Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with BMS (BMS is on the charger not on cells)

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milo0105
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Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with BMS (BMS is on the charger not on cells)

Some guys are interested in this new kind of charger, so I'd like to give a brief introduction of this charger. If you have any question, just leave me a message.

1. Several models of charger available

We have researched a new kind of balanced charger ,which can balanced every single cell when charging thus fully guarantee the whole packs super long life time ..And we have built the BMS into the charger .Now we have the following several models of charger:
36V 2A /4AMP, 36V 25A, 48V 8A/25AMP, 72V 25A.

2. Why we say our fantastic new charger with balancing function and with BMS board insider the charger is a revolution and it is a new invention ?
How does the balanced charger with BMS and balancing function inside manage to balance every single cell?

This kind of charger is the most advanced in the world.So many producer has invested so large account of money but failed to designed well the kind of sophisticated charger with BMS and balancing function inside . Suppose the theotical battery life is 2000 times, if not use the balancing charger, the real cycle life might be only 800 times or even less.

Because among the whole pack, there should be always the weakest cell who had been charged into the highest voltage and discharged into the lowest voltage at first. Thus finally, these weakest battery would be deteriorated firstly. So even other cells still have 90% good performance, while this whole pack decay just because of one bad cell . , and Things is so serious . That means , 70% battery + 30% balancing charger = 100 % good performance.

Our balancing chargers main function is to charge each single cell seperately , guarantee the similar voltage of every single cell , thus every single cell have the longest life as forcasted by therotically .

When there is one single cell who reaches charge cut-off voltage ( 3.9V) but other cells hasn’t, we manage to prevent this certain batteries voltage from keeping on increasing and let other cells to be charged as usual.
For example , if the charging current is 5A , when any single cell reaching the cut-off voltage , the charger will discharge this certain cell at the current of 3A,so in fact the charging current of this single cell is only 2A after reaching the cut-off voltage, but other cells would be charged by 5Amp as usual .

China has many lithium producer , but only one company had designed well the balancing charger for LIFEPO4 battery ---that is CHINA HIPOWER.

we design the charger which has also been used into the spaceflight industrial
Such charger would 100% guarantee a long life of the battery

3. Why BMS should put inside the balancing charger ?

2) About the BMS ,as we once talked ,before we have the separate BMS attached onto the battery pack and the functions of BMS goes as follows : over-charge voltage protection , over-discharge voltage protection , over –current protection and balancing function etc But as time went by ,we came to conclusion as follows :

As the separate BMS monitor every single cell when charging and discharging .
So when charging , there must be a single cell which reach the cut-off voltage first and then the BMS will stop the charger from the charging the battery ,but at this time ,some other battery hasn’t reached the cut-off voltage ,so the whole pack hasn’t been fully charged in fact .

When discharging , there will be a single cell who reached the discharge cu-off voltage first and the BMS will stop the battery pack from discharging with some other single cells having not reached the cut-off voltage . Again , the pack hasn’t been fully discharged .

The battery can’t be charged and discharged fully time and time again .As the cycle goes by,you will see the capacity of the whole battery pack will decrease little by little and even promptly .

Another point is that, with the separate BMS on the battery pack , it will be endothermic and cause more heat and affect the overall performance of the pack accordingly .

Because of the above situations , we have successfully researched a new kind of charger --- new balanced charger ,which can balance every single cell when charging .

When charging , if one single cell reached the cut-off voltage first , other single cells will go on to be charged and the one who reaches the cut-off will be discharged at the same time .In this way , the balancing function is realized and the battery pack can be charged fully .

After balancing charging ,the consistency of every single cell is very good , SO When discharging ,the single cells with the most similarity will guarantee the consistent discharging . Even there is some difference , they will be balanced when charging next time .That is also the main advantage of our new balanced charger .

Accordingly, every time every single cell can be charged and discharged to the same level and can be charged and discharged fully . So the
Capacity of the whole pack can be guaranteed and won’t decrease because of the difference of the single cell .Also ,the performance of super longevity of our battery can be improved accordingly .

In addition, every e-vehicle has its own controller ,which can play as part of the BMS . It would protect and prevent the battery pack to be over-discharged and over –current .

So the BMS over-discharge function can be acted by the controller. An additional extra over-discharge function in BMS would double the cost and increase the weight .

So it seems unneccessary to put extra BMS into the battery if our charger already has put inside the BMS and the controller can protect the over charge .

4. The led’s on the new balanced charger:
36V Balancing Charger
The balancing charger of 36V has 14 LED lights including one power light, one charge light and 12 LED each of which matches one single cell ( as the 36V battery pack need 12 pieces of single cells assembled).
When the battery cell in the situation of balancing then the corresponding light will turn red which also marked that the voltage of the battery cell has already arrived the voltage we set(usually we set the voltage at 3.7 voltage ).For example, during the charging time ,when the battery cell one arrives 3.7 voltage while other single cells are under 3.7 voltage ,then there will be only the light one turn red and at the same time the corresponding balancing line will work .When the voltage of the battery one is under 3.7 voltage then the light one will be turned off and the corresponding balancing line will shut.
When all the 12 lights (LED1----LED12) matching with the 12 single cells are all turned off, it indicates that the all the batteries are full and at this time the charge light will turn into green.
Note : when the charge light turned into green , the LED1---LED12 maybe not all turned off as some battery cells of the battery pack still on the balancing situation but the whole battery pack have already accomplish the charge process.
48V Balancing Charger
The balancing charger of 48V has 16 LED lights include one power light one charge light and 16 LED each of which matches one single cell ( as the 48V battery pack need 16 pieces of single cells assembled).
When the battery cell in the situation of balancing then the corresponding light will be turn red which also marked that the voltage of the battery cell has already arrived the voltage we set(usually we set the voltage at 3.7 voltage ).For example, during the charging time ,when the battery cell one arrived 3.7 voltage while other battery cells under 3.7 voltage then there will be only the light one turn red and at the same time the corresponding balancing line will work .When the voltage of the battery one under 3.7 voltage then the light one will be turned off and the corresponding balancing line will shut.
When all the 16 lights(LED1----LED16) matching with the 16 single cells are all turned off ,it indicates that the all the batteries are full and at this time the charge light will turned into green .
Note : when the charge light turned into green , the LED1---LED16 maybe not all turned off as some single cells in the battery pack are still in the balancing situation but the whole battery pack have already accomplish the charge process.

reikiman
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger ...

I have a series of questions...

I looked around your site and couldn't find the BMS. But I suspect the charger/BMS you're talking about is the one being used by electricmotorsport for their motorcycle, because I understand they're using Hi-Power batteries on the motorcycle. If so, I've looked at one of your charger/BMS units and it looks impressive enough.

If the BMS function is tied to the charger then it cannot function unless the charger is connected, right? Given that, then how would you do a low voltage cutoff function? Or even how would you do monitoring of pack health during discharge? Such as at the minimum an alert saying your pack has cells at or near the low voltage threshold?

Is the charger/BMS sturdy enough it can be carried on the vehicle during travel? Or is it sensitive to vibration and cannot be carried on the vehicle? If the latter then it could only be used at a fixed location. If the charger can be carried on the vehicle that allows the rider to opportunity charge wherever they go. e.g. with my motorcycle I rely on being able to charge at work while I'm in the office so that I have a charge on my return home.

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
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deronmoped
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with BMS

I have a few questions.

1) How many leads are on this battery charger? Are there just a positive and negative? Or are there more?

2) Do you have to have a controller on the battery?

3) Will these chargers work with all LiFe batteries?

4) Do you have any charging times for the chargers?

5) What about prices, have you set any prices?

6) Shipping price to the USA?

7) Are they available right now?

Thanks, Deron.

MikeB
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21 cells?

I've just ordered a bike with 21 LiFePo (3.7v/60ah) cells. Do you currently have a model that'll handle that many?

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

rossasaurus
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Re: 21 cells?

Hi Milo,
Thanks for the post.
Can you please post some pictures of the charger, cables, connections, and in typical use?

thanks
Ross

dogman
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Re: 21 cells?

There are some ebay auctions with hi-power batteries. a few pics. From what I read, you need a lvc on the controller for these batteries. I think they are aiming more for motorcycles than bikes.

Be the pack leader.
36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb
24 volt sla + nicad EV Global

andys
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Re: 21 cells?

"Given that, then how would you do a low voltage cutoff function? Or even how would you do monitoring of pack health during discharge? Such as at the minimum an alert saying your pack has cells at or near the low voltage threshold?"

Doug at EV tech has been using these chargers and batteries as well. he told me that if they are charged up evenly, he has had no circumstances where they came out of balance on discharge. The controllers themselves almost always have a low volt cut off, and I find having both the bms and controller protection circuits running as double protection can be overkill and even cause unneeded cutting out of power. Like having two anti virus software programs working on the same computer! On LIFEPO4 charging BMS is the critical one.

milo0105
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger ...

I have a series of questions...

I looked around your site and couldn't find the BMS. But I suspect the charger/BMS you're talking about is the one being used by electricmotorsport for their motorcycle, because I understand they're using Hi-Power batteries on the motorcycle. If so, I've looked at one of your charger/BMS units and it looks impressive enough.

If the BMS function is tied to the charger then it cannot function unless the charger is connected, right? Given that, then how would you do a low voltage cutoff function? Or even how would you do monitoring of pack health during discharge? Such as at the minimum an alert saying your pack has cells at or near the low voltage threshold?

Is the charger/BMS sturdy enough it can be carried on the vehicle during travel? Or is it sensitive to vibration and cannot be carried on the vehicle? If the latter then it could only be used at a fixed location. If the charger can be carried on the vehicle that allows the rider to opportunity charge wherever they go. e.g. with my motorcycle I rely on being able to charge at work while I'm in the office so that I have a charge on my return home.

Sorry, our web is updating now, if you need any infomation,pls send me an email. If electricmotorsport ordered these cells this year, they should use these new chargers.

The charger will only work when it connected with battery packs, so it only protect the cells when charging. While discharging, we would require our controller to equipe a controller to monitor its discharge cut-off voltage in order to protect the packs.

Is the charger/BMS sturdy enough it can be carried on the vehicle during travel? I will check that with our technicians and reply you later.

Hipower lifepo4 battery. www.chinabatteries.net cs2 [at] chinabatteries.net

milo0105
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with BMS

1) How many leads are on this battery charger? Are there just a positive and negative? Or are there more?
Lead means wire, right? For one cell, there are two wires. For example, the 48v charger would have 32 wires for 16 cells.

2) Do you have to have a controller on the battery?
No, Usually our customers use their own controller.

3) Will these chargers work with all LiFe batteries?
Yes.

4) Do you have any charging times for the chargers?
We have servial different chargers with different charging current. For example, for 48v100ah battery pack, we have 48v8A charger and 48v25ah charger. If you use 48v25ah charger, it would need around 5 hours to charge the pack fully. If you use 48v8A charger, it would need more than 13 hours.

5) What about prices, have you set any prices?
Can you give me your email address?

6) Shipping price to the USA?
It would depeed which way you want us to ship and what is your order. Usually there are 3 ways, by sea, by UPS, by air.

7) Are they available right now?
The lead time is 40 days if we have no stock.

Thanks, Deron

Hipower lifepo4 battery. www.chinabatteries.net cs2 [at] chinabatteries.net

milo0105
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger ...

Is the charger/BMS sturdy enough it can be carried on the vehicle during travel?

Yes, we can put the charger on the vehicle during travel, but stabilization is very important.

Don Harmon
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger ...

Miro, I think you need to publish some specs. and documentation on your revolutionary Charger/BMS solution for LiFePO4. This would be a very good way to show the market what exactly you have to offer and include Pricing, Delivery, Warranty, and other details so customers would be able to evaluate your proposition here. Some case studies, or actual application examples wouldn't hurt either.

Regards,

Don Harmon

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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with ...

If the BMS (battery management system) is on the charger only then it's most likely a CMS (charge management system).

This is most likely not enough to properly protect are large pack of LiFePO4 cells.

If you want your expensive LiFePO4 pack to live to see it's 1000-plus cycles you need to have a per-cell low voltage cutoff (LVC). They're not that expensive, just plain dumb not to have it.

A fancy charger is not enough.

Richard

Sridhar Subramanian
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with ...

Milo,

I have a HiPower 72V,50AH pack and BMS. While everything I've heard about HiPower quality seems to be positive, it is surprising to me that the support is so poor. My U.S. distributor says that no documentation came with the batteries or the charger. By Googling, I found this site which has the PDF for the batteries (http://liionbms.com/pdf/shandong/) which has the PDF for the 100AH and 200AH cells, but still nothing on the BMS.

My BMS came with a 25-wire connector for attaching to the batteries. They are numbered 1-25. But where do these wires attach to? If I were making an educated guess, I'd say, wire 1 goes +72V (cell 1), wire 2 goes to +72-3 (cell 2) and so on till wire 25 goes to -72V (cell 24, negative pole). Can you please confirm this?

Or, better still, couldn't HiPower put the manuals on its website?

Thanks for any help,
Sri

reikiman
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with ...

As an educated guess I suspect you're right - the number of wires means for one wire per cell, with one of the cells having two wires. e.g. the paktrakr is wired the same way.

However is wire 1 supposed to go to the positive-most, +72v, or negative-most, -72v?

The paktrakr instructions say to connect the negative-most then the next wire goes to the positive of that battery then each succeeding wire goes to the positive of the next battery. They are explicit in the paktrakr instructions to wire it in exactly that order.

That doesn't mean this widget is supposed to be wired the same way though. It's most likely to be either start from positive-most or negative-most terminal and work from there.

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with ...

Hi Gang,

In late 2008, my company built a highway capable, street legal 3 wheeled machine using 16x100ah cells and the 25A charger/balancer (on-board).
LithiumDash.jpg
Here are some thoughts about that experience. You'll be happy to know that "adequate" documentation though crudely translated to English, was provided. Written, spoken and email communication was challenging to interpret at times. Timelines were a bit slower than expected. Shipping cost was a little more than expected. The connector between the charger/balancer and the leads that go to each cell was damaged beyond use (in transit).

An issue with one cell (or balancer abusing it) was experienced - to their credit, the manufacturer was cooperative in resolving the problem.

The balance wires are one at the (+) and one at the (-) of the pack, and one at each cell series connection. The pack does charge from a discharged state in about 5 hours. On the low voltage protection side, we used an in-dash link10 to measure pack condition (not individual cells as would be ideal). This machine has such exceptional range, that your butt is more likely to warn you at 50% discharge than the odds of reaching a low cell discharge voltage -joking, sort of. We did set two “pack” low-voltage alarms configurable in the link10 AND confirmed that a low pack voltage would no-longer operate our contactor before it reached a dangerously low "average" cell voltage. However, the scenario of an individual cell beginning to fail could certainly go un-noticed without the low voltage observation provided by a true BMS.

We learned much more, but there's a taste if it.
We will be offering a better package, a full BMS, touch-screen power monitoring and controls on our new website (to be published next month). Inquiries welcome.

reikiman
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with ...

It should be noted that the base vehicle here is a BugE ... right?

How much modification did you do of the BugE?

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with ...

That is correct. This one started with an early version of the BugE chassis. All cells & charger/balancer consume more than the intended location, so the older style chassis accommodates the need for more location space (better than the later model BugE's).

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Re: Introduction of Hipwoer LIfepo4 balancing charger with ...

Hi,

my charger arrived broken and out of order since the fan was stuck caused by broken housing - I could bring it to work again. The whole pack was heavily in disorder loose after all, transport via Italian shipper horrible expensive. Screws corroded a little connecting alloy steel with aluminum but still works. The charger survived condensing operation - I assume here in Europe. After bringing two cells to death I purchased two new ones and this very charger blew both. One could be reused the other had to be replaced again. I tried to get a stronger charger but got one not balancing the cells which was very frustrating. But some discount was given before so well ok...
I will try to learn from the description you made, however I feel that documentation one gets when buying is weak, very weak. It is also not very helpful for smaller OEMs if no BMS is available...

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