Just got my XM-3500Li

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sgmdudley
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

I upgraded my Zapino to Michelin S-1. Much better then the Kenda.

Robert Dudley
E-Scoot Tech

zarlor
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

I think the S-1 tires only come in 10", though. The XM-3500Li uses a 13" tire. I'm sure I'll need to do some more tire research, but I figured getting some feedback from the always knowledgeable folks here wouldn't hurt.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

Johnny J
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

I´m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there are actually a couple of construction error on these bikes.
The angle of the front fork is not steep enough, which make the scooters hard to turn and they feel unbalanced when driving.

You get more used to it after driving for a while and it doesn´t feel as bad when going fast.
But, it can cause some balance issues...

This is according to my experience in 2-wheelers, I might be wrong...

There is also another potential danger that you all should look into:
The 2 front fork "legs" are clamped with screws at top, on one of our scooters one of the screws had loosened and that "leg" had slipped up a couple of inches, nothing stopped it, bad construction.
The result was that you could only turn one way....really dangerous, be aware and check that these 2 screws are tightened!!

I would really appreciate some input on these issues!

Best regards

Johnny

zarlor
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

I would really appreciate some input on these issues!

Well, i can only speak to my particular XM-3500Li, but I can't say that I've had any of the issues you mentioned with it. The fork and frame all seem stable and sturdy, no loose bolts or anything, and while others have reported something about off-center handlebars and possible alignment issues, I have no such problems on mine, even at low speeds. I can ride it hands-off and it rides true. Now because of the low-slung weight you can't throw the bike around in a turn like you might with a bicycle because the bottom of the bike does not respond very quickly, but the top responds quite nimbly, in my experience, so as long as you rely on what is probably more proper technique for a motorcycle by counter-steering and leaning then it seems to work quite well for me even (or especially so) on the swerve. The only times I've had wobble so far have been due to slick road conditions, and hence my looking at getting new tires.

That being said, though, my experience with motorcycles is a bit more limited. I did some dirt (and some street, but mostly dirt) riding on 150cc bikes a bit in my younger years and I had a small Piaggio Ciao moped when I was stationed in Italy back in the 1980s, but my experience with very large bikes is pretty much non-existent.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

Iccarus
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Lenny, I have yet to do much riding on wet pavement so I can't say on that. I think the 3500 handles very well though. I've been riding bikes all my life and used to race motocross and I think these scooters handle surprisingly well. Thanks Jonnyj for the tip on the forks I'll check that when I can... I'm back in the deep freeze in Illinois now, so no riding for me for awhile.

Bumming a charge is an art -Bill

2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl

zarlor
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Just a bit of an update. I've done a little more testing on the odometer and I've determined that actual distance traveled is 98% of the distance showing. Which means that I have 2,262.5 km (2,308.67 showing... the .07 is a guesstimate bases on how far rolled up the number 6 was. ;)), or about 1,406 miles, on the bike so far. So far so good. It does appear that on colder days, say below 50 degrees, I can only get a top speed of around 37mph. When it's in the 60s or above the usual 39mph seems to be as good as it gets. I did notice the other day, though, that I did the usual commute to the office and then forgot to put it on the charger as soon as I got home. I wasn't until about a half an hour before I had to go out again that I realized I needed to plug in the charger. So I went out again without getting a full charge up, so I didn't reset the fuel/trip gauge on my GPS. On the way back the throttle abruptly cut off and would cut back in again after a bit, although I could hold the throttle at a lower speed and could go for longer without the cutout. I think this is the behavior I should expect when the battery gets low, but... my trip gauge read all of 24 miles on it, which seems WAAAAAY low. I may have to go back and measure battery levels again when I get some time to dig back into things and see if I have a bad cell or something.

I'm very, very tempted to add some batteries into the mix, like others here have, but considering that summer is just around the corner (with 90 & 100+ days in 90+% humidity) I'm pretty concerned about hurting the motor doing that, so i think I'll wait and see how others are fairing with their setup as temps warm up. I'd love to do the BMS thing, but taking the time to order parts and do the soldering... well, I'm just not up for doing all of that yet, so relying on warranty is where I'll stay for now. Maybe if someone finally puts out a complete BMS for these cells I'll buy in.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

Mikie
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Lenny-- good to hear from you brother. I too am not up to making up a BMS myself, too intimidating for me. There was a post by Sparky(remember the GREEN BMS) a few weeks ago that he is still on track with his BMS--with due date set for the beginning of warmer weather, I hope he lives in Florida and not Anchorage! see post link below

http://visforvoltage.org/blog/sparc5/4991

and the 2/03/09 post is what you want to read near the bottom....M

mikie

zarlor
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Even when not posting, I'm still lurking, my man! Thanks for the Green BMS link, though, I hadn't really been looking in that forum, although I remember Sparky talking about doing that. Of course around here it's already scooter weather! (Actually it never really stopped being scooter weather, except that I hate scooting when it's colder than 40 degrees F.) I simply must continually remind myself that patience is a virtue.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

Iccarus
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Lenny wrote-On the way back the throttle abruptly cut off and would cut back in again after a bit, although I could hold the throttle at a lower speed and could go for longer without the cutout.

Lenny, That was your low voltage cutoff on your controller tripping when the voltage sagged under load. When that happens if you back off the throttle a little or go to economy mode, you can keep going for awhile at low speed to find a place to charge. If you add cells the LVC will be to low to be of use anymore and you will become the LVC. I have 2402km on my 24cell 3500li now...so far so good. I drove 20mi at full throttle on an 80 degree day and the motor just felt like the usual temp. I am in Florida so it's very flat. I don't know if I would try this in hilly terrain. Have you tried topping off all your cells individually with a single cell charger? They sell them for $12 each at voltphreaks.com. I did this and found that many of my cells were not getting fully charged. Once you do this the stock charger seems to keep them pretty happy. Then you can just monitor them occasionally to pump up any laggards. I'll bet that's why your range is a little low. If you do this you probably won't get more speed, just better range. I get 48mph gps tested with 24cells 51mph with 26cells. I found a place that sells a 10amp lifepo4 charger that charges a 4cell pack(12.8v) I'm going to try 28cells for awhile and see how it goes. The charger I got from elite will charge the 24 and I would have to take the other 4cells out of the loop to charge. You may be able to do it without doing that but I'm not sure how. I've tested up to 30cells but only for a few charge cycles. If you punch it from a stop you can blow you controller at that voltage! It happened to my friend. He got a new controller for $100 from X-treme but it took a month. I think that's the worst case senario... a fried controller.(I HOPE) Well I built a Fechter/Goodrum BMS and am waiting for my connectors. I'll post how things go. Unless you can solder components that are a playing card thickness apart I wouldn't try it. But it was a fun challenge. I was told to wire it in series with a tailight bulb for testing to be safe. With the bms I won't have to worry about the LVC being to low with my extra cells. Right now I'm monitoring them with my balance cards I installed and I just stop if I'm even getting close to dropping below 2.5v on any cell. But I've been riding enough now to safely say that if you just stop when the scooter starts really noticably slowing down( before the cutoff is tripped) you won't get close to damaging the batteries.(again...as long as the pack is balanced) Anyway I would say if you have the means, that little bit of extra speed really makes it nice and with the TSL72-15 it only takes 2.67 hours to charge 24cells. You can PM me if you have any questions.

PS- Someone else posted about those single cell chargers at voltphreaks. You have to cut the ends off and put clamp type connectors on and there's no reverse polarity protection on them so be careful. They are 2amp 3.7v chargers. I would get at least two so you can work from each end towards the middle.(I guess you can't put two chargers right next to each other. When the red light turns green move to the next cell and so on till they are all fully charged. After about 20 minutes they will be reading lower than they were when you removed the charger...that's normal. Doing this increased my range by about 10 miles.

Bill-

2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl

Iccarus
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Re: Fork & Brake issues
There is also another potential danger that you all should look into:
The 2 front fork "legs" are clamped with screws at top, on one of our scooters one of the screws had loosened and that "leg" had slipped up a couple of inches, nothing stopped it, bad construction.
The result was that you could only turn one way....really dangerous, be aware and check that these 2 screws are tightened!!

I would really appreciate some input on these issues!

Best regards

Johnny

Thanks for the heads up on the forks. I checked mine and they're tight. I'll keep an eye on that. I guess the thing to do would be remove them one at a time and put locktight on the threads. On the brake pad overhang, how did you fix yours? Did you grind a groove in the swingarm so you can pivot the caliper where it belongs and then drill a new hole with it in the proper position?

PS nevermind I found the post that describes the procedure very well.

Bill

2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl

Iccarus
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Re: 28 cells = 54mph

To those interested in adding extra cells to a 3500li. 24 cells=47mph, 26cells=51mph,28cells=54mph. Flat road 170lb driver, GPS tested. I now have 2859km on 24cells. About 200km with 28cells. Just be aware you will damage the batteries if you count on the controllers low voltage cutoff to tell you when to stop.(if you run it till it won't go anymore)

Bill-

2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl

zarlor
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Here it is a year and a half after my initial purchase, and 7 months since my lost post here, and everything is still running along. The XM3500 remains my primary commuter, although I finally dumped the bike for the first time on Friday. These tires suck BAD. I've known it for a while now but taking a turn on a slick street with someone practically tailgating me and apparently even 3-5mph is just too fast for the stock tires to handle. There was no slipping or skidding this time, though. One nanosecond I'm fully upright and the next the bike, and me, are sliding on the ground down the street. (No serious injuries or anything, other than a bruised ego and a bit of scraped up lower plastic panel and on the side of the front cowling.) I've taken that turn hundreds of times on the bike and was fully aware of how slick it could be, but the guy behind me must have had me flabbergasted enough to have held onto the brake just a hair too long for those pitiful tires to completely lose all traction. Trust me, this was not the kind of conditions that any decent tire shouldn't have been able to handle and the tread on the tires is still in good shape, the tires themselves just seem to be of a rather poor design as others on this forum have mentioned. So I really need to stop procrastinating and really get some good tires. ;)

So beyond that I'd recommend folks put some Loc-tite (or Super Glue, if you will) on the threads that connect the speedometer cable to the speedo assembly. When doing that for everything else I forgot to do it for that one and the whole cable just fell out on me one day (I wondered that that pop was, thinking a rock had hit the bottom of the bike or something, when in fact it was the speedo cable smacking the bike before dragging on the ground underneath me.) All of which means I have no actual idea how much mileage I've put on this sucker so far, but suffice to say I tend to drive it 20-25 miles a day, 5 days a week weather (and/or other factors) permitting. So maybe an average of 3-4 days a week for as long as I've had it. So conservatively it should have at least 4,500 miles on it by now and probably closer to 6,500 miles. I've had to add brake fluid once during that time, it seems to get pretty low every 10 months or so, so it's getting around that time to add some more. I thought that a relatively closed system like that would have lasted longer, but brake fluid is cheap and it doesn't take much to fill those reservoirs and considering there's no need to do things like oil changes and the like I can certainly live with it. I've also had the front left turn signal light go out on me just the other day and I need to check if it's just a wiring issue or if the bulb just burned out, both conditions would be rather annoying to have them go out so relatively soon, but I knew this thing was something of a "project" going in. I just hate that I have to go through taking so much stuff apart to do such a routine bit of maintenance. You'd think these guys would have made getting the lights a little easier. Indeed that has to be one of the most annoying aspects of this bike. The body design is such a pain to deal with when it comes to taking things apart and getting in to do even simple things like changing light bulbs. I hate having to set aside so much time just to do something like that.

Overall, though, the experience is still pretty positive. Maybe if Current comes out with a good enough design I could look at buying up to a different bike (and maybe even getting an actual motorcycle endorsement on my license). We'll just have to see how the pocketbook looks whenever they eventually do get a final release product out the door. ;)

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

marylandbob
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li (BRAKES)

If you find that adding brake fluid is required, it is possibly due to the brake pads/shoes wearing down, because fluid is pumped into the calipers to make up for the wear. CHECK your pads/linings! Do not wait until they wear down to nothing, and damage your rotors/drums!--Bob Curry

Robert M. Curry

zarlor
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Thanks for the advice, but I do check the pads regularly and they are still quite thick. A tad more wear on the front over the rear, as I would expect, but they're still in very good shape.

I did forget to add one more thing, which is a problem I think someone else on the forum had at some point as well, my side stand loosened up with a crack at the weld joint, so I HAVE to use the center stand now. I'll probably take it to the local motorcycle shop and see how much they charge to fix it up, but since I had read about the same problem here for someone else it's definitely something to note on the less-than-optimal build quality for these.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

zarlor
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Latest update: I finally got around to getting the new tires. I ended up with a flat on the old ones, but with the potholes being what they are around here I apparently had a few dings on the rim enough that the tire ended up losing its bead, so I wasn't able to pump it up after I repaired it. So that pretty much forced the issue since I would probably need some help getting that useless tire reseated anyway. Long story short (too late!) I got some Michelin tires (I forget the exact model) and took them to a shop to have them mounted. THAT is something to be aware of, BTW, because it actually took me a while to find a place that would do it. Most tire shops only have a machine for mounting tires on a 15"+ rim, not a 13" one, and pretty much nobody wants to do it manually anymore, but eventually I did find a motorcycle shop that also did a lot of ATV and other small vehicle work that would get the job done.

I haven't been on a wet street with them yet, but certainly their dry road performance already feels like a vast improvement over the stock tires. I can't recommend replacing the stock tires strongly enough now. We even have a few spots where they are doing road work and they've temporarily filled in some spots near a corner on my commute with just dirt, and the grip there is still really good. Hopefully their wet weather performance holds up as well as their dry weather performance has. They also just cut off the rest of the weld on my side stand after making sure that the disconnect from the cable wouldn't cause any issues.

I'll also throw in that I'm enjoying the warmer weather now, too. Although it's starting to get hot (into the upper 80s) and will certainly get a lot hotter come summer, the warmer weather seems to help me get a tad bit more performance out of the batteries, with my top end getting up to around 46 on the flat with no breeze (as compared to closer to 44 during the winter). Not a huge difference, but it does feel just a tiny bit more responsive in warmer weather as well. Of course that could just be me being more responsive when I'm not cold. ;)

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

Mikie
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Hey Lenny- long time me no be here. I also had a crack in my kickstand. I found a short piece of steel pipe that slid right over the cracked part and had my welder weld it up and it worked great. I have been down for 9 months. Blew up my controller so I am towing the scooter in to have my tech reinstall it and hook up the regen too. I have been through 6 bad batteries in the last 9 months and so far xtreme has replaced them all. I had to tear everything apart because my tech made it really hard to take out batteries when he put all of the new upgrade controller and solenoid or whatever it is called in.(I am in a hurry to get back to work) So I tore all the guts out and I made the plate that all the componants sit on: easily moveable UP so that I can get underneath to the batteries. He also put a kill switch in for some reason that I have to shut off or all the batteries drain. I know that does not sound right does it? So I have drained them hense the bad batteries. When I have him put all the components back in I will have him fix this kill switch. Got to go....Cheers....Mikie

mikie

zarlor
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Dang, Mike, that sounds like a lot more trouble than it's worth. At least you were able to get replacements on the batts. No issues so far with mine, thankfully, even without a BMS. (*Knocks on wood*). Maybe you should look at one of the CuMoCo bikes instead. I'm seriously considering selling off my 3500 (and getting a motorcycle license) and getting one of John's bikes. They seem to be shaping up pretty good, but I'm in no rush and wouldn't mind seeing a few more reviews on their final, shipping product first. Sounds like they're getting pretty close, though, so it might be worth looking into for you. Should be a lot less headache, if nothing else!

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

Iccarus
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Re: Just got my XM-3500Li

Hi Lenny, nice to hear from you (Mikie too) glad you guys are still at it. I'm still racking up miles but have had a few problems. Running at 28 cells and having my disconnect switches so I can charge the 24 separate and the other 4 with a different charger got me at the start up of this season. After charging I forgot to switch my control ground (smaller green wire connected to negative pole) from 24th to 28th cell when I engaged the disconnects to join the cells I got smoke. I was lucky, it just melted the two wires in the harness and I was able to replace them and the Kelly controller still worked fine. I did the same thing once with a stock controller and it fried it. I think it's best to stay at 24 like you are Lenny. It is nice being able to go 54mph though. Keep up the good work.

Bill

2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl

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