1700 foot climb?

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even
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1700 foot climb?

My commute is about 10 miles, starting at 1700 feet, descending to near sea level, and then the reverse on the way back. Is the Vectrix capable of doing this? What uphill speed should I expect? I'm 6'2", 195lbs.

Mik
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

This mountain is too much:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2547-vectrix-reports

I doubt your commute is this steep, though.

Is it evenly rising or all-at-once?

Mr. Mik

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reikiman
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

This mountain is too much:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2547-vectrix-reports

I doubt your commute is this steep, though.

Is it evenly rising or all-at-once?

Mr. Mik

If 'even' lives in the SF Bay Area perhaps s/he lives on/near Summit Drive which is at the peak of the mountain range between San Jose and Santa Cruz. The peak is approx 1700 ft altitude, and there are lots of people who commute every day from there down either side to either of those cities. Both cities are at sea level and you traverse that altitude difference within 10 miles of road. The road pretty much goes straight up the mountain with very little in the way of pauses (level spots).

So, yeah, there are commutes which do match what 'even' said.

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even
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

Hi Mik,

I think I may have that mountain beat :-) Here's a pic from Google Earth with 2x vertical with route shown in yellow:

SonomaMtn.jpg

The 1700ft/520m is continuous and over about 2.6mi/4.3km, the rest of the route is mostly flat.

Total distance is 8.6mi/14km one way.

So what do you think, can the Vectrix do this?

Also I see the price in this forum as ~$11K, but the cost comparisons on the Vectrix site list ~$9K USD. I'll give the dealer a call to check, but has the price dropped?

-Dave

AndY1
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

I don't know how is in the US, but in Europe, there's a promotion price going on until the end of July. I think the US promotion price is 8500 US$.

dogman
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

I also live above the city where I work, and it is the worst possible situation for an EV. Sooner or later you will not make it home for some reason. At least I can peadle, or throw the ebike on a rack on the bus if I have to. Better have a friend or spouse handy with a bike trailer for the inevitable.

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TangentStar
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

In my experience the Vectrix could absolutely handle this.
I took my Vectrix high in the mountians, climbed 2500 feet over 31 miles.

My concern for you would be you have about an inch of height and about 65 pounds on me, and also the summer heat might be a concern climbing that hill.

This would be a question for Mr. Mik...

So on his decent if he was to use regen braking all the way down, with full charge, any ideas what this might do?

PJD
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

I think what really makes this iffy is the grade - 12.4 percent average. For comparison, the steepest long grades, with just a few exceptions is 6% for US interstate highways, and maybe 8% for US highways.

Then again, I assume the Vectrix NiMH pack has very little Peukerts effect compared to lead acid, for which long steep hills are range-killers.

So, assuming a reasonable speed, the main issue may be is overheating rather than range.

Shame the commute isn't the other way - so you could uses to partly recharge all the way home - it would also be cooler for the climb on summer mornings too.

even
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

There are some 'flatter' parts of the climb, perhaps 3/4 mile or so is moderate grade. Of course, that means the other parts are steeper. Road quality isn't that good - rough, many patches, ridges, etc. How is the suspension? Given road condition, grade and tight turns, I don't go much more than 25-30 MPH over much of the climb. If the bike could do that uphill I'd be happy. I see some people trying to drive home at 40+ MPH and just wonder why they're in such a hurry to save a minute on a 2 or 3 mile dead end road.

What does the regenerative braking do on a full charge? Nothing? If it can't charge the battery, and there isn't some big resistive load to dump the power into, does the regen braking not work?

AndY1
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

I've done some calculations and it should be easily doable.

//upload.wikimedia.org/math/e/e/7/ee7853df87953ea7da199f1ac1b7b3d9.png)

3000N (you and Vectrix weight's force) * 550m (height to overcome) / 1008s (time to overcome it (14km / 50km/h)) = 1636 Watts

Let's say you'd require 4kW of energy and 1/2 of hours (both figures an intentional overkill), it means you'd consume 2kWh of energy, which is at Vectrix's battery of 3.7kWh, more than enough.

Mik
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

In my experience the Vectrix could absolutely handle this.
I took my Vectrix high in the mountians, climbed 2500 feet over 31 miles.

My concern for you would be you have about an inch of height and about 65 pounds on me, and also the summer heat might be a concern climbing that hill.

This would be a question for Mr. Mik...

So on his decent if he was to use regen braking all the way down, with full charge, any ideas what this might do?

I believe a Vectrix will struggle on hot days on that mountain.

And the rider will struggle to restrain him/herself from going faster, because between 50-80km/h uphill, with many turns, is where a Vectrix really shines! It's great fun, but not for 4km straight after having traveled a few km already.

I believe it will break a Vectrix in one way or another fairly soon to go up that mountain daily.

I would ask for a written assurance by Vectrix that the scooter is up to it before buying one.

Regarding regen braking:

Since I have been using delayed (or "just in time") charging I have noticed that regen braking does not work when the battery is very freshly charged. It appears to work normally at very low speed, when it puts next to nothing into the battery anyway, but as soon as I let the Vectux pick up a little more speed down the driveway the regen suddenly does next to nothing.
I do not know if this is due to physical inability to squeeze any more electrons into the battery, or due to a deliberate design feature which protects the battery from overcharging.
You would probably not have regen braking available on the way down!

And if I understand you correctly, then the total distance is 32km, with the severe 4km climb at the end. You would risk getting severely stuck if you do not take the direct route home! And forget about pushing, it's impossible.

Mr. Mik

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

duca
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

You have the range on your side, though: 14 km are safely within the possibility of the Vectrix also having steep uphills. I drove once togheter with my wife 30plus km on steep roads, I could not say how much climb I cumulated that day, but I guess a few hundred meters for sure.
If you have the possibility to recharge at work you would have enough battery for the trip back: on the next day you'd have an half empty battery on which to "unleash" the regen-braking.
If I were you, I'd try to arrange with the dealer a week, or bettere two weeks test in order to you to see if it can be safely done or not.
Hope this helps

AndY1
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

And if I understand you correctly, then the total distance is 32km, with the severe 4km climb at the end. You would risk getting severely stuck if you do not take the direct route home! And forget about pushing, it's impossible.

Mr. Mik

The total distance, as I understood it, is 2x14km. 1st 14km are on the way down anyway and Vectrix will go on it's own with the gravitational force. No energy lost there. On the way back, he would have a full battery charge for the 14km uphill. Energy wise it should be doable without any problems (see my calculations).

Mik
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

This is Henry Roberts Drive seen from the side.

It is not the steepest part; we're talking 4km of this.....

My first Vectrix flew up that mountain but made the strange noise, see above for link.

Who wants to see a video of the dash of my second Vectrix (now the Vectux) going up there on a 40°C day?

I think that video will clarify the question if a Vectrix is suited for "even's" mountain, or rather not!

Editing away...need to get it below 100MB so Photobucket allows the video...

Mr. Mik

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

Who wants to see a video of the dash of my second Vectrix (now the Vectux) going up there on a 40°C day?

I think that video will clarify the question if a Vectrix is suited for "even's" mountain, or rather not!

Editing away...need to get it below 100MB so Photobucket allows the video...

Mr. Mik

Here it is: (it shows how the Vectrix slowed down to almost a crawl due to the heat)

Later that day , after a full recharge, I rode off to try out if it would go up faster in lower temperature, at about 28°C.

But before I got to the mountain again the motor controller fuse blew.... http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2547-vectrix-reports#comment-15850

It might be related, but I am not certain about it.

Mr. Mik

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

lavectrix
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

My commute in the LA area constitutes a lot of up and down, but since it alternates I have no idea how a steady climb of this length would be handled by the scooter. One section of my route has me climbing 500' in about a half a mile. It's residential, so I'm just puttering along. The longest continuous climb is on my way home - after going through the flats of Beverly Hills I go up Coldwater to Mulhulland - about 700 feet in a couple of miles. So far, the scooter has handled these climbs magnificently. It never struggles and always seems to have power in reserve. Each way is about 20 miles with the trip home the more uphill of the two - my house is about 1000' ASL. The trip to work takes just under half a charge, and the trip home takes just over. So the 40 mile range is realistic, even with some fairly major climbing - along with the fact that I'm not conservative at all with power consumption...

The only thing I've noticed in warmer weather is more fan activity, but I've never had the Bathot warning.

So, I'd have to lobby that the Vectrix might very well handle this proposed climb. Try to get a loaner or demonstrator to try it out. That's how I made my decision.

Morrison
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Re: 1700 foot climb?

I don't know how is in the US, but in Europe, there's a promotion price going on until the end of July. I think the US promotion price is 8500 US$.

Vectrix just dropped the price on the 2007 model to $8,795. This is until all current inventory is sold of the 2007 models so they can start production again. It was in late May or early June that this happened.

I just got mine today. Lovin it so far. It is a blast.

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