Maximum kilometres or miles

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Scootervillain
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

I can't say anything works particularily well at that temperature. Even "dry" road surfaces are slick. Acceleration was normal. The battery depleted about 20% sooner.

Christ! -16 degree Fahrenheit = -26.6666667 degree Celsius
that's really cold!!!!!
Did your vectrix work well under this coldness?

Scooterville Minnesota
Vectrix, Vespa, Kymco, & Genuine Scooter Company Dealer
Minneapolis Minnesota
www.scootervillemn.com

RaDy
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Jurba, i think, when they were designing the Vectrix, Lithium wasnt tested enough in large sizes for automotive use. If you look at the electric cars of 10 years ago, everything was lead or Nimh(Toyota,Honda,GM, Ford) and Nimh was the better chemistry, and some of these cars today have 300,000 kms and still going. So the problem of the Vectrix is not only the Batttery but also the way it is "managed" , no BMS etc..
Off course Vectrix wont reach anywhere if they dont put a Lithium pack in the 2010 Vectrix. Whatever they say or do, wont convince anyone unless they forget about Nimh. Now they cant even offer it as a "cheap" option, cause now Nimh is probably more expensive than Lithium anyway.
About competition of the Vectrix, well there are many points of view, if you talk about acceleration, speed etc.. the Vectrix might be better or worse but look at it this way, you have the equivalent of a Harley or BMW (in electric), they are not faster or quicker 0-100 than their competition and they dont sell as many either, but their owners are still willing to buy them and enjoy them in a "different" way, pleasure of driving, build quality, aesthetics, owing a unique brand etc.. the only problem is that if Vectrix doesnt survive and is taken in the correct path, then all this will be nothing, or maybe it will be like owing an "INDIAN" motorcycle(that Harley type of 100 years ago) im sure its very special to own one, and they are very valuable, but the company didnt make it.
If we talk about batteries, they can only get cheaper, lighter and more powerful with time, like Pc´s ,Plasma Tv´s and so many other consumer things. There is more competence every time and more companies willing to eat of that "cake".
I understand, that anyone who bought the Vectrix as their only vehicle and spent all their money and efforts, might be very dissapointed if Vectrix fails, doesnt honour the warranty or asks them for €5.000 euros for a battery pack, but it is also true that it was always a "risk" to buy a Vectrix, as is to buy any "chinese" electric scooter and as is buying all those electric bikes that were going to come out but never did, like the Volta. CuMoCo might be a good option, but not available in Europe, so if you had the guts, the money and the passion, you bought a Vectrix.Then if all those marketing promises would have been true you would have been a very very happy man. Now it stays in very happy man. (but always for the moment.... time will tell).
RaDy

grillino75
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

30000km.JPG

HALLO!!!
30.000km... 17000 WITH LAST RECONDITIONED PACK BATTERY

AndY1
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Congratulations!

Is the battery still going strong?

R
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Ohhh yeeeeah! 30.000 KM!
Great!! That's really great!
Vectrix's battery is starting to prove its reliance trough time...How old is it/what serial does your Vx-1 have?

grillino75
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

hello everybody
my Vectrix was registered on 30/5/2007 .chassis number is .......... 000271
after 17,000 km with the battery pack reconditioned are still around 100%
30000km.JPG

at a speed of about 65-70km/h I have about 60 km of autonomy

AndY1
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

What do you mean by 'battery pack reconditioned'? Did you get a new battery?

RaDy
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Its 10 months and 6400kms, im a happy person. The battery seems to be fit and the Bike is smoother. I am less concious of my range and hardly look at the battery bars now, i simply drive my commute day after day, and im really starting to believe that this thing is reliable for everyday use.

Has anyone past 20.000kms (or equivalent in miles) with one battery pack??
What is the maximum distance clocked to this day and by who?
RaDy

R
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

grillino75 has 30.000 km on his odometer... maybe largest clocked distance...
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/6535-maximum-kilometres-or-miles#comment-44181

I'm around 20.000 km, 12.000km with last pack. My gearbox is getting noisy. Our dealer suggested me to try oil with Teflon. I'll give it a chance.

Mik
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

grillino75 has 30.000 km on his odometer... maybe largest clocked distance...
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/6535-maximum-kilometres-or-miles#comment-44181

I'm around 20.000 km, 12.000km with last pack. My gearbox is getting noisy. Our dealer suggested me to try oil with Teflon. I'll give it a chance.

The Vectux has just made it past the 12,000km mark, still on the first dodgy battery.

The gear box is also getting noisier again, maybe due to the temperatures heading towards the hot end here now. I sucked out some of the Castor oil, it looks cleaner than before, and over filled with an additional 40ml Castor oil. So that means a 50% over-filled gearbox. Nothing has come out of the air vent, yet....
Maybe it is due to the worn-down rear tire; a new one is on order, I'll try a different brand this time.

The M-BMS, hazard lights and ABCool continue to work very well.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

RaDy
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Mik, thats your Vec's first pack but its your second or third Vec? , so do you know if the pack of this last Vec of yours had done the recall before they gave it to you?

jurba
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Thanks Andy1, i forgot to say i had 2.600Km.
Does anyone have 10.000 or 15.000?

I do 15.000km

vectrixhoper

RaDy
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Thats good news Jurba, not long ago i wasnt sure if the Vectrix Batt pack could make it to 30.000km , now i feel abit more confident about it, specially with the later ones. I still hope that the Vec will last for 5 years and/or that i can get 50.000kms out of the Battery pack , it more or less will have been worth it. If it doesnt, then i wouldnt recomend it because it wouldnt make much sense to the vast majority of people.

R
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

I sucked out some of the Castor oil

mmm interesting! how do you suck out the oil?
Mik
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Mik, thats your Vec's first pack but its your second or third Vec? , so do you know if the pack of this last Vec of yours had done the recall before they gave it to you?

The "Vectux" is the replacement Vectrix. The first one had a blown fuse, so they replaced the whole bike! That says something....namely that they did not have a clue about the bikes (and probably that they got shitty support from Vectrix Corp).

Unfortunatey the replacement Vetrix was worse in every respect. No wonder, it had had an additional 6 months of standing around without being charged. And no advice was available at the time as to how to treat the "new" pack, except for the "Do 5 deep discharges" nonsense that did not incude the tiny but vital hint that you need to provoke a BALPOR in order to get the battery to get charged up. I had a range of about 9km or so, with about 12 or 13 bars still showing up as full. The comment of the Vectrix Australia man, who had driven 2000km to exchange the bike, and who was still in Brisbane and had to drive past me again to get back home, was: "It is working perfectly". He never offered to return and check it out on his way past my place again.

I was left to my own devices to try to figure out if and how this bike could be made to go furtehr than a dozen kilometers!

Because the first Vectrix had failed unexpectedly in traffic, I was of course cautious not to damage anything again and eased off the throttle whenever the battery telltale came on. That avoided the resetting of the battery charge indicator and in turn prevented the full charging and top-equalisation of the battery.

They had been selling Vectrixes for half a year at that time, and still had not figured out to tell their customers to hold the throttle open for ten seconds while the battery telltale is on to affect a BALPOR. I had to figure that out myself.

Then they damaged my motor controller by not using a torque-wrench during a fuse replacement.

Then they cancelled my warranty (because I partially fixed the gearbox and posted how to do it) at just the moment when the damaged motor controller was beginning to send smoke signals. They claimed that I caused the damage by laying the Vectrix on it's side during the gear box modification, a total nonsense explanation intended to deflect from the fact that they had not remotely followed Vectrix repair procedures themselves by omitting the use of a torque-wrench. The motor phase cables need to be tightened with no more than 3.5Nm, that is not very much, otherwise the MC board gets flattened and starts to smolder, which it did.

All this was at the same time as the battery recall, and all that Vectrix Australia was offering to do for free was the battery rework. Not a battery replacement, but a rework of the same old, damaged battery. They were assking horrendous prices for replacement parts (Motor Controller about $2200.- IIRC, the first "quote" anyone in Australia was able to get from them for parts I think).

I assessed the situation as such: They were likely to cause further damage when reworking the battery and I would be unable to afford to buy parts from them if they were not under warranty.

So I renamed the bike "Vectux" (TUX being the name of the open-source mascot penguin) and repaired the motor controller myself, for negligible cost (apart from tools I had to buy and skills I had to learn).
A few months later I did the battery rework myself, properly, including detailed testing of all cells, and design and installation of a manual BMS. That M-BMS is the only thing that has kept this battery pack going, it would have died about 7000km ago without the modifications done by myself. I would have paid Vectrix Australia another 2500.- or so for a new motor controller, they would have "reworked" the battery, and then the battery would have died. Maybe they would have been able to sell me a "new" pack then, for $6000.- or so???

You can find all the sordid details on VisforVoltage and on Endless Sphere:
https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6853&sid=ddb3b038cf6c523c75aa5114792671b8
https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6277

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

jurba
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

If I was a vectrix executive I would employ you as an expert and a future ambassador of the new corp .
regards
jean mi

vectrixhoper

jurba
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Thats good news Jurba, not long ago i wasnt sure if the Vectrix Batt pack could make it to 30.000km , now i feel abit more confident about it, specially with the later ones. I still hope that the Vec will last for 5 years and/or that i can get 50.000kms out of the Battery pack , it more or less will have been worth it. If it doesnt, then i wouldnt recomend it because it wouldnt make much sense to the vast majority of people.

it is absolutly crazy to be in the condition in which we are sure that our pack will be damaged because of imbalance or bad effect of the equalization charge ....
we pass through different moods, sometimes we are optimits sometimes depressed ..anyway

vectrixhoper

R
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

If I was a vectrix executive I would employ you as an expert and a future ambassador of the new corp .

And if I Were a vectrix executive the very fisrt thing I would do is sending to MIK a new 2010 lithium Vectrix for free, with a letter politely asking him to give feedback on any minor issue he might found in his new "Vectux" ;-)

RaDy
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Mik, youve surely done your part in helping Vectrix with sales, creating a "DIY Maintainance" possibility even before the case of Vectrix Corp disappearing. Im sure all of us in this forum would like you to get compensated for your work in some way or other.
I have thought of a possibility that, the new owner Gold Peak, could offer a totally new Vectrix March 2010 (with improvements and Lithium pack) at a 40%-50% discount to all existing Vectrix owners (the 3000+).
So this would mean that any of us who feel dissapointed and really believed in Vectrix and the Batt packs could now have the possibility of continuing to believe at a "beta tester" price with the only condition of giving them feedback of the new product(We would also be in a good postion of comparing old and new to see if they have got rid of things which were correct).

Vectrix Corp would gain:
1. Brand faithfullness from clients (competence will start now with other brands coming to market)
2. Very good mouth to mouth "ambassadors" of the Vectrix (Which already exist now)
3. Selling quite a few new Vecs from its start and being able to ask these 3000+ for free feedback
4. The 3000+ wouldnt complain for being beta testers again and could compare old and new
ETC... If anyone else thinks of other reasons, they can contribute, thanks.

Clients would gain :
1. The sense of not having been left alone therefore faith in backing from the Brand
2. All those who want lithium could access a whole new Vec at abit more than a new pack
3. supporting Vectrix Corp by making them sell a good bunch of bikes from the begining
ETC... If anyone else thinks of other reasons, they can contribute, thanks.

I know it may sound like a fairyrale but it would be win-win for both sides.

Next, lets make a Poll of how many existing owners would by an improved , lithium Vec at 40%-50% discount price.
I would. Then i would keep my Nimh VX-1 as a classic or resell it to gain some of the cost of the new Vec.
Raj

sparker
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Interesting concept that would give me a dilemma. At the moment my Vectrix is doing all that I expected of it - 5,380 miles, 40 - 45 mile range per charge and an accurate indication of SOC on the guage. Much as I like the thought of increased range and perhaps top speed, I currently have no need of either so couldn't justify another big spend at the moment. I may live to regret it, should the hypothetical offer ever be made BUT I think I'm going to have to say I'd stick with the current Vec set up as it suits me down to the ground and is running very well. There is also a part of me that wants to see how far a decent Nimh battery pack can go with the new software, even though its still not perfect.

RaDy
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

I am also very satisfied with my VX-1 , but thats why i would be intrested in being able to get more range ,handling and top speed, it would end up being a dream at a decent price.

jurba
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Hi all,
we are all more then satisfied with this awsome bike, it is unbelivable to see how well it works,
yesterday I was going uphill and saw a poor emax I braked hard to be able to stay by it side and discuss whith the rider, then I accelerated as a jet and flown away .
despite it's power, it accélération it's weigth and it's top speed (all hig for and electric vehicle) the vec manage to get 5°/80 km range in my style of driving, it is confortable, pleasant to ride etc etc ....
This is exactly the reasons why it is a shame that it's batt pack seem not to be reliable ...
how come a so nice, well design bike has a so fragile batt pack or bad batt management system ?
how come this bike has a pack costing hall of it's price ?
I have caculated yesterday that even if the pack worked for 80.000 km the cost of 100 km is 1.6 euro .... for a 5000 euro battery ....
all of this is stupid in fact .
the vec deserves a more reliable pack/bms and a cheaper batt pack .
I am ok to make a poll as you said
I am ok to try to make a list of owner's and to see if we can all write to gold peak saying that we have been their betha testers , that we want to colaborate and get them feed back .
regards
jean mi

vectrixhoper

jurba
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Interesting concept that would give me a dilemma. At the moment my Vectrix is doing all that I expected of it - 5,380 miles, 40 - 45 mile range per charge and an accurate indication of SOC on the guage. Much as I like the thought of increased range and perhaps top speed, I currently have no need of either so couldn't justify another big spend at the moment. I may live to regret it, should the hypothetical offer ever be made BUT I think I'm going to have to say I'd stick with the current Vec set up as it suits me down to the ground and is running very well. There is also a part of me that wants to see how far a decent Nimh battery pack can go with the new software, even though its still not perfect.

ok with you , I am nearly in the same condition but the main question is FOR HOW LONG ?

vectrixhoper

jurba
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Interesting concept that would give me a dilemma. At the moment my Vectrix is doing all that I expected of it - 5,380 miles, 40 - 45 mile range per charge and an accurate indication of SOC on the guage. Much as I like the thought of increased range and perhaps top speed, I currently have no need of either so couldn't justify another big spend at the moment. I may live to regret it, should the hypothetical offer ever be made BUT I think I'm going to have to say I'd stick with the current Vec set up as it suits me down to the ground and is running very well. There is also a part of me that wants to see how far a decent Nimh battery pack can go with the new software, even though its still not perfect.

Sorry an other message in reply to your's cause all of this makes me thinking .
when I say for how long ?, we have to consider the following points:
among the old vectrix there have been some that have never run the old software inculding the cooling delay, the equalazationtion process, reduction of power in the end of the batt capacity etc ...mine for example .
some of us among the most angry against vectrix old corps are saying that those software changes won't change the pack bad reliability for the equalizing process would not solve the problem of poor bms and for this equalizing process may avoid cell imballance but would damage the pack because of the over charge it causes to the cells, making impossible for the pack to reach the famous 80.000 life expectency promissed by vectrix .
All the guy's I know (very few)who have had pack problems and range reduction in beetween 0 and 15.000 km millage had the old software and had not been properly informed about the importance of paying a big attention to cooling before and during the charge process etc etc .
I bought mine 9 months ago with the new software that even the dealer did not know about, it was in the winter, reading the board between the february and summer time, I was informed on time of the necessity of cooling the bike for long before charging in summer time .
So I have never exceed 32° during charge .
I have also paid a great attention not to dump too mutch amps from the pack in the reare cases I had to run the bike with less then hall of the enregy gauge bars
I am an extensive user riding arround 1500 km a month, at the end of my first vectrix year I will have reached 20.000 km (if it survives)
next summer I will have reached 30.000 or so... if the pack survives this millage we will start to get sligth better idea of the pack/new software reliability .
all those reasons make some of us good beta testers .
we shoud be interesting people for gold peak .
Ok they don't need us to make tests, they can get a bike, real beta tester, but if they read this they may be interested .
if they read this they could drop any of us an email mine is jurba(at)club-internet.fr
I am ok to speak with them confidentially (I am lawyer so I know what does it means)
ok they will never drop me or any other an Email for numerous reasons but just in case they get a chance it would be great for them, us, the bike , the planet etc
regards
jean mi

vectrixhoper

HarryS
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

You are rasing an intersting point probably worthy of a seperate post. Could we get a report from all those Vectrix users that have always run the October 2008 software on either leftover 2007 or new 2008/2009 bikes and get a sense for how many battery and/or fuse failures we have had and at what mileges. May be we are being carried away in our discussions by problems that originated a couple of years ago that are actually already fixed. It sure would be reassuring to know that the software changes have ameiorated the challenges to the battery health.

sparker
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

Excellent point, it would be well worth compiling a list of owners detailing what software they're running, mileage so far, mileage per charge and if they have exclusively been running the Oct 08 software. As time progresses, my gut feeling is that the majority of the major problems have been resolved. I understand that there is still room for improvement on the BMS, from reading other members posts. I'm sure Gold Peak would be interested in such a list too.

kevin smith
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

hear hear. weres my lithums cells ??
lets all pull together count me in .
ps i am after a nise holl next year hows about any one coming with me to china to do some kinda deal with
new vectrix owner ??????????? kev
and state our case.

turok
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles
Mik, thats your Vec's first pack but its your second or third Vec? , so do you know if the pack of this last Vec of yours had done the recall before they gave it to you?

They had been selling Vectrixes for half a year at that time, and still had not figured out to tell their customers to hold the throttle open for ten seconds while the battery telltale is on to affect a BALPOR. I had to figure that out myself.

Hi Mik,

I read this for the first time, I didn't know that.
Could you elaborate?

turok

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

antiscab
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

for old firmware,
balpor occurs when pack voltage falls below some value for some amount of time.
thus you need to be pulling big amps long enough for the software to realise you're outta juice.

new software, balpor occurs when you can't pull a certain amount of current while holding pack voltage above some value.
this also requires holding the throttle open long enough.

balpor is required for the software to update both actual pack capacity and pack SOC.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km

turok
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Re: Maximum kilometres or miles

oh, ok!

so that's why it sometimes behaves differently after a deep discharge.

Most of the times when I do a deep discharge, the expected range is higher (+-60km) than usual (45-50km).(new software here)
The last time I did one (last saturday at work) it showed only 36km after recharge! (I heard it charge longer than usual though, about 6-7 hours I guess, but the bars were all full)
I drove 10km (calmly) since then, lost 4 bars (remaining voltage 134) (wich looks normal to me?) but the range is has still decreased to 29km and doesn't adapt to the slower driving I've been doing...??? never seen that before..

any ideas? (I hope I didn't blow a cell, but I don't think so, seen the range I got from 4 bars)

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

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