Upgrading the S-650

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adg016
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Upgrading the S-650

Hi all,

I've been sifting through various old threads, learning as much as I can about upgrading the Schwinn S-650 I got recently. I have many questions, so any help/advice anyone would like to offer will be welcome.

A few facts. The unit has a 650-Watt motor, 24 V 30A controller, and two 12 V 15 ah batteries wired in series.

I like the idea of the Powerpack setup run at 48V, but that whole setup and necessary ancillary items will be quite expensive. If I added another 12V 15 ah battery and put in a 36V controller, what gains could I expect power and speed wise? Also, will it reduce range this way? I can't seem to find the Enduring SLA 15A batteries that seem to have come with my scooter...only 10A or 12A. Ideas there? Is it generally not a good idea to mix/match amp ratings?

What about this inexpensive Currie 1000W motor versus my existing 650W? Is it significantly better?

http://www.thesuperkids.com/10wabrmofors.html

Anyone make any interesting battery box to accommodate more batteries on this shallow and short 24V battery box that comes on the scooter? Regardless of battery setup, do people in general still charge batteries through the port on the scooter frame?

I know that weight is at issue, but honestly is there any reason given enough amp rating that SLA batteries can't get you good range...say maybe 20 ah ones?

Ok, let's start there. Lots of questions, I know. Thanks!! =)

e-doggies
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Re: Upgrading the S-650

Hello, welcome to V.

Are you sure you have a 650W motor? The specs on SuperKids call it 500W, and same for the I-Zip 650 that replaced it.

The 1000W motor seems to be pretty tough. It's been used in Schwinn Stealths and overvolted to 60V, I believe. You could purchase that kit from Superkids and add another 15Ah battery "somewhere" and have a noticeably faster scoot. You might also buy the motor separately, and shop for a controller that is a bit peppier. My experience with stock Currie controllers is that they are kinda slow on the acceleration. I'm at the point that I need instant throttle response and a quick ramp-up. I'm sure they do it for safety so the kids don't get thrown off.

I have not personally modified any battery boxes. I have, in the past 2 months, re-wired my Lashout, S600, and S750 to parallel bank charging using one 12V automotive charger. If you upgrade to 36V or 48V, and continue to string charge through the port, you will need a 36V or 48V charger. Continuous string charging without any means to equalize, will shorten your battery pack life. I've been very satisfied with using a single 12V charger. It takes a bit of effort to rewire, plus the cost of wire, terminals, fuses, and connectors. But, I'm glad I did it. I don't think it would be a practical approach for more than 48V, or wire gauges bigger than 10AWG, however.

Hope this helps some.

Harlow

adg016
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Re: Upgrading the S-650

Harlow,

I was concerned about this very same issue, but called Currie. They had so many different builds with different motors on different frames, different model number, all the possible weird variation builds coming out of China. I read them what the motor itself said, and they seemed pretty certain it was a 650. It says it in two places on the motor itself, in fact.

The 1000W you're talking about is the chain driven motor, not the direct drive, right? How fast can I expect the scooter to go with that at 36V?

I was absolutely planning on getting a new appropriate charger to charge the pack through the frame. What other connectors and fuses were you referring to? Can't I just wire the new battery in series just like it came as OE?

One more question...the Currie 36V controllers won't cause my chain drive to have issues with the "shutdown" issue I hear about the direct drive Curries, will it? Trying to understand if the direct drive controllers are the same as the chain drive. There's no indication at any of the big vendors online.

Thanks!

e-doggies
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Re: Upgrading the S-650

Glad you got the 650W motor! Yes, the 1000W motor we're talking about is a chain drive. I beleive it is the same motor on a stock Stealth with a drive pinion instead of a chain sproket. How fast you ultimately can go will also depend on your choice of gear ratios.

The connectors, fuses, etc. that I mentioned were to wire each battery termnal to it's own Anderson PowerPole contact. The housings all slide together with dovetails. You can easily create a 2X3 "plug" with the PP's. When nothing is plugged-in, each battery is essentially a stand-alone 12V 15Ah battery. When you plug in the "charger plug", it combines all the positives together, and all the negatives together, and forms a parallel pack of 12V 45Ah. You can then connect your 12V charger. When you are ready to ride, remove the charger plug and replace with a "jumper plug" that forms interconnects and creates a 36V 15Ah series pack. In this scenario, you would completely bypass your charging port. And you'd have to have a 12V charger capable of handling a 45Ah battery.

Yes, you absolutely can just add a third battery in series with the original two. My only point is that over time, each battery will charge and discharge at a different rate and therefore the pack will become more and more out of balance. Eventually, one will likely be cooked by the charger, probably vent, and you'd have a doorstop.

I could not say with certainty, if Currie's gear drive controllers are the same as the chain drives. It's really a factor of Voltage and Wattage (or Amps) when you talking controllers. I do know that on my 2006 Stealth, if I coast too fast, it will shutdown the controller. With a chain drive, you can easily eliminate that with a freewheel cluth on the motor or the wheel. I'll bet your S650 has fixed sprockets. Yes?

Harlow

adg016
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Re: Upgrading the S-650

I'm assuming stock gearing, giving another 12V, 24 to 36, and running the 100W motor what gains in top speed can be expected? 5 mph?

As for all the connectors, the batteries that came stock just have wires connecting the tabs and some solder, nothing else that I can see. I guess you're talking about if I were to charge them with a standard 12V battery. I'd be getting a 36V version of the charger I have, so I don't think there will be an issue there.

As for the different rates of each battery and the charging, I mean, even the Stealth 1,000 had 3 batts wired in series. I don't think I'd be doing anything different than Currie did from the factory. =)

Still curious about running different amp batts together and whether that's a bad idea.

Wardon57
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Re: Upgrading the S-650

I can tell you that a stealth 1000 gear drive will run at 30 mph easy at 60v, and about 25 at 48v. We have four gear driven stealth 1000s two running 48v with 60v boost and two at 36v, two Razor e500 one running 36v one at 24v, one schwinn missile fs (450w 24v) running 36v, tryed this one at 48v but the controller didn't like that. All of these still have the stock controllers and the two over volted chain drives pull away from the 1000s on the flat when just using the 48v.

So my recommendation would be to slap another 12v battery in yours and see if you like it, your motor and controller should hold up just fine at 36v.

We run smaller batteries with larger ones, just remember that your range is determined by the smallest battery in the pack.

adg016
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Re: Upgrading the S-650

Great specific info here. Thanks. Are you saying that all of these are chain drives? The 1000 that they outrun, is that a direct drive??

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