XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

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jdh2550_1
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XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

After 168 km my XM-3000 has developed an intermittent fault. The throttle sometimes does not respond at all - if I then push the bike forward (sometimes just have a revolution of the rear wheel) it starts working again.

Bottom line with any intermittent fault is that it's most likely a loose connection or an intermittent grounding due. Right?

At first I thought it seemed like a HAL sensor issue (by the way is it HAL or Hall? the sensor is a Hall affect sensor, right? but most folks seem to type HAL). However, after reading ScooterTech over on that other board (I can't post there) it sounds like when a HAL grounds out the sensor gets "fried" which would make it a terminal failure rather than intermittent. I'll check the connections to see if they're loose or not.

Do folks agree that the testing shown at the bottom of this page http://visforvoltage.org/blog/bubbasummit/4059 is a valid test for the HALs?

I'll also check out the throttle. I have another customer who tells me that the wires are cross connected (i.e. red, green and black goes to green, red and black). I need to check my bike for sure - but I can't understand how this ever would have worked?

I think this guy (who is a customer of mine): http://visforvoltage.org/blog/bubbasummit/4059 may have the same sort of problem that I'm having. Also the customer with the (possibly) miss wired throttle might also have the same problem because they both have HALs that are still switching between hi (4.97) and lo (0.03) when the rear wheel is turned - fried HALs would stick at the high voltage.

Any ideas for troubleshooting greatly received.

Here's what I plan to check:
- Check the throttle again
- Check the HAL sensors for loose connections
- Check for a loose side stand switch or a loose brake switch
- Take off the rear wheel and look inside the motor for signs of "bad stuff" (frayed wires, HAL sensors that might have shifted etc.)

Any other ideas?

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

OK - I checked out everything above aside from looking in the motor. It all seems OK - however, I've never had it fail while on the center stand (I think I need at least 5 cars behind me for it to fail!).

I've got the back wheel off and I've removed the 8 Allen bolts but it looks like I need a bearing puller to be able to take off the motor cover.

Zapdos, if you're reading you got inside the motor to replace a HAL sensor, right? What's the trick? I'm assuming I need to pull the bearings - is that correct?

I probably should look at the complete wiring harness and also open up the controller. I think Zapdos opened the controller as well. The screws along the front have the slots drilled out, however, I think I can take off the end plates, right?

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

sparc5
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

Hi John,

If it's not too much trouble, post some pics. Did the throttle check out as well? How does the throttle on this scooter work anyways? I'm hesitant to ride the scooter until people get to the bottom of what's causing them to fail, what's the worst that could happen a 20 mile walk home and electronics that lost their magic smoke?

I'm surprised the "hall" sensors checked out! Sometimes a loose connection on a battery can cause the electric system to fail when a serious load is put on it. I once had installed a car alarm, it worked, but the car wouldn't start, I'd turn the key and all the power would go off. Turned out it was because the battery's terminal bolt wasn't down tight enough.

Did you open a support ticket with x-treme? I'd look at the controller next, simply for the reason it's easier to access. I'd eventually like to put locking bolts on it. Living in the city of Chicago, I wouldn't put it past the thieves and vandals to take it.

--Jeff

XM-3000...
-DC-DC converter replaced with a Dell D220P-01 power supply.
-72V mod
-Expensive bank charger until I come up with something better... Still trying.
-

kringle777
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

John,
I'd check the Hall-effect sensor going into your controller. It'll look perfectly fine, but I bet you just have to jam the wires up into the plastic connector a bit more to make a stable connection. I had to do the same on my XM-2000.

As for HAL, you could be thinking about the "hardware abstraction layer" in computer-speak, which produces incompatibilities between different motherboard chipsets and makes it so that one computer image can't be applied to another system.

Either way, I wouldn't try to take the motor apart to check the Hall-effect sensors there. They're so buried inside the copper wiring that you'd never be able to get to them. And it'd be highly unlikely to be them that would be causing the problem. You'd have to replace the motor in that case. (This last bit is courtesy of USATracy).

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

bubbasummit
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

hi folks,

I am actually sort of glad that the xm3000 is broken now, while under warranty. I made it a point to ride it to make sure any weakness comes to the surface. Because 6 months from now, it will be my problem. Just make sure you do circular routes so you're not so far from home, and bring your cell phone. Besides, it'll be cold 6 months from now.

ride on, ride often, and grin

zerogas
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

Check your battery connections inside the pack. When I was overvolting my xb 600 I found 2 battery cables hanging on for dear life! There must not be any QC on the battery packs.

Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

Thanks everyone. I'll follow all your suggestions. And, I've decided to not dive into the motor. But now at least I have extra pictures to post on my website.

bubbasummit - I like your attitude! :-)

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

I think I found my problem - a sticky front brake switch - or perhaps a lack of return spring power on the front brake. Sometimes the brake switch remained on - thus telling the controller not to provide power.

This would have been much easier to find on the XM-2000 because it flashed the diagnostic light for this scenario. If I'd seen that blink pattern I would have immediately known it was something with the brakes or side stand.

As far as I know the XM-3000 doesn't blink the diagnostic light - which, IMHO, is a step backwards.

I also have another unrelated problem - a loose connection in the 12V side of the wiring, sometimes I loose all lights, turn signals etc. I've wiggled the various fuses and I'll see if that helps seat them better.

On the plus side I did strip the whole front of the bike down so I know it a little better now. Pictures will be posted soon.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

From another forum not too far away from here...

Duh, wasn;t the brake light being lit your FIRST clue that the side stand was down or the brakes were active? LOL

No it wasn't - because it didn't happen when I did the brake switch tests (one of the first thing in my list of things to check). All my "spin the wheel with the bike on the center stand" tests passed because I was using the rear brake. Because it was an intermittent fault and because most testing occurs with the bike on the center stand and using the rear brake I didn't make the issue reoccur until I was on the road (eyes facing forward).

Anyway, thanks for your kind concern - I hope this answers your question. Sorry that I'm not as smart as you (really, I do hereby state for the umpteenth time he's a better technician than I am).

BTW, you have about 11 months in the EV field right? I'm coming up to my 1 year anniversary of getting my XM2K and I think you got your first XM2K right after me. Happy Birthday. I hope you're having fun.

If you won't let me (and others who disagree with you) post on your board then stop taking these lame-ass pot shots. Yes, you got a rise out of me - folks who know me will tell you that's not really very hard to do! I guess that's why you and I get on so well.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

SynergeticEconomy
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

John,
I have seen both these symptoms cause by a bad joint in wiring loom.
This caused...

1. Intermittently the lights (12v system) would cutout when turning the front
handle bars

2. Intermittent cutout of controller causing low/no power symptoms
( depends on if you have 3 phase or six phase motor)
Also rolling the bike forward a few metres caused
controller to kick back to full power

Unlikely to be the brake if you are getting both symptoms on the one
bike. And no Brake diagnostic light shows.

You will need to locate the bad joint in the wiring loom
most likely in the front where the many green and black wires
are joined in the loom under the plastic ties.

One bunch had NO Solder applied!!

SynEco Systems

[url=http://www.eVehicle.co.nz]Sustainable Future ....Available NOW![/url]

[url=http://]www.eVehicle.co.nz[/url]

ArcticFox
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Re: XM3000 - intermittent lack of power...

From another forum not too far away from here...

Good lord, don't drag that conflict here with you, please. (Shall I find Craig?)

<table border="0" style="border:1px solid #999999; padding:10px;"><tr><td>
<a href="http://www.BaseStationZero.com">[img]http://visforvoltage.org/files/u419...
[size=1][color=black]www.[/color][color=#337799]BaseStationZero[/color][co

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