XM-3500Li Performance

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eped
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Re: XM-3500Li Performance

I have used car speedo and roadside police radar. I have not done GPS. Also, I believe I can hit 48-49MPH consistently with 50MPH as peak (the 100KPH seems to be more exact to 49MPH but the 1/2KPH reading the speedo works good for monitoring your speed). I also run 35PSI in the tires (they are rated 33PSI).

Green electric power and use thereof; what more do we need?

ratatouille
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Re: XM-3500Li Performance

Thank you eped.

Jean-François

kaidokert
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Re: This cell is dead, no it's not it's sleeping...

The 10% dead cell LFP battery due to the quality control when output. They come from disfigurement production.I have remind TS many times....
....
Xtreme will definitely compensate the dead cell,we have shipped 20 cell of brand new battery 2nd container to replace the dead one.

One question regarding dead batteries : isnt it cheaper for the bike manufacturer to set up a pre-installation battery test system at the factory and weed out the dead cells right there, rather than deal with customer warranty issues ( shipping replacements, installing etc ) ?
I mean, i understand that in ideal world this would need to be done by the battery manufacturer, but if i was dealing with known quality issue from a manufacturer thats what i'd do..

AndyH
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QA vs $$ Re: This cell is dead, no it's not it's sleeping...

It might be less expensive for a manufacturer to do 100% inspection if the cell volume is low enough, or if they have enough people. Industry, though, tends to see QA as a 'necessary but non-value-added' area and tend to put more people in production rather than in the QA/QC shop. A company doesn't get paid to inspect products, they get paid to ship products.

No - I'm not 'fighting for' that mindset.

I'm retired military, and spent my last couple of years inspecting aircraft parts in a manufacturing shop. The range of customers was small civilian thru multinational passenger jet parts, to military customers. Inspection requirements were generally set by the more stringent of ISO9000, AS9100, NADCAP, other quality rules, or customer's in-house rules. Some customers maintained 100% inspection 10 years into a program. Others - most customers - requested SPC (statistical process control) where only a small number of each batch is inspected. We're looking at numbers like 8 parts out of a set of 50 is inspected. If those 8 pass, the rest are assumed good and pass by default. And that's in the commercial and military aviation world.

SO...the customer here - x-treme? - could check to see what TS's inspection process is. They could require increased level of inspection. They would then, one way or another, have to pay a higher price for the cells. Since these are not Mercedes Benz scoots, after all, I suspect it's much less expensive for all concerned to pricess everything as they are and let the bad cells fall out and get fixed from the 'warranty pot of money' rather than by increasing the price of every product in the lineup to pay for the new level of QA.

Not sure that'll help, but, FWIW. Andy

Johnny J
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Re: XM-3500Li Performance

Just wanted you to know that I measured the theoretical max speed on one of my 3500´s today using a laser RPM-counter.
Fully charged the RPM was 830 at start and the wheels circumference is 155.5cm.
Result: 77km/h or 48 miles/h.
Remember that this is with the wheel in the air, no resistance and I haven´t yet measured the state of the batteries.
The RPM was declining about 5 RPM/minute, I didn´t wait for it to stabilize...

reikiman
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Re: QA vs $$.. This cell is dead, no it's not it's sleeping...

It might be less expensive for a manufacturer to do 100% inspection if the cell volume is low enough, or if they have enough people. Industry, though, tends to see QA as a 'necessary but non-value-added' area and tend to put more people in production rather than in the QA/QC shop. A company doesn't get paid to inspect products, they get paid to ship products....

My day job is in software QA ...

There's a saying/truism in software QA that "Testing is never finished, only abandoned" which I take to mean that we have a given budget to test the widget we're making, and once we're out of budget we're out of budget and we have to ship whatever we have.

It's not quite that simple but this goes a long way towards explaining how the quality of a given product might be, ahem, lacking.

To pick an example out of thin air .. the Vectrix has a higher price than the XM-3500, and with that higher price Vectrix Inc probably can afford a larger QA budget than can X-treme Scooters. In other words maybe by buying the more expensive product you're more likely to get one with more stringent QA.

That's not a given of course. And no matter what the budget is, for a given product there are always things left untested.

yount3000
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Re: XM-3500Li Performance

Has anyone given this bike a full workout to see how many miles you can get on a full charge with the BMS that they have? Is there a good BMS out there for this bike? I already have a 2003 Rad2Go 1500W and I only get 15 miles a charge and between 25-30 mph. So, you can see why I would want this bike for the safer speed and the distance.

Tony "The Bat"

retrodog
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Re: XM-3500Li Performance

Eped,

Thanks for your questions. I will answer these as best as I can. I am the sales manager so I will have to defer some of these to our techs.

I will also copy this to the new R Martin w lithium board....thanks MikeB.

1) We use 21 TS 60ah cells without a BMS. A BMS addition is a great upgrade to any DC system and we may offer it in the future.

We have previously tested 40ah lithium cells in series in ouer EVD. The 21 40ah cells in series would charge to slightly varying voltages depending on the temperature and how far they have been run down. Sometimes they would charge to slightly over 80v and other times they would only reach around 75v. The 40ah EVD always runs fine. We did not sell it because there isn't much performance difference over the VRLA model. We also use 21 cells because the performance is better. We expect the 60ah cells to show similar characteristics.

2) The 30% slope figure is from the manufacturer. Like all electrics, the EVD will slow on hills but we have never encountered a hill that the EVD will not make it up. We have had customers test on some really steep ones. Today, I was testing the lithium EVD and was able to accelerate while going up a slight hill at around 40 mph. This is pretty darn good for an electric in my experience.

3) We have two VRLA EVD+s with the higher torque motors in stock. The higher torque has a top speed of 40 mph. The higher torque helps at slower speeds on steep hills. It has not proved to be a big advantage. The regular VRLA EVD works fine on hills as described above. One advantage of the higher torque model is a longer range since the top speed is less. The higher torque is achieved with more windings in the motor.

Our lithium EVD uses 60ah instead of the 40ah cells. They are quite a bit more expensive. We also use 21 cells. We have a 6-phase motor and controller. Our disk brakes have been changed to a Taiwanese supplier with a better product.

This and the fact that we are a licensed distributor is reflected in the pricing. We are required by law to honor the manufacturer warranties. We also have a complete stock of EVDs and all spare parts in our warehouses.

Where we don't currently have dealers established, we will offer a significant discount - with the understanding that you will self maintain the product. We will provide warranty on the batteries, motor and controller. Please contact us at admin [at] electricbikedistributor.com if you want more information.

One more thing....the top speed of 60 mph was on a slight downhill. The bike will maintain 55-57 on flat ground.

Randall

I came out to Austin last July (on a Saturday) to test drive a Vectrix. I tried calling you for days before the trip to schedule an appointment for that Saturday. I kept getting the "voicemail is full" message. So I drove by your shop/wharehouse anyway. But it was all locked up like Fort Knox. I have a little Subaru and still found those little alleys very tight to get through. Oh well... maybe next time.

I like the look of the bike but that exposed controller on the side is kind of bizarre looking. Couldn't they find another place to put that???

MikeB
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Re: XM-3500Li Performance

retrodog,

I've had my EVD for about a week and a half now, and am quite pleased with it. I pulled off some body panels last weekend, to see how the batteries were laid out. The EVD has more batteries than the XM3500, and they are 60ah instead of 40ah, so they occupy a good bit more space internally. I'm not sure there is room within the body for the controller, which is probably the biggest reason for putting it on the side. Also, it gets good airflow there, and you can see the case has ridges to dissipate heat.

Btw, my GPS test gave the EVD a top speed of 52.3mph, which is pretty close to the 55 that Randall mentioned.

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

retrodog
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Re: XM-3500Li Performance

retrodog,

I've had my EVD for about a week and a half now, and am quite pleased with it. I pulled off some body panels last weekend, to see how the batteries were laid out. The EVD has more batteries than the XM3500, and they are 60ah instead of 40ah, so they occupy a good bit more space internally. I'm not sure there is room within the body for the controller, which is probably the biggest reason for putting it on the side. Also, it gets good airflow there, and you can see the case has ridges to dissipate heat.

Btw, my GPS test gave the EVD a top speed of 52.3mph, which is pretty close to the 55 that Randall mentioned.

Yeah, I definitely find his bike very interesting. And I'm sure that the exposed heat sink fins on the controller will help with dissapating the heat. It just looks kind of odd out there in the open.

Sounds like they did a pretty good job otherwise. How do you like the quality?

MikeB
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Re: XM-3500Li Performance

Sounds like they did a pretty good job otherwise. How do you like the quality?

I think the quality is acceptable, so far as I can tell. It's not going to be in the same class as my Honda Silverwing, but it's also not junk. The EVD and the XM3500 both use the same gas scooter as a base, so the frame and some of the mechanicals are essentially the same.

I get some vibration from the front end as my speed goes above 50, but it's not strong, probably the tire isn't quite balanced. The brakes feel good, and Randall said above that they selected a good supplier. The body panels are properly attached to the frame, though there are some flaws in the paint job that would not pass a rigorous QA inspection. The EVD has better dash instruments than the XM3500, the MPH is easy to read (and close to accurate), the odometer is also in miles, and the dash backlight makes it readable at night.

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

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