame was supposed to hold the bike upright but both wires broke which caused the bike to lean against the right side of the frame. A verticle angle bar cut like a knife through the running board on the right side and an inch and a half into the floor board. The running board on the left side has an abrasion where it rubbed the angle bar but not so bad. They need to use something better than that thin wire to hold the bike up.

IMG_0123.jpgIMG_0131.jpg
IMG_0127.jpgIMG_0137.jpg
Two black plastic pieces that screw onto each side of the rear and the smart charger were taped to the front. The key was in the ignition with a spare. The seat lock is immediately behind the seat. Under the seat was the two handle bar mirrors and the hand guards plus the manual.

The faring and panels are vacuum formed plastic but it has the appearance of a metalic paint finish so it doesn't have the look of cheap plastic (even though it is.)

John

rydnseek
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

too bad you got some damage in shipment.. at least you have it documented & hopefully either the shipping co. or xtreme will make it right.

scotty, Sedona, Az
xm-3000 60v, 38ah silicones, since 7/08
quazar 48v, 12x12ah, since '05
5- vector 2/6/10 bank chargers

sparc5
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

Sounds like a few people are getting cuts in the running board. Did it reach the batteries?

My perfect new scooter presented it's first problem during it's maiden night ride. As I turned the corner after a long cost (breaks engaged until the switch clicks for regen), the lights went off. All of them. I attempted the horn, but it was as lifeless as the rest of the 12V electronics. Crap probably the DC-DC converter. I'm praying it's just a loose wire.

The motor was still alive. Back in the garage, I plugged it into the charger. After a five minute charge, I tried the lights again, alas there was light (once again).

Thirty minutes later, I took another stab at the night ride. While parked I tried the lights. Worked. Pushed the button labeled passing... Worked four seconds then back to complete blackness. Kinda took the edge off the new toy feeling.

XM-3000...
-DC-DC converter replaced with a Dell D220P-01 power supply.
-72V mod
-Expensive bank charger until I come up with something better... Still trying.
-

LeThala
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

IMG_0145.jpg
Here's the gash. The batteries are under the seat so this won't affect them. I did get a little scare when I first tried the throttle. Nothing happened. Dead as a doornail. I wheeled it into my house and read the manual. That was no help. But I did notice a blue switch under the seat that was in the off position. I switched it to on and viola, the motor worked. I topped off the charge which took about 3 minutes and took it out for a spin. The speedometer reads 30 at full throttle in slow mode. I don't know what that translates to in real mph. With the switch in the fast position I never got up to full speed. I ran out of road on my side streets before I stopped accelerating. So far I'm very pleased. I just need to get the one piece of plastic replaced and I'm good to go.

Here's a picture of the magic blue switch under the seat. The other picture is my blue xm-3000 next to my son's red xb-508.
IMG_0147.jpgIMG_0153.jpg

John

Mik
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

Here's a picture of the magic blue switch under the seat.
John

That looks like a resettable fuse to me.

Mr. Mik

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

sparc5
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

First thing I did after I awoke was figure out what was causing the 12V electronics to cut off. Before even the morning coffee, I was out in the driveway with a screwdriver and multimeter. Turns out the fuse coming out of the DC-DC converter pulled apart. The fuse hadn't blown, the metal band at one end just pulled off from the glass. X-Treme was nice enough to include a spare fuse and that fixed it. I placed the wires in a place where they shouldn't get tugged on. All is well again.

Anyone know when the titles are being mailed out?

XM-3000...
-DC-DC converter replaced with a Dell D220P-01 power supply.
-72V mod
-Expensive bank charger until I come up with something better... Still trying.
-

wolf3510
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

nice bikes guys, im waiting to see the xm-3500, and man i hope extreme takes care of the damage on your bike, id be livid...you think that theyd have better packageing...nice pics by the way...

mrladderman
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

well i am not mad at all... because my bike has a little damage on the bottem left and right sides panels, where your feet rest. because i dont have to bye GAS for this bike(no reason to freak out). it came from china on a boat too. the steel rubbed into the bike because they did not put good padding there,just bubble wrap.
they are going to send me 2 new parts to fix this problem. they aswered my email fast too.they said 7-10 days to get parts.

i talked to the guy that shipping a lot of these bikes-and he said this bike is very well protected- not like other bikes he ships- (he is a truck driver). he told me that so many bikes have no protection at all and are all busted up when he drop them off all the time.

LeThala
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

That looks like a resettable fuse to me.

Mr. Mik

Yup, it's a circuit breaker. The part number is DZ47-60. I googled the part number and came up with a description.

Mini Circuit Breaker - MCB(DZ47-60 C45N)

John

LeThala
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

nice bikes guys, im waiting to see the xm-3500, and man i hope extreme takes care of the damage on your bike, id be livid...you think that theyd have better packageing...nice pics by the way...

I don't mind the way the system works. Unpacking, inspecting and repacking the scooter involves cost which would be passed on to me. I prefer saving the money by inspecting it myself and requesting replacement parts for anything that arrives damaged.

John

wolf3510
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

well thats good that they are sending you parts, but im in the manufacturing bussiness here in canada and one things for sure, the level of craftman ship has gone downhill big time, its amazing what our customers demand from us yet they'll allow chinas products to be substandard...as long as its cheap...well you get what you pay for i guess...im still waiting to see the xm-3500...

Zapdos
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XM-3000 has died

Well after three fun days and 135 miles mine stopped working. All the gauges were still operating normally and the batteries were fine but when I tried to accelerate it would begin to start off (jerkily) and then just stop.
As I knew this was a bit of an experiment, I decided to tear into it a bit and checkout the controller. I've worked with PWM drive circuits before, MOSFET's, H-bridges, MCUS's etc. so I didn't expect to get in too far over my head. I made record of the MOSFET part numbers, drive circuitry and other misc components for reference later. I'm sure my warranty on the controller is now null, but that's okay. I'm hoping they'll honor the warranty on the motor since I haven't done anything to it but test the hall sensors. I figure a little reverse engineering will come in handy later.

They don't make it easy to get the controller off or open it, they've drilled out some of the philips head screws so you can't grab them. However, after a little work I was able to get it off and open it up. There were no obvious problems with the controller itself. However, in checking the plug to the hall sensors I found that only 2 of the 3 were responding as I turned the rear wheel manually. At this point I believe the fault is actually one of the hall sensors from the motor. Still waiting to hear back about a replacement and whether they'll concur with my accessment. Hopefully spare parts will be available so I can get this back on the road.

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-3000 has died

Zapdos - Sorry to hear your misfortune. Have you checked for loose connections to the hall sensors? Or do you think the problem lies within the motor itself?

If you want to go the DIY route then usatracy (Tracy Ingram) has some experience with opening up the old XM-2000 motor. I think there are instructions on this site somewhere. However, it's not something I'd want to do myself. Hopefully X-Treme will honor the warranty on the motor - but they will need to test it themselves to confirm your diagnosis.

I believe that a new motor costs $349. Drop me a line if you want me to check on that price for sure (or you can likely look it up yourself at the x-tremescooters.com website).

Good luck and keep us posted.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

Mountain chen
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Re: XM-3000 has died

Dear Zapdos´╝Ü

It is a pity to know the broken one of the hall.

Yes,we have found the problem and 2nd container XM3000 would be dual set hall sensor (6pcs) so that user could be easily replaced by themself.

Xtreme have some replacement hall sensor in USA,if you can replace by yourself,take free to call them.

Mountain chen
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

Very shock on the damage on package.this container spent more than 2 months on the roughly transportation delay by chinese customs,USA heavy flood and really bad luck.

3nd containers would be improved on package....God bless

Zapdos
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XM-3000 to be revived

I checked the wiring and it rang out okay. Took the wheel apart and confirmed directly on the sensors that one was dead. Just took a small magnet and ran it across each one and only 2 of the 3 responded 0 - 5V output. The third was stuck at 5V. It's just a digital switch not an analog sensor. I tried to get a replacement part from extreme but none were available yet. My son was able to pick out a part number though (F41) and so I'm going to try replacing it tonight with a Honeywell SS41 hall sensor. I'll let you know if that does the trick and attach some pix if it's a successful repair... Good learning experience, hope these sensors are durable though so I don't have to repeat this operation. I also ran across a good instructional site for reference. The XM-3000 sensors aren't on a little pc board though as shown in the instructable, they're embedded into the iron core. A little more difficult to remove/replace...

http://www.instructables.com/id/SIYDCLAF3YIJGP5/

Zapdos
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XM-3000 repair update

hall_effect_sensors.jpg
Just an update as I never got back to this topic after getting this fixed. All hall sensors were replaced with Honeywell SS41's and they worked just fine. I changed the sensor mounting to add support for the device leads and put better quality wire through the axle and sleeved it. All chargers I've gotten from eXtreme have gone bad and I was getting a nasty shock off the first one. I now use my own DC power supply to charge and just monitor it manually. With slow charging rates this works just fine. It's developed a sqeaky wheel but otherwise things are looking good. Hopefully the wheel bearings aren't going to be an issue. Almost 400 Kilometers on mine now.

From before:

I put in a new hall sensor last night and thought I'd be back in business. the replacement fit perfectly and tested good upon installation. Ran a magnet across all three and they were all switching as expected. Unfortunately, once I tried it with the wheel re-assembled and motor windings reattached things still weren't working. Re-checked the hall sensors and the one I'd just installed and tested was now defunct. Whatever caused the original part to fail evidently destroyed the replacement part as well.

I believe the most likely culprit is the motor wiring. The sensors and motor wires feed through the axle and there isn't any protective isolation other than the wire insulation. The wire appears to be pretty cheap stuff. Lots of nicks and abrasions on what looks to be PVC insulated wire. I'm going to replace the sensor wires with better quality teflon insulated wire. Try to add some isolation between the sensor and motor wires through the axle and put it back together. Good thing I bought extra hall sensors. It's not going to be as easy to replace this time after I superglued the replacement in...

Only other guess would be a problem with the controller. I hope that's not the case, the voltages seemed normal and all three sensors are fed from the same power and gnd.... Getting the hub apart is not fun, it's a really tight fit and not easy to manage without a press. I was told no spare parts are available so I'm going to keep trying to fix myself. so much for a warranty, with no spare parts available it's not work much? These things are too expensive to truck back and forth for returns.

Wish list: 1) real schematic for the controller, 2) blink code reference for the controller circuit card, 3) detail parts list, 4) repair manual and troubleshooting guide

FYI, as you can see in the picture there is no mechanical support for the sensor leads. They're literally just hanging out there. The case of the devices fit into a slot but it's very easy to break the leads off. Just moving the wires around slightly and I damaged another one. There's got to be a better method of mounting these. Between the poor mounting and the unprotected axle wire routing I don't see these lasting. So far I've replaced all the sensor wiring and sleeved it through the axle. The sensors are marked "F41". I'm replacing with Honeywell SS41. No confirmation as to what the correct device really is. Just hoping the SS41's will work.

LeThala
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

I just got a call from x-treme saying they are shipping a replacement for the damaged side fairing. I put the ticket in on the 8th and today is the 11th. I consider 3 days to be a good response time so I am pleased. The tech support guy also mentioned they are adjusting their packing method to try to eliminate the damage on future shipments.

John

ArcticFox
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Re: XM-3000 has arrived

Can anyone get me a picture of that hall effect sensor?

Just a note: XM-3000 motor through me (if available) is only $314 with shipping included.

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