No lights or horn on XM-3500

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dirtywater
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No lights or horn on XM-3500

Howdy,

My XM-3500li has been in storage for the last 3 weeks. I took it out and rode it to work today. Everything worked fine on the way to work. So far so good.

When I tried to ride home I found that I had no lights or horn. Specifically, these things worked:

-Motor
-Charge indicator
-LCD clock thingie

These things didn't work:
-Headlights
-Turn signals
-Horn
-Dashboard backlight

I misplaced my manual so I'm not sure if there's an obvious fuse that I should be checking. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Jeremy

garygid
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

12-volt supply is gone, most likely for one of several reasons:
input fuse blown (maybe 4 amps, to DC-to-DC converter),
output fuse (maybe 15 amps) blown,
DC-DC converter died, or a
loose connection in that area.

Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

olina
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

I think the DC-converter or the fuse of DC is broken.i suggest first chang the fuse,if it still not work ,chang the DC converter.

dirtywater
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

Thanks for the replies. I'll check out the DC-DC converter and the fuses. I think they're under the dashboard?

zarlor
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

DC/DC is under the dash (although you have to take off the front cowling to get down there anyway). I'm not positive on the fuse. The last time I had mine open I didn't particularly look for any fuses so I don't remember if it's there or not.

Lenny Zimmermann
Metairie, LA

JavierCentenera
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

Yes, take off the front cowling and take a glance. The fuse for the DC-DC is there

strawhistle
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

hi, to get at the fuses and dc-dc converter first remove one screw under the very front that holds the (bra) vshaped strip. one screw then push forward on both sides of the bra till the tabs are free'd from the black dash console , then lift off trying not to break the tabs off ! Thenyou will see 8? screws that hold the console in place unscrew them and the console will come up enough to work on fuses or dc-dc converter if the dc-dc is broke you will have to pry it loose as it is stuck down with 2sided tape let us know what you find LaTeR

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

rossasaurus
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

Thanks for the guidance guys; I went to ride mine the other day and...no lights!
It too, like Dirtywaters, has been in storage.
When I parked it, the lights were working.
I'll stop right there and bite me tongue.

R

garygid
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

Since the 3500Li is similar to the 5000Li, you can find helpful pictures in the "Skinning the XM-5000Li" thread, about the 6th comment, for accessing under the Instrument Cluster.

Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

dirtywater
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

Since the 3500Li is similar to the 5000Li, you can find helpful pictures in the "Skinning the XM-5000Li" thread, about the 6th comment, for accessing under the Instrument Cluster.

I noticed those pics before; they will be very helpful when I finally get around to fixing this. Thanks!!

rossasaurus
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

DW,
I fixed my 3500 the other day.
It was the fuse in the holder in the black wire to the DC-DC converter.
There is a spare inside the white fuse holder/case.
I couldn't read the value on the fuse as it's very lightly stamped into the metal.
Hopefully the replacement will last. Without a schematic, wiring diagram or manual, it's pretty hard to know what fuse values to use.

A note: While in there, look at the silver plastic tabs just above the headlights; there's two, one either side. Mine were both broken off, so the tabs were still bolted to the metal sub-frame, but the cowling was completely free and floating, on the top-side at leaast. Would you believe I had to use...yes, baling wire wrapped down under the headlights and up over the sub-frame to secure the cowling a bit more.
It's not terribly loose, but it explains why my windshield seemed to be separating from the cowling on the front...the cowling was dropping!
Anther very poor design element and I expect it's there on the 5000 as well.
Did it happen in shipping, or from rough roads? who knows?

I'm enjoying my 3500 now despite the issues; accept it for what it is and cruise around at 35-40mph, gets me to the shop and back each day about seven miles. May add another cell or two for a bit more speed.

I've gotta say, when I come down a long steep hill with a stop sign and a cross-highway at the bottom, I tremble a little not knowing what might give-out next. Brake levers gonna snap? a bad weld somewhere, a short in the throttle circuit?
Leads me to be conservative on it and not "jump out" into traffic or be too daring with it. Just a wee maxi scooter for scootin' around town.
I'm impressed with it's climbing ability; I took it up one of the steeper coastal hills around here and it grunted right up, slowing to 20 at one point, but then very slowly accelerating the rest of the way on up.

We're tearing out walls in our shop space and hope to open within a month, and I've decided not to sell the 3500 in the shop for now, for the above reasons, among others.

I figure the Mainland Chinese scooters could be quite fantastic within five years if they learn from their mistakes, take a longer-term view of their brand and market share, and not do things like put a 48v DC-DC in a 60v scooter and hope it lasts, etc
It's up to them.
For me, I'll hope for a larger-format scooter from Taiwan, or at least with Taiwanese oversight for quality control, or I'll spring for the new reduced-price Vectrix, or we'll see what comes along this Spring!
I expect the 3500 will be the first vehicle in my "used" lot come May.

Sorry I rambled so much.
The fuse change only took me about 20 minutes, without the baling wire job, in fact, this post took longer to write than the fuse change did!

R

dirtywater
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

The weather has cleared up here in New England, so I was able to go out to the shed and take a look at this today.

Getting access under the dashboard was easy. I followed the guidance given in this thread and in Gary's "Skinning the XM-5000Li" thread. I also had a wiring schematic from X-Treme Customer Support which was helpful. If it isn't posted on this board already, I'll find a place to post it.

The input fuse is unmarked (it is perhaps 4A or 5A). The output fuse is marked "20A 250V." There is continuity across each fuse.

(All voltage measurements are relative to the "ground" end of the battery pack)

With the key in the "off" position, there is no voltage at the input fuse. With the key in the "on" position, there is 66V on both sides of the input fuse. So far so good.

However, with the key in the "on" position there is no voltage at either end of the output fuse. I reseated the wiring connector that sits between the DC-DC converter and the output fuse, but still no luck. So it looks like the DC-DC is bad.

I noticed something strange. There is 25V on the casing of the DC-DC converter. But this voltage drops the longer I leave the key in the "on" position. It ended up around 16V. I turned the key off, waiting 30 seconds, then turned it on again. The casing was up to 17V. I don't know why it behaves that way.

chas_stevenson
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

I also had a wiring schematic from X-Treme Customer Support which was helpful. If it isn't posted on this board already, I'll find a place to post it.

We have a place on the site where all of the manuals and diagrams are placed. It is the EV DownLoad Library. If you would email the document to chas_stevenson at yahoo.com he will post it on the Library with the other manuals. You may want to look at the manual currently posted to see if it is already posted as we have a large number of manuals for the X-Treme EVs. If it is not there I would be happy to include it in the X-Treme section of the Library.

Thanks,
Grandpa Chas S.

BTW if there is voltage on the case I would say you may have a short inside and you will need to repair or replace the unit. There should be no voltage present on the case.

garygid
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

I agree, the DC-toDC Converter must be "toast".
Voltage on the case would seem unusual.
Do get it fixed (or replaced, which is probably less expensive).

The in and out fuses noted on the 5000Li circuit diagram
in the included manual are 5 amps in and 15 amps out.
But, who knows if they actually used those values.

I am going to order some LED brake/tail lights to drop
the "brake" current from around 6 amps down to maybe a half amp.

I am going to start re-assembly tomorrow, and I will try
to actually look and check those values before I put
the windscreen/instrument cluster back in place.

Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

garygid
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

There are no documents listed for the X-Treme 3000, 3500Li, or 5000Li.
The 3500Li schematic would be a start.

Maybe if we ask, they will make other documents available in electronic form.

Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

Iccarus
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

I've been running 24 cells (87v) for a long time now and my converter is still fine. I wonder if they started puting different converters in later models. I even put a 12v power supply in the little removable panel on the left side of the panel. I use it for cell phone charging and a tom tom. Coming up on 2000km and nothings blown yet. We've tried up to 30 cells successfully! (Experiment at your own risk though) I agree ross, they need alot of improvment right now, but they sure are fun!

2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl

Henry42
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Re: No lights or horn on XM-3500

When the DC-DC converter stopped working on the XM-3500Li, I purchased a DC-DC converter from mouser.com. http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=QBW018A0B1Zvirtualkey61920000virtualkey894-QBW018A0B1Z
It took a while for me to figure out how to attach the on/off lead (I had to read the data sheet :-)) so that it would work.

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