V.I.N question

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siai47
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V.I.N question

Has anyone had the DMV or insurance company question the VIN on their Vectrix? I mailed in the papers (including the Certificate of Origin) to register and title my new Vectrix. I also called my insurance company to get the vehicle insured. The insurance company called back and said the "check digit" and "year code" were wrong. They insured it anyway, however I don't know how the DMV will react. The Certificate of Origin clearly shows a 2007 model year vehicle, however the tenth digit in the VIN is a letter "S" which is for a 1995 model year vehicle. The correct tenth digit should be 7 for a 2007 and 8 for a 2008. I looked up the ISO standard for world VIN decoding and the insurance company is correct. Am I the only one who has had the VIN questioned? Only the first two letters C and Z decoded, (european build for the C and Poland for the Z) everything else was wrong.

Buzby
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Re: V.I.N question

I don't think your numbers are correct. I've looked at my VIN and they fully comply with the standard, showing an 8 for the manufacture year... you DO have 16 characters, commencing SZCA1WAK...? (Which looked at first glance to be a Polish verb...!

- Raymond

siai47
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Re: V.I.N question

Yes my numbers are correct. Verified with Vectrix. The 2008 Vectrix VIN has the proper "8" in the 10th spot. The 2007's have the incorrect "S" in the 10th spot. This isn't the worst of it, however. The DMV in Florida just called and said the Vectrix cannot be registered in the State of Florida for road use because it does not specify the number of CC's for the engine on the certificate of origin, only horsepower. I told the lady that is crazy because I know of Vectrix scooters that have been sold in Florida and there are several dealers in the state. Both the dealer that sold me the Vectrix and Vectrix themselves have contacted this lady and she won't budge. She said all motorcycles must have CC's listed. Vectrix is aware of the problem but dealers have been able in the past to put the horsepower in place of the CC's. I can say that both the dealer and Vectrix have responded quickly on this matter, but I still can't legally drive this thing on the road. I guess if you don't have a polluting internal combustion engine in the sunshine state you aren't welcome! Stay tuned---this should be a mess.

Buzby
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Re: V.I.N question

If I was in your position, I'd WRITE to the head of your local DMV and ask if this level of incompetence is common for your county official or does it embrace all of Fla. Insisting on a cc rating when there can be none is simply a 'jobsworth' that think she knows it all but clearly does not.

As far as you are concerned, the problem is their, so if they don't fix it pronto, you'll take the matter up with your congressman, who would be interested in a county officially blocking registrations of 'green' vehicles on a point of principle. Which county is it, as a matter of interest? I deal with Volusia and they're usually on the ball. (Maybe it's because they're close to Daytona!).

- Raymond

siai47
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Re: V.I.N question

Thanks for your reply. Believe it or not, out of all the counties in Florida, it is Volusia county and the tag office in Deland. I'll see how it goes today.

Buzby
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Re: V.I.N question

Last time I was there, it was Diane Matousek (sp?) and she was based in DeLand. I'd also drop a note to the Daytona papers, they'd lve this! (Even Channel 2 love silly bike stories!).

- Raymond

siai47
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Re: V.I.N question

O.K., I finally got a tenative answer from the County tag office (DMV) in Florida about the registration of my Vectrix. The lady who had been working on this called today to tell me that they were accepting my application to title and license the Vectrix. I don't know if they in fact did register it, however it is good news. I am also very happy that she was pro-active about coming to a resolution of the problem. Flordia law does not allow registration of a motorcycle unless the c.c.'s of the engine are listed----Period! I had purchased the Vectrix out of state because I spend the Summer out of Florida and delivery became possible at the end of May. So, I picked up the scooter out of state and sent the papers to Florida for processing. The lady at the tag office contacted me by phone and told me she was stuck because the MSO for the vehicle listed horsepower instead of c.c.'s for the engine and couldn't process the paperwork. I called the dealer who sold me the scooter and Vectrix. Both were suprised and Vectrix said that they had dealers that have registered them for road use in Florida before. The lady in Florida researched the other Vectrix registrations in the state and found that some of the owners were about to have them revoked because they violated state law. At that point she contacted her superiors and they contacted the state government. (in Florida licensing is done by county) The solution is to change the law in Florida but in the meantime to allow registration for road use of any scooter with more than two brake horsepower listed on the MSO. Vectrix, for their part, have worked with this woman to come to a resoultion of the problem, providing her documention of Vectrix's compliance with FMVSS standards, their V.I.N. layout, and their position on the horsepower listed on the MSO v.s. equalivent c.c.'s. To their credit, they also worked directly with her so that I didn't become the middleman in this process. From what I understand today, a state judge reviewed the current and proposed law and gave her (and other tag offices) the O.K. to register scooters or motorcycles listing brake horsepower in lieu of c.c.'s in Florida until the change in the law takes place. Vectrix also has a letter available for anyone who needs to explain the non-standard V.I.N. structure on the 2007 scooters for registraion or insurance purposes. This is a good win for anyone who rides an electric scooter or motorcyle in Florida, Vectrix or other brand.

Buzby
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Re: V.I.N question

Good news, and an excellent result. A shame it had to take so long in coming!

- Raymond

davew
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Re: V.I.N question

This is a good win for anyone who rides an electric scooter or motorcyle in Florida, Vectrix or other brand.

Well done. Very well done indeed!

"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"

siai47
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Re: V.I.N question

The Vectrix is finally registered! I got the paperwork in the mail today and now I can ride without fear of being stopped with a bogus plate. I have a .PDF from Vectrix with the VIN breakdown for both 2007 and 2008 scooters along with a letter explaining their brake horsepower v.s. CC's for registration purposes. If I could figure out how to attach the .PDFs to a message (I am not a computer genius and the staples didn't work) I could post them here.

reikiman
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Re: V.I.N question

you can't do general file attachments to a comment. You'll need to start a new posting ... and in fact, by starting a new posting you have the opportunity to use a more appropriate subject line such as "Vectrix's letters that aid registration" or ah.. you might be able to do better. It would be easier for people to find as its own posting with a more appropriate subject line. Being easier to find more people will be able to register Vectrix's, and this by itself will usher in a new age of nirvana...

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

tom5007
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Re: V.I.N question

Yes my numbers are correct. Verified with Vectrix. The 2008 Vectrix VIN has the proper "8" in the 10th spot. The 2007's have the incorrect "S" in the 10th spot. This isn't the worst of it, however. The DMV in Florida just called and said the Vectrix cannot be registered in the State of Florida for road use because it does not specify the number of CC's for the engine on the certificate of origin, only horsepower. I told the lady that is crazy because I know of Vectrix scooters that have been sold in Florida and there are several dealers in the state. Both the dealer that sold me the Vectrix and Vectrix themselves have contacted this lady and she won't budge. She said all motorcycles must have CC's listed. Vectrix is aware of the problem but dealers have been able in the past to put the horsepower in place of the CC's. I can say that both the dealer and Vectrix have responded quickly on this matter, but I still can't legally drive this thing on the road. I guess if you don't have a polluting internal combustion engine in the sunshine state you aren't welcome! Stay tuned---this should be a mess.

Sorry to "revitalise" this topic. I just happened to stumble over my registration documents and found that despite having bought my Vectrix in mid 2008 the 16 digit VIN does NOT have an eight at the 10th digit. All starts good with a SZCAARDW8Wxxxxxx
but in fact the 8 pops up at the ninth digit. Also the serial number at the end is quite low (below thousand).

Question: does this mean I have a "recycled" 2007 model?

arloguay
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Re: V.I.N question

I also had my 1997 Vectrix's VIN questioned, but they figured it out by calling the company without any help from me. It was the insurance company that balked in my case, not the MVD. (NuevoMexicospeak for DMV.)

I wonder whether the DMV would accept "0" as a CC number? That is the most accurate, and it would have a side effect in some states of waiving the motorcycle license endorsement requirement.

I got a speeding ticket before getting properly licensed, and the cop asked me three times to verify that there was no CC number. I told him "zero", but he tried hard to get a number from me. Perhaps it's just that "displacement" is too technical a word. :-)

siai47
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Re: V.I.N question

I wish I could download the .PDF I have from Vectrix---it has the v.i.n. structure for both 2007 and 2008 models. However, the forum won't let me download a file of this size which is 6mb. Tom500--you have a 2007 Vectrix. If the VIN starts out SZCAA you have a 2007. If it starts out SZCA1 its a 2008. The first 3 digits are the manufacturing location (World manufacturing identification). SZC signifies Wroclaw, Poland. The next 6 digits are the vehicle descriptors. For a 2007 the digits in position 4 and 5 are A and A for the Vectrix scooter model 1. The digits in position 6 and 7 are the color--RD for red, BE for blue, GN for green, SR for silver, WE for white, BK for black. The digits in position 8 and 10 are for the country the scooter is to be sold in--W and W for international, U and S for the United Kingdom, and U and K for the United States (sounds backward on the last two) The ninth digit is a check digit. Digit 11 is the model year, A for 2007, B for 2008, C for 2009. Digit 12 is listed as "other" with A for XXX, B for XXY, and C for XXZ (I have no idea what "other" refers to. The remaining digits (13 thru 17)are the production number.

In 2008 Vectrix changed the numbering system to conform with normal VIN structures used around the World. For 2008 the first 3 digits could also be 4MO signifing New Bedford, Ma. as a manufacturing location. The digit in position 4 is the scooter model (line/type) A is the standard Vectrix we all have come to love. B is the Vectrix 3 "three wheel", C is the Vectrix2 scooter, D is the Vectrix Racing Bike/motorcycle, E is the next model and so on. Digit 5 is the Design Sequence which is currently 1. Digit 6 is the color--R for red, L for light red, E for blue, G for green, S for silver, W for white, B for black. Digit 7 (this one is interesting) is battery chemistry / HP (engine type/hp)--A for HiMH/5, B for Li-ion/4, C for Li-ion/5, D for Li-ion/16. Digit 8 is the destination country--W for international, K for the United Kingdom, S for the United States. Digit 9 is again a check digit. Digit 10 is the model year--7 for 2007, 8 for 2008 and so on. Digit 10 is the plant of manufacture that affixes the VIN--N for New Bedford, A for Wroclaw. The digits from 12 to 17 are the production number.

I hope this helps people sort this thing out once and for all--I know insurance companies are really confused by these VIN schemes.

moccasin
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Re: V.I.N question

I wish I could download the .PDF I have from Vectrix---it has the v.i.n. structure for both 2007 and 2008 models.

If you want to email it to me, I'll be happy to host it on my evriders.netsite and put a link to it here. Just send it to me at moccasin [at] bellsouth.net

moccasin
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Re: V.I.N question

I wish I could download the .PDF I have from Vectrix---it has the v.i.n. structure for both 2007 and 2008 models.

Steve's VIN Scheme PDF file is now online at the following address:
www.evriders.net/VIN_Scheme.pdf

Thanks, Steve! I'm sure that will help some folks out until all our DMV offices get up to date!
Mike

tom5007
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Re: V.I.N question
I wish I could download the .PDF I have from Vectrix---it has the v.i.n. structure for both 2007 and 2008 models.

Steve's VIN Scheme PDF file is now online at the following address:
www.evriders.net/VIN_Scheme.pdf

Thanks, Steve! I'm sure that will help some folks out until all our DMV offices get up to date!
Mike

Mike & Steve many thanks for sharing the PDF. This definitely clears up things!

Now I just need to find out following things

1.) My Vectrix is a year 2007 (according to VIN) despite buying it mid 2008. Is this rather normal? I would love to hear from other Vectrix owners if they also have a 2007 Vectrix. My serial number is rather low (less than 1000!) under the OLD VIN scheme.

2.) Are the serial numbers starting from zero when Vectrix started with the new VIN scheme or did they continue counting up the serial number using the new the VIN structure.

Aim is that I want to know how old (i.e. the batteries) my Vectrix really is. Perhaps it was already one and a half year old at the time it was delivered to me :-O

One more comment, from discussions in other forums I know that there is a risk to disclose your full VIN. So please don't state your full VIN (including the serial number) in this forum. At least it is not my intention to get your VIN, I just want to know how Old my Vectrix is.

siai47
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Re: V.I.N question

As to the actual age of your Vectrix, who knows--however the answer is pretty easy to find out. The MSO gives no real indication of the production date. My MSO was dated May 30, 2008 but the scooter was actually built in the fall of 2007. To find out when it was built I called Vextrix and asked them, and they gave me the production date. As to the batteries, I wouldn't worry too much about the time they might have spent in a partially discharged or fully discharged state. NiMH batteries can be stored completely discharged (unlike lead acid) but it is best to store them at about a 40% charge rate. At some time prior to the delivery of you scooter, the battery rework was done and I would assume a charge cycle occurred at that time. So most likely the battey didn't sit longer then 6 months without a charge.

tom5007
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Re: V.I.N question

I was most worried about the batteries. With your response I am much more relaxed now. There is one odd thing with my OLD structured VIN. According to the VIN my Vectrix is red. But it is white in reality! Maybe the combination of the two made me curious.

moccasin
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Re: V.I.N question

My understanding was/is that Vectrix will or would not release the 08 models until all the 07s on the shelves are gone, which makes perfectly good sense to me. We see multi billion dollar automobile companies going broke right now because they made major changes to every year model, costing them millions of profit bucks each year, and they release the new models long before the old ones are off the lots, which kills the sale prices of the older ones. Vectrix made no changes between her 07 and 08 models, other than software updates, and the battery fix, which are the last things done before shipment of each bike, so no matter when you bought your bike, you got the last one in line and it's the same animal as the new ones coming off the line with later serial numbers.

Batteries are not fruits and vegatables. They wear out from use, not from storage where they are made, and Vectrix can't afford to have thousands of batteries sitting on a shelf, so it's a pretty safe bet that your 2007 frame got a fresh battery when it was assembled and shipped, and even if it didn't you won't notice any reduction in life or performance of a battery that had not been previously put into service. They start wearing out when you start using them. ;-)

Mik
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Re: V.I.N question

One more comment, from discussions in other forums I know that there is a risk to disclose your full VIN. So please don't state your full VIN (including the serial number) in this forum. At least it is not my intention to get your VIN, I just want to know how Old my Vectrix is.

I always suspected this, but do not understand what the actual risks are.

Which parts of the VIN can we discuss in public, which are the problematic ones?

Could you maybe explain more about this?

Mr. Mik

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

tom5007
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Re: V.I.N question

I think the risk is that a real vin could be used to clone a stolen vehicle. I guess this is more interesting for popular cars that when reported stolen could not be sold due to the vin being tagged as stolen. So let's assume you haven stolen a Vectrix you simply would need a vin of a matching Vectrix that has not been reported as stolen and use it to register your stolen vehicle.
Sounds like Italian job.

moccasin
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Re: V.I.N question

My turn! :-(

Alabama has just rejected my application for title and registration for the Vectrix. due to it's erroneous VIN number. Even after presenting the nice letter from Vectrix Corp explaining their VIN history, it's a no-go.

The state is telling me that I either get a new VIN and MSO, a new bike, or stay at home and walk. Yeehaaa!! So much for saving the planet, eh? HAHA!!

So today, I get to introduce my state to the Vectrix legal staff....

siai47
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Re: V.I.N question

Sorry to hear about your registration problem. Too bad they couldn't be proactive in Alabama like the people who helped me in Florida. The basic problem still rests with Vectrix and their problematic 2007 VIN scheme. There is no way they can re-issue a VIN for your scooter. The VIN needs to be affixed by the manufacturer in Poland. Ask them to replace your scooter with a 2008 Vectrix with a correct VIN. I drove on a friends dealer plate until the problem was sorted out on my scooter. Ask your dealer to provide temp tags until the problem is resolved.

moccasin
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Re: V.I.N question

"...Ask them to replace your scooter with a 2008 Vectrix with a correct VIN...."

Geeze! And I just got this one all purtied up! :-(

//www.moccsplace.com/vectrix/graphics/graphics_sig.jpg)
AndY1
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Re: V.I.N question

Wow! It's really nice looking :-)

avronw
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Re: V.I.N question

I bought my Vectrix about 2 weeks ago and it is definitely supposed to be a 2008 model, yet the VIN is the old style and shows it to be a 2007 one.

Interestingly, I have found QA signoff stickers and dates on a number of components, which are all around June 2008.

So it looks like mine was assembled and sold mid-2008, from Poland, but seems to have a 2007 VIN installed. Could this have been done ahead of assembly, probably at the time of completing the frames? If so, then the frames may well have been built a year ago, well ahead of the bikes being assembled.

I took mine through the local Australian (NSW) registration and so far nobody has suggested there is anything wrong with the VIN (cross fingers), although there seemed to be a number of confused looks when trying to determine roadworthiness (without an engine) and CC classification...

-Avron

siai47
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Re: V.I.N question

If you have the old VIN scheme, you have a 2007 model. The dates for various stickers on the bike are not releative to the VIN date. The MSO states the model year. My "2007" was signed off in May, 2008. This could have been final inspection, battery rework, etc. The production date of my bike was in the fall of 2007. I am not sure there are many 2008's out yet.

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