Amplux High performance electric motorcycle

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reikiman
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Amplux High performance electric motorcycle

A home built motorcycle...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae8uOz5PnRM

vja4Him
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Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Thanks for sharing the video of your electric motorcycle. I'll be installing an electric motor on my Electra Townie soon ... !!! Won't be able to keep up with you, but I'll be getting around town just fine, and still get my aerobic exercise ... Here is video about a cool electric vehicle:

Cedric Lynch electric vehicle (60,000 miles and no maintainenance!):

http://www.agnimotors.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=37

itchypalm36
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

hey that's pretty impressive range on that bike, i like it a lot. i just joined this Forum someone posted my "Amplux" motorcycle video on here, i never knew about this site until now. glad to see there is a large EV forum out here.

pgt400
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Hey Itchy, very impressive build, nice workmanship and cool that you incorporate the gearbox. Tell us more about how your rd250 can do 91 mph with a etek running on 36 volts & 50 ah.... What is your current at 91 mph? 300+ amps? What kind of range do you get? You should put your bike on evalbum.com with more pictures, especially of the gearbox interface.

Phil

itchypalm36
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

hey thanks, when i first got interested in EV's i was often disappointed with the performance of them. be being some one who used to fabricate turbo kits on cars knows much about squeezing power and speed in every way possible. i started with a light weight chassis, a 75' rd250, stripped absolutely everything un necessary to the build, engine, tanks... then i strapped 3 fairly light weight 12v 55ah batteries on it. used a 1/4" thick aluminum plate to make a chain drive bracket from the etek motor to the transmission input.

i kept the bike as light as possible (i still have yet to weigh the bike) i used ALL LED lighting, there is very little draw from the entire lighting system including the headlight.

the transmission made the biggest difference, it allows the 1st gear ratio to be 1:0.38 and the final 6th gear to be 1:1.27
these do not include the transmission to rear wheel reduction which was 1:0.33

and yes the amps to fly up so high the nettle on my gauge cannot read any further, lol

if i keep it in my paints and drive like a sane person i can get around 24 miles per charge, not the greatest, but i'm allready making another bike which i want atleast 2x the range and i want to get it above 100mph.

ill post some more pics on that other website soon, thanks for lookin!

pgt400
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Cool, whats the real top speed 45-48? Range about 15 miles?

itchypalm36
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

why do you not believe the top speed, have you made a 6-speed light weight electric motorcycle? if not then please do not make accusations. the top-speed i achieved after full charge is 91mph i tested this using both a GPS and the bike speedometer. both of them were within 2mph of each other. like i said earlier i wanted to make a high performance EV not a long range golf-kart. i've ran into many road blocks building the bike and trying to get its max performance, but i can say i'm very happy with its performance, and i know i can even do even better with my next motorcycle.

like stated earlier, driven normally it can travel 24 miles on a charge.

and naturally if you beat on it, the miles/charge goes down quite a bit.

if it weren't snowing in Michigan right now i would strap up the camera and prove the speed, but i cant until spring time

pgt400
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

The gear box will make no difference on the top end, only the final ratio matters. With 36 volts and a single etek you can't get more then 7000 watts or so and with low eff. 7-8hp is not enough to move a bike the size, weight and frontal area of yours 91 mph. You did a very nice fab job, are you going to post pictures of your gearbox interface? Is it clutchless?

chas_stevenson
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

The gear box will make no difference on the top end, only the final ratio matters.

This statement is correct . The gears will not effect the top speed only the final gear ratio will, however, using gears a bike can obtain higher speeds than not using gears because you can keep the motor closer to it's sweet spot as you accelerate. I have 2 bikes which use gears to obtain a higher speed than they could without. If I tried to use these bikes with only one gear which was equal to the highest ratio they would require help to get started moving. I have been using gears for my motors for several years and they do make a difference. My first try at this gave me a bike that could run 40 MPH using a 400-watt motor with a controller output of 36-volts and 25 amps, 900-watts. I guess you would tell me there is not enough power to go 40 MPH using a 400 watt motor @ 36-volts. Well you are wrong!!! I did re-gear the bike and top speed is now 23 MPH because it would not go very far when geared so high and it did not climb very well even in first gear at that ratio. Now the bike climbs any hill I have tried, I live in a very hilly area, and has a reasonable top speed. The simple point is, top speed is one thing and normal speed and use is another. I know if I am getting low on battery power I can down-shift and get more range from my bike. I can see how itchypalm36 can get the kind of performance claimed. Until you have tried it, don't knock it.

Grandpa Chas S.

pgt400
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Any 12 year old whose ridden a 10 speed bike knows gears make a difference...but thanks for stating the obvious. IMHO the only way that bike is hitting 91 mph is with a strong tail wind and a serious decline (as in ski jump). Lets not say I'm knocking it, because Itchy's build is very impressive. Lets just say I'm highly skeptical of the claimed top speed.

chas_stevenson
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

pgt400,

Sorry I didn't mean it like it sounded. I was only using it as a figure of speech. I do agree it sounds like a lot of speed but when I tell people I was able to do 40MPH on my 400-watt bike they are also skeptical

I didn't mean to imply a negative, I was just looking at it from the other side of the coin.

Grandpa Chas S.

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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

if it weren't snowing in Michigan right now

Hi, what part of Michigan are you in? I'm in Ann Arbor and I'd love to come see your bike. I'm also interested in seeing more details about how you incorporated the gearbox.

Thanks for posting!

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

pgt400
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Thats cool Chas....40mph out of 400watts is impressive on an ebike. My Ninja uses about 2880 watts for 45mph (72 volts x 40 amps) or about 4 hp. Doubling of horsepower only results in a velocity increase of about 26% or 55 Mph. What about 90 mph? Doubling the velocity (45 mph example) will require 8x more horse power! In the case of a bike the size/weight of mine and itchys....to hit 90 would require 32 horsepower. I just don't think you can get 23,000 watts from a 36v etek motor....700 amps? BOOM!

itchypalm36
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

i live here in grand rapids michigan, if you would like to come see it email me at redvalleymotorsport [at] gmail.com

and i guess i will have to prove this to end this discussion, next warm day, but most likely spring time knowing Michigan, i will strap the camera to the bike facing the GPS and film another passing a car doing 85ish.

im going to post more pictures and stuff on that EV website, i cannot remember the name right now, ill post a link later

pgt400
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Itchy, you don't need to prove anything! Now lets see some pictures of that gearbox interface, did you retain the clutch? Do you have the original etek or the Mars motor? What controller? Kelly? If so do you use regen?, regen would really be strong with the gearbox. Are you going to put the details on evalbum.com ? There's only a few on there now with gearboxs. How far are you from Clearlake Mi?

itchypalm36
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

hey guys, heres more pictures of the build and finished bike.

http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=2240

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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Itchy, VERY nice bike
looks like you got the record for top speed etek non NEDRA
Ben Vanderhoek http://www.evalbum.com/2205 73 mph transmission also
I hadn't seen an Etek above 50 mph till these 2
But I think Electricmotorsport has squeezed out 62 mph on the GPR-S direct drive
for 1.98 kwh of battery thats good range
how did you make LED headlight?
100 LED each light pointing out?
how focus beam?
did you get board loaded with LED's?

Marc, Fresno,CA where the Sierra Nevada Mountains are hidden (smog)

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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

i live here in grand rapids michigan, if you would like to come see it email me at redvalleymotorsport [at] gmail.com

and i guess i will have to prove this to end this discussion, next warm day, but most likely spring time knowing Michigan, i will strap the camera to the bike facing the GPS and film another passing a car doing 85ish.

im going to post more pictures and stuff on that EV website, i cannot remember the name right now, ill post a link later

You don't need to prove anything here. I think I can speak for most here that we are all curious and we all want to learn more about anything with an electric drivetrain...

Nice build and only $2500, impressive. Do you have a future project planned? With the price of LiFEPO4 coming down, I am seriously thinking about making a kit bike myself. A slippery fairing to let you cut through the air for more efficiency & speed is the key for a single/double occupant electric motorcycle/vehicle. That is the idea I have in mind...something that you can ride in the rain & not get wet, well at least not completely soaked from head to toe. I commuted to work for 8 years on a Kawasaki ZX600R, 100 miles per day before moving closer to work and believe me riding in the pouring rain and getting soaked like a hosed dog is no fun.

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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Thats cool Chas....40mph out of 400watts is impressive on an ebike. My Ninja uses about 2880 watts for 45mph (72 volts x 40 amps) or about 4 hp. Doubling of horsepower only results in a velocity increase of about 26% or 55 Mph. What about 90 mph? Doubling the velocity (45 mph example) will require 8x more horse power! In the case of a bike the size/weight of mine and itchys....to hit 90 would require 32 horsepower. I just don't think you can get 23,000 watts from a 36v etek motor....700 amps? BOOM!

It has been quite some time now since I worked at General Motors Proving Ground, but my experience there points out that there is some flaw in your calculations...
While testing vehicles on the track to determine the capacity needed for dynamometers, we measured rear wheel torque at various speeds. I remember that it took 12 horsepower delivered to the rear wheels to drive a 3000 pound car (Pontiac Tempest) at a velocity of 60 MPH. I'm sure the wind resistance and losses on a compact car are at least triple that of a motorcycle. Someone has to go back and check their figures.

Dickey_b
Waste Not, Want Not

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Re: Amplux High performance electric motorcycle

Hello, Even if you weigh only 8 lbs., there is great doubt in my mind that you are really going 90+ with an Etek original flavor. Maybe downhill, maybe. I have a Yamaha dirt bike with a 6 speed gearbox and its ICE is over 16HP and it might do 60mph. We may not believe you but that just means you will have to prove this miraculous feat--even more miraculous at only 36v!

Also, I note your batteries are extremely low--be careful with that protrusion because the front fork travel could cause you to bottom out and lose control.
Jeff K.

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Re: Amplux High performance electric motorcycle

nice build Itchy;
are you really just being a "gear-jammer" with this setup?
It appears you have by-passed the clutch.
I'm working towards a similar end with a kawasaki KZ400 donor, but I intend to spin the crankshaft and keep the primary and clutch assembly.
Saw somebody else do something like you did; do you really not need a clutch??

Jeff

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Re: Amplux High performance electric motorcycle

Thats very cool.
If you are ever in southern Oregon come visit Brammo.
You can take a tour, ride some bikes and talk with our engineering team.
Adrian Stewart

myocardia
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Re: Amplux High performance electric motorcycle

Adrian, welcome to visforvoltage. I think I most likely speak for the majority of members here when I say that we are quite interested in your thoughts on two-wheeled EV's, whether they be ones made by Brammo, or not.

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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Thats cool Chas....40mph out of 400watts is impressive on an ebike. My Ninja uses about 2880 watts for 45mph (72 volts x 40 amps) or about 4 hp. Doubling of horsepower only results in a velocity increase of about 26% or 55 Mph. What about 90 mph? Doubling the velocity (45 mph example) will require 8x more horse power! In the case of a bike the size/weight of mine and itchys....to hit 90 would require 32 horsepower. I just don't think you can get 23,000 watts from a 36v etek motor....700 amps? BOOM!

All of this is really Interesting.
Are you sure about your numbers? I thought dubble the speed ex.45 to 90 mph demanded 4 times the power and not 8 times.
I can drive at 50kmh using 1.8kW and going 90kmh consuming 5.8kW. This works out to be a 3.2 factor wich is reasnoble since the speed is not exactly dubbled.
If what you say is correct you should be able to drive 22.5mph (Half of 45mph) using 72Vx40A= 2880W/8= 360W!?
This can simply not be correct?

Best regards /Axel

ericmattessich
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Re: Amplux High performance electric motorcycle

Hey Itchy, I was wondering what weight gear oil your using in that bike? I know my cr125 uses 85w, but thats with a hot combustion chamber next store. I wonder if you could reduce the weight and get a little more speed out of it(and range also). just a thought, anyway you've inspired me to leave my 6-speed in the cr when the conversion happens. Good luck with the bike.

-Eric

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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....
Thats cool Chas....40mph out of 400watts is impressive on an ebike. My Ninja uses about 2880 watts for 45mph (72 volts x 40 amps) or about 4 hp. Doubling of horsepower only results in a velocity increase of about 26% or 55 Mph. What about 90 mph? Doubling the velocity (45 mph example) will require 8x more horse power! In the case of a bike the size/weight of mine and itchys....to hit 90 would require 32 horsepower. I just don't think you can get 23,000 watts from a 36v etek motor....700 amps? BOOM!

It has been quite some time now since I worked at General Motors Proving Ground, but my experience there points out that there is some flaw in your calculations...
While testing vehicles on the track to determine the capacity needed for dynamometers, we measured rear wheel torque at various speeds. I remember that it took 12 horsepower delivered to the rear wheels to drive a 3000 pound car (Pontiac Tempest) at a velocity of 60 MPH. I'm sure the wind resistance and losses on a compact car are at least triple that of a motorcycle. Someone has to go back and check their figures.

I'm sorry but I think you have to go back and check your figures. A average car has about a .3 drag coefficient while the most aerodynamic motorcycle has a .9 drag coefficient. The cd is usless however without the other variables like surface area and atmospheric pressure.
Here are some calculations: Standard atmosphere (sea level, 15 degree C, and a barometer of 29.92), Car at .35 Cd. Bike at 1.0 Cd. Car surface area at 19 sq. ft. Bike surface area at 7 sq. ft. (surface areas and Cds are approximate numbers).

50 kts

Bike Dt = 59.32 lbs

Car Dt = 56.35 lbs

100 kts:

Bike Dt = 237.3 lbs

Car Dt = 225.44 lbs

150 kts:

Bike Dt = 533.90 lbs

Car Dt = 507.20 lbs

Anyways, itchypalm's statements are completly rediculous. If you look at his statements they're all just air, Pgt400 has it right.

greenation
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Where did you find the 6 speed gear box? I have been trying to find something that will work for my conversion, but the best bet so far is a variable pitch pulley which I am not sure yet how to set up with my system.

NF

ericmattessich
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Re: Cedric Lynch -- Cool Electric Vehicle ....

Where did you find the 6 speed gear box? I have been trying to find something that will work for my conversion, but the best bet so far is a variable pitch pulley which I am not sure yet how to set up with my system.

eBay is littered with old two-stroke bottom ends (built in transmissions) for cheap. Something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YZ-125-79-engine-bottom-end-with-stator-79-yz125_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2eabac80b0QQitemZ2004... would work great, though some of the gears might not be needed

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