BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start during the ride - why not?

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AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

The dealer said, that his repair engineer could have the bike fixed in 1 day (that he has all the necessary repair parts, including a new battery), but that importer from Rome is not giving him a permission to open the bike and that they want to check it by themselves.
However in 3 week, they still haven't done so.

This is the end of the road for me to recommend the Vectrix to anyone anymore.

Additionally, I have found an Italian European Cunsumer Centre and found some documents about my rights: http://www.ecc-netitalia.it/inglese/Legislation/Legislation.htm
http://www.ecc-netitalia.it/inglese/Legislation/Consumer%20Protection%20-%2010%20basic%20principles.pdf

Under EU law, if
a product you buy does not conform to the
agreement you made with the seller at the time
of purchase, you can take it back and have it
repaired or replaced. Alternatively, you can ask
for a price reduction, or a complete refund of
your money. This applies for up to two years
after you take delivery of the product. And for
the first six months after delivery, the burden of
proof is on the seller – not the consumer – to
prove that the product sold conformed with the
contract of sale.

I'm also in contact with my country's lawyer from Slovenian European Consumer Centre about my options.

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

I have gotten a reply from Slovenian office of European Consumer Centre and I have to make a complaint with them and attach all my documents and they will contact an Italian office (all EU offices of European Consumer Centre share information) and they (Italians) will continue the procedure to speed up the procedure of warranty repair.
Mike, I suggest you do the same with Austrian office of European Consumer Centre.
I've been patient and polite, but enough is enough.

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

In Austria as consumer you must give the dealer a chance to repair or replace it.

I'm giving them all the chances to repair the bike. I've even driven back home with an empty trailer even though I've been promised a fixed bike in 4 days and I stayed there for that long. What bothers me is, that the bike could have been repaired, but the repair engineer is not allowed to, because he has to wait for them to take a look. But they aren't taking a look. And, why do they have to take a look? What do they hope to find?

Hut how long is long enough to give them a chance to repair? Driving season is going right by me and in a few months I have to extend my registration. How am I going to do that without a bike? I'm also driving every day to work and back, needlessly, with my car. People are asking me: 'Where's you bike?' and I have no excuses left to tell them.

If at least, they would tell me, that my bike won't get fixed and I'd have it right at home, doing work on LiPo battery pack. As it is, the bike is standing there, getting egg shaped tires because of lack of driving.

jmap
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Sorry to hear that... It seems that you reached a dead end. Vectrix Corp. is not doing it well... Maybe we are seeing the end coming... I still count with them here but I do not know for how long...

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

The sad thing is, that 3 weeks ago, when Vectrix was still existing, they could/should have repaired my bike. Instead, they were just waiting, doing nothing...

Well, if they don't exist anymore, no one can say to my dealer not to open my bike anymore, so if he does have spare parts, as he said he does, he can fix my bike.

jmap
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

The sad thing is, that 3 weeks ago, when Vectrix was still existing, they could/should have repaired my bike. Instead, they were just waiting, doing nothing...

Well, if they don't exist anymore, no one can say to my dealer not to open my bike anymore, so if he does have spare parts, as he said he does, he can fix my bike.

It seems that Vectrix is shutting down all web sites. Probably your dealer won't be visited anymore. Talk with him about it, be nice but don't be so polite because you are near to loose your warranty when Vectrix announces bankruptcy. Proceed fast before it happens. You dealer is obligated by law in time window to do the repair. You have consumer rights! Convince him to give Vectrix headquarters a short term, after that he must repair your Vectrix... Probably he won't receive an answer and will assume the repair. Let's hope so...

RaDy
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

I got my gearbox changed, and i am waiting for a new throttle and today i think Vectrix is Bankrupt! Maybe i wont see a new throttle? Ill let you know.
Raj

jmap
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

I got my gearbox changed, and i am waiting for a new throttle and today i think Vectrix is Bankrupt! Maybe i wont see a new throttle? Ill let you know.
Raj

That's bad... But it leaves a question... What they are going to do with the material in stock? If they don't support warranty because they don't have money, so they shouldn't be able to sell it also. All the material will be frozen due to the bankruptcy process? That's even worse because it will last months or years...

clagros
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hi, I found this post because I'm seeing funny things in my 3 months old vectrix, 2500 kmt.
1- A few days ago, when starting the scooter at the morning, the fans began blowing after I put the key on. Temp outside was above 20C. Called the dealer and he told that looks normal and to keep riding.
2- This morning, riding normally after less than 5 minutes (outside temp above 30C) the 'wrench' indicator turned on. Stopped-switch off and on and the light gone. Bar indicator was 6-7.
3- After that, 3 mins of agressive riding just over 90 km/h but less than 100, and the red battery light lites ON. Stopped the bike at work with about 3-4 bars left and 9 kmt estimated ranged. Outside was hot.
4- After the bike was parked 9 hours, when the 3 first after the ride was under the sun and then in shadow, THE BATTERY WAS COMPLETELY EMPTY, range "0". I rode very slowly to a gas station and charged 2 bars 30 mist to get home.
5- I charged the bike for about 4-5 hours. After that the indicator was full, but the BATHOT message was on. Temp of batteries 47 C !!!!
What can you tell me? It is just because is a very hot summer or something is wrong?
Thanks!
A vectrix sufferer.

mikemitbike
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hi if you have the new software, check voltage and temperature often. By the way the "spare"vectrix had never
such problems even under hot conditions. Mine had similar problems causing a hot battery during riding and
charging and rapide loss of range...

Greetings mike

jmap
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hi, I found this post because I'm seeing funny things in my 3 months old vectrix, 2500 kmt.
1- A few days ago, when starting the scooter at the morning, the fans began blowing after I put the key on. Temp outside was above 20C. Called the dealer and he told that looks normal and to keep riding.
2- This morning, riding normally after less than 5 minutes (outside temp above 30C) the 'wrench' indicator turned on. Stopped-switch off and on and the light gone. Bar indicator was 6-7.
3- After that, 3 mins of agressive riding just over 90 km/h but less than 100, and the red battery light lites ON. Stopped the bike at work with about 3-4 bars left and 9 kmt estimated ranged. Outside was hot.
4- After the bike was parked 9 hours, when the 3 first after the ride was under the sun and then in shadow, THE BATTERY WAS COMPLETELY EMPTY, range "0". I rode very slowly to a gas station and charged 2 bars 30 mist to get home.
5- I charged the bike for about 4-5 hours. After that the indicator was full, but the BATHOT message was on. Temp of batteries 47 C !!!!
What can you tell me? It is just because is a very hot summer or something is wrong?
Thanks!
A vectrix sufferer.

Seems to me that you have a serious problem there. If you have the new firmware I cannot explain this without a serious problem. One possibility is that you have 2 smaller problems that are confusing the readings. I advise you to go to the shop to do computer readings about all temperatures to try to understand the problem. Bad sensors can introduce difficult answers but are easy to solve. What confuses me the most is the abnormal charge...

Mik
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hi, I found this post because I'm seeing funny things in my 3 months old vectrix, 2500 kmt.
1- A few days ago, when starting the scooter at the morning, the fans began blowing after I put the key on. Temp outside was above 20C. Called the dealer and he told that looks normal and to keep riding.
2- This morning, riding normally after less than 5 minutes (outside temp above 30C) the 'wrench' indicator turned on. Stopped-switch off and on and the light gone. Bar indicator was 6-7.
3- After that, 3 mins of agressive riding just over 90 km/h but less than 100, and the red battery light lites ON. Stopped the bike at work with about 3-4 bars left and 9 kmt estimated ranged. Outside was hot.
4- After the bike was parked 9 hours, when the 3 first after the ride was under the sun and then in shadow, THE BATTERY WAS COMPLETELY EMPTY, range "0". I rode very slowly to a gas station and charged 2 bars 30 mist to get home.
5- I charged the bike for about 4-5 hours. After that the indicator was full, but the BATHOT message was on. Temp of batteries 47 C !!!!
What can you tell me? It is just because is a very hot summer or something is wrong?
Thanks!
A vectrix sufferer.

re 1) This might be due to temperature difference between still hot battery and cooler morning air.

re 2,3,4 and5): See this post for the explanation to (y)our problem: http://visforvoltage.org/book/ev-collaborative-hand-books/6719#comment-38387

Have a look at the other pages in the Handbook as well, it will all become much clearer to you!

What you need to fix your problem is a shady parking spot and an ABCool 12V power supply .

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

clagros
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hi,
I'm not able to do such a modification in the bike, regardless of the warranty.
What I'd like to know is if its possible to put somewhere underneath the bike a small/ regular fan which will help to blow air towards the batteries.
I thought it is possible to stuck it between the front wheel and the front of the bike when charging. The fan can be plugged to the same place I charge the bike. This can (?) improve the air cooling during charging.
What do you think?
Thanks
Claudio

jmap
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hi,
I'm not able to do such a modification in the bike, regardless of the warranty.
What I'd like to know is if its possible to put somewhere underneath the bike a small/ regular fan which will help to blow air towards the batteries.
I thought it is possible to stuck it between the front wheel and the front of the bike when charging. The fan can be plugged to the same place I charge the bike. This can (?) improve the air cooling during charging.
What do you think?
Thanks
Claudio

The best way I know is to do a refrigerated charging. See my thread here!

I've also tried auxiliary fan cooling (directly to air entries) with the bike turned off but doesn't help much...

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

My bike has been fixed! I'm going to pick it up on Friday. I just have to get a motorcycle trailer and take a Friday off at work. Yippieee!!!!

jmap
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hurrray! Good luck with her!

ElectricLou
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

I am so glad for you! Please let us know if they replaced the entire battery or replaced just the bad cells. I wonder how the dealer will be paid for the repair since vectrix went belly up? Good Luck!

The Laird
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hi Andy,

I have just posted a comment on 'Fan differences' on the forum. However, something everyone should be well aware of is that the fan motors can fail.

The motors are 'brushless' D.C. motors. That is to say they are motors where the commutator/brush arrangement has been replaced with an electronic 'equivalent'. This makes these motors far more complex than is good for them and 'electronics failure' is far more likely than a failure in the old fashioned brush system.

Point is that these fan motors can and do fail. I have personal experience of this.

It is more than likely that if the battery symbol plus the thermometer symbol light up on the instrument panel PLUS the 'Batthot' indicator, you have the beginnings of an irreversible battery failure.

Don't ever let it overhaet.

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hi!

Yeah, I know that. But one of my battery fans wasn't working when the bike was new. I didn't know, that there are 2 fans, I heard 1 and I thought everything was ok. I did a first deep-discharge then, when the bike was new as instructions told me to do so, and I plugged the bike through overnight charge. Because one of the fans wasn't working, the front battery pack wasn't being cooled and when I came to bike in the morning, the bike was already charged and when I turned it on, I got BATHOT. It remained BATHOT for another three hours, with bike standing.
That was the beginning of my battery failure. That front battery pack overheating caused the front battery pack to lose some capacity. Even though, the plenum was replaced with a new one 2 weeks later, the battery wasn't. And every time, when I discharged the bike, the front pack would be empty earlier then the rear pack and every time it fully charged the bike, the front pack would get overcharged. And each over-discharge and each over-charge would decrease front pack's capacity even further until it broke down completely.

There was nothing I could do. I didn't know that there were two battery fans. I heard a fan under there, but I didn't know, there should be 2 of them. Also, since I put it through overnight charge, I couldn't do any temperature checking, since I was sleeping at that time.

Different cells capacity and cells temperature is the worse thing that can happen to a battery pack without a balancer.

The Laird
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Hi AndY1,

Isn't that exactly why owners need a proper instruction manual? A book that tells you what should happen when it is working correctly, what to look for in terms of a potential fault and how to make some easy checks to verify that all is well.

Vectrix failed because, amongst other things, they failed to provide adequate user instruction (no one knew what to expect). They failed to provide adequate battery charging/heating control and they failed to provide a user Workshop Manual (none of us knew what the some of the instrument panel symbols meant. What exactly does the red battery symbol mean? What is it trying to tell us?) . When you look carefully, you find that the vast majority of their problems were down to battery failures. Many of these could have been avoided if Vectrix had not behaved so secretively.

This is why we need to get this 'Open Source' as soon as possible. Then we can solve the problems which Vectrix built into the bike.

Happy riding.

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

I agree.

And the original manual told us to make 5 deep discharges when getting a new bike, but no instruction on what a deep discharge actually is:
- is it until the battery light lights up?
- is it when battery gauge drops to zero?
- is it until the bike doesn't move anymore?

And with cut-off Voltage of 108V (last year's firmware), doing deep discharges when getting a new bike with unbalanced cells is so battery damaging, it couldn't be worse.
Also, both battery fans should be under firmware's control. If any of them fails, charging should be stopped immediately and error message should get displayed.

Vectrix is a good bike, the problem was, they were 1 meter from reaching the finish line of perfecting it, when they slowed down the R&D to a crawl.

We were beta testers, but they weren't giving us any tools to work with. They were learning on costly mistakes and were fighting our repairs to avoid them.

Look at Windows Vista. A Microsoft failure. Look at Windows7? A perfected product.

No one was asking Vectrix to be paid for beta testing their product. We would have done it ourselves and we did it. Mik mostly.
They should have known, that their early adopters (we), would be engineers and like and they could have used our potential. Instead, they fought it.
What a shame.

turok
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

when I bougt mine, in addition to the manual, I received an update-manual as well.
This one says to discharge until the battery light lights up.

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

NJSteve
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

When I picked up my Vectrix recently, which supposedly has the Oct 2008 software, I was told by the dealer to do three discharge cycles and no mention was made of doing five. I believe he told me to not recharge it until the red battery light comes on and then plug in and do a full recharge. Also, I believe the main purpose was to calibrate the miles remaining display and the battery gauge.

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Yeah, that manual was with newer software. Older software told us to do 5 deep discharges.

jmap
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

I think that I still have the latest version but it mentions 5 deep discharges.

But the new software have new proceedings that you should be aware. Ask for the new instructions to the dealer. A deep discharge is considered when the bike cannot run over 24km/h (plain road). This must be done one time per month when used frequently. A shallow discharge is done when the red sign of the battery comes up. This should be done one time per week. With the new firmware you can define a delay for precharge and other new information is now displayed (like highest temperature). Most of this info can be found on old threads here.

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

My baby and I are back home :-)

I've driven 800km since 3:00 'till 15:00, I'm all sweaty, but it was worth it.

I've got a new battery and the latest software. The bike is still on the trailer in the garage, since I'm afraid to get it down by myself.

I have a question, though. I'm going for 3 weeks of holidays on Saturday. I don't know if I will be able to do a first-run procedure in the manual until Saturday. Is it ok if I let the bike sit in the garage for 3 weeks and do it then? The standing battery voltage is 136V. I'm afraid to come back home in 3 weeks having a self-depleted battery.

jmap
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Great! I hope that lasts this time...

The battery can last at least 3 months so I think that there is no problem. If it was me I would do a ride before going out, just to go in peace ;-)...

X Vectrix
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Andy1
It will be fine for 3 weeks. When you return, ride the scoot until the battery icon comes on, then do a full charge followed by a full discharge (till icon illuminates again). This will initialize the battery/charger management SW.

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

Thank you, both :-)

I will probably wait until I'm back, 'cos I'm seriously lacking available time to do the procedure correctly. I only have 2 days left and all my free time will be devoted to preparing for holidays.

It's also to hot during the day for my taste, for braking-in a new battery. When I come back at the end of August, nights will be longer and colder, mornings will be colder and a shadow from our office building will be longer, so the bike can be parked in a shade during the day.

AndY1
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Re: BATHOT during riding, but the battery fans won't start ...

I have another question, if I may.

I got the manual for the new software. It's in Italian and I don't speak Italian ;-)

The repair engineer told me, that I have to drive the first two runs to full discharge. But he didn't say to ride until the red battery lights, but until EST Range goes to 0, all bars are gone and bike moves only 24km/h.

Does the red battery light up at the above conditions? If not, which procedure is the right one? To drive until the red battery telltale or until 0 bars, 0 EST Range, 24km/h?

Thank you in advance :-)

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