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Gee, I guess I am "NOBODY"... I may not live in Minnesota but I do live in Norther Michigan and believe that the climate is similar. Mr. Angus we do indeed have more than one nice weekend a year in which to ride.... so much so, BUD, that I actually put more miles on my Vectrix than on my Harley this summer. I am a working man and plunked down a fair amount of hard earned greenbacks in support of a product that is actually worth supporting. Customer loyalty is hard earned because the customer understands that it is ultimately the customer that makes or breaks a company.... so finger point all you want but with no customers even the best of the best managers cannot make a market. Here's alittle something that should be the cornerstone of any business hoping to stay profitable "Take care of your customers and your customers will take care of you."
When you treat ONE customer like a "NOBODY" word spreads like wildfire and you might as well not even show up for work the next day..................
Well said Galago!! Hey here's a little something, hot off the rumor mill, Vectrix USA is in discussion with Harley-Davidson, to sell the IP so that Harley can qualify for a R&D alternate energy money from Uncle Sam. The exact terms of the deal, may not really happen because the full extent of Vectrix problems may not yet be understood by Harley-Davidson's shareholders. There will be those enthusiasts who will rejoice at these talks, and believe H-D is a white Knight but although I would love to see Vectrix survive as a product of the legendary H-D, I am concerned that H-D may simply take the US Grant money and never produce another Vectrix, or worse Vectrix financial woes destroy an aleady struggling H-D. Either way we live in exciting times
marcopolo
I haven't been able to contact R regarding his generous offer of usernm & psw for the vectrix service site. Did anyone manage to contact him/download anything useful? Does anyone know what's happening now? The 10 day deadline to prove solvency or file for bankruptcy I think has passed or must be very very close.
Anne
Hi Anne,
I notice you are from NSW, Australia. Are you aware that your Vectrix Distributor, Vectrix Australia, is still in existance and attempting, with limited spareparts and support, to maintain customer vehicles? VUK is in much the same position, along with several other dealers world wide. These guy's are giving up their own time and money to keep servicing customers in the hope of a white knight, should be commended.
Before I left Australia I was in contact with the VA Office in Melbourne, (this is not much help to you in NSW) and they are still offering limited service. (I know I had 2 bikes serviced by VA.) Unfortunately, because the US rebate has ceased to exist, VA are forced to charge customers for warranty work!!
While this is not good, or satisfactory, it's better than nothing! Forcing the issue would simply cause another dealer/distributor to liquidate! Leaving no support all!
The username and psw, would be of little use since the main vectrix service site has ceased to exist. The IP and codes are assets of the creditors of Vectrix and will remain unavailable until a decision by the administrator.
Vectrix US and it susideries will file chapter 7 by the lastest next Thursday, with or without certified accounts.
Sadly, it gives me no pleasure to have been accurate in my predictions, and I feel empathy for those devoted (if a little fanatical) Vectrix fans who couldn't accept the inevitable.
marcopolo
Hi qmprius,
I completely agree with you: The Spanish dealer is offering superb service, I hope they will, go ahead by selling the ThinK electric car.
Hear, Hear, the Vectrix Dealer in Spain should be commended for the diligence and commitment shown to EV development. I hope they survive and prosper!
marcopolo
It is very interesting to revisit wild rants, such as the one above. By comparing these posts with posts in other forums, I have reason to believe that this particular rant, was posted by a rather low ranking Vectrix ex-employee, with delusions of granduer. But maybe that's unkind, as although silly and unfactual, the above post does show the passion which a product like Vectrix can arouse! It's, very, very sad that such passion should have been betrayed by such dreadfully inept management.
It is even rumoured that the Vectrix CEO,Mike Boyle, is currently behind an attempt to purchase the remaining assets of Vectrix, with E MAX as a new venture partner. But who knows? I believe it's really time for some transparency??
marcopolo
awesome,
if emax are buying a chunk of vectrix, maybe they can use better parts.
might speed up development of the 190L.
i havent heard anything from the emax end, though im just a lowly distributors technician/engineer :p
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
It might, although I would imagine it is really just and attempt to cash in the Vectrix name for a much more humble product.
Sorry about the " lowly", it was intended to describe one person. I have great respect for engineers and technicians! You're the guys who can actually make things work!
marcopolo
no offence taken.
i did get the chance to meet the Emax head technician, and see a vx2 in person.
Before then, i was talking to one of the marketting guys, who really did have no idea.
Not sure if E-max will be marketing under the Vectrix name any time soon, though i do see them taking some design ideas.
A programmable charger being one.
sine wave DSP driven controller being another.
it was interesting to see that the only people in the whole company who use EVs as their primary mode of transportation were the factory production line workers.
This means there are aspects of the design that are overlooked, such as accuracy of the "fuel guage" and keeping track of capacity degredation.
similar problems the Vectrix had come to think of it.
At least the head technician rides a motorbike as primary transport (kawasaki gpx 600).
So the build quality other than that is fairly good.
I just wish the the design team of any EV were forced to use the EV they're designing as their primary mode of transport for at least a year before bringing it to market.
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
Yeah, I met him as well at the Indy show (I think it was the same person?). He definitely seemed like he had good ideas and a good engineering approach to the issues at hand. However, I think EMax seem a little slow to adopt LiFePO4. We'll see. However, EMax would be a reasonable company to take on the Vectrix name - they'd already partnered before the crash.
How 'bout the president and the chief engineer riding the bikes for 6 months? Would that do? ;-) (I fully agree with your sentiment in this)
John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.
Absolutely, hear, hear!
marcopolo
If his name was Klaus, then yes, same guy.
really knows his stuff thanks to being a technician in the german army for 20+ years
As long as someone high up in the company has real life EV commuting experience, the product is usually rather good.
Emax is testing lithium atm.
Problem is, they are aiming rather high for reliability, because the marketing guys said it wont sell at a profitable price without a 3 year 50'000km warranty.
so theyre looking at complex BMS systems with significant charge shuttling and temperature control.
Then theres the lengthy testing of the actual cells.
Thats what's holding them up so long.
come to think of it, Lithium testing data may be another reason for E-max to buy a chunk of Vectrix.
They weren't all that interested in making a Lithium Variant with shorter warranty just for the Australian market.
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
That would fit in with the rumours concerning the Vectrix CEO is making a bid, with Chinese partners, to buy only the IP and sales network of Vectrix to sell an upgraded E-Max type vehicle.
The issue of a better battery, is at the core of EV development, and was certainly a major factor in the failure of Vectrix. The unsatisfactory performance and high price ( nickel being five times its current price, even one year ago) of the original batteries was a reputation killing defect.
Matt, I notice you are from Australia. I have just been visiting Australia, and travelled across the vastness of WA to witness the workings of a lithium mine. Very interesting!
Do you by any chance, live in WA?
marcopolo
i sure do live in WA.
Perth to be exact.
Its a pity neither of us picked up on it earlier.
I could have invited you to an Australian Electric Vehicle Association meeting, and shown you all the electric car conversions that have been completed over here.
re Vectrix, it would have done far better if it had a better BMS. Still, as soon as i find a cheap one over here, im buying and upgrading it, much the same as what i did with my emax :)
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
Damn, I would have really enjoyed attending the Australian Electric Vehicle Association, you guy's seem pretty cut out there so I guess that breeds innovation?
I would be interested to hear the results of your BMS modification. I will try to make a point of visiting Mik on my nest visit to the land Of OZ, and if business takes to the West again, I will take up your kind invitation.
marcopolo
Marcopolo, if you happen to have a Vectrix or two in Australia, which are unuseable anyways due to battery problems, then maybe donate them to Matt! (Or sell them cheaply).
I have read a lot of his posts on Endless Sphere, AEVA and here, and I can hardly wait until Matt gets his hands on a Vectrix! He knows a thousand times more about electronics than myself; when I put 30A rated cables and 20A fuses into the Vectux M-BMS, it was because guys like him might come up with an actual automated BMS that does the balancing without constant operator input!
The batteries in a typical Australian (malfunctioning) Vectrix do most likely contain more than 50% good cells, even when the battery is toast.
Matt might like to combine two damaged batteries into one good one and design a proper BMS along the way!
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
very interesting idea ! I shall certainly keep it in mind, and contact Matt on my return. I shall also follow it up with VA, as they must be glad of Matts assistance, and have countless dud batteries.
marcopolo
sorry for the slow reply, i have been away from the internet for a while
Im not actually on the Endlesshpere forum (though i do keep an eye the big hub motor project)
i had a quick look around for someone who could have been mistaken for me.
The only Matt i could find was recumpence. Im definately not him (though i am liking his work, now that i have seen it :p).
we just happen to have the same real life name.
i may have mis-typed re a vectrix BMS. I was more referring to putting lithium in one, than adding a BMS to the stock Ni-mh batteries.
If i do find one (i havent yet) i was planning to first recharge them with a few of my lab power supplies at a constant 0.5A for ~60hrs to make sure theyre balanced, then capacity test them by segmenting the pack and using the big battery tester im building.
i could develop a BMS for it, though im not sure if i could do it before someone else beats me to it (im suffering from to-many-projects syndrome :P)
I doing so, i would probably monitor at the 3-cell level, so hte BMS could be re-adapted to a lithium pack later on.
All this is of course conjecture, until i happen upon a vectrix :)
i have my bike licence now, and am back to riding on petrol. man do i hate maintaining chains
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
Ooops.....Sorry! I could have sworn....and I should have checked before posting such stuff!
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
such as life, no harm done.
i did have a bit of a think re BMS for the original Vectrix battery.
If you were to use a BMS designed for LiCo like this one:
http://www.all-battery.com/protectioncircuitmodulefor37vli-ionbatterypack-cs-127-10s15a.aspx
connect cells in groups of 3 to it.
with 102 cells, a LiCo BMS setup would need to support 34 equivalent.
balancing at around 4.2v = 1.4v cell average for the 3, so that wont cause any issues.
low voltage alert at 2.5v, worst case scenario is 2 x 1.2v + 1 x 0.1v.
It will let you know if you are about to reverse a cell, though a higher voltage alert would be preferable.
the way i would setup the low voltage alert is with a buzzer or light.
i wouldnt wire any of the heavy traction pack wiring through those BMS units, id just use them for monitoring.
I had contemplated using a LiFePO4 intended BMS, but the LVC and balancing voltages were too low for groups of 3 cells, and too high for groups of 2 cells.
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
maybe vectrix could get in on some of these loans the governments handing out?? just a thought
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1115/calif-automaker-receives-5287-million-govt-loan/
Tesla Motor Company is doing pretty good with electric vehicles. Let then take over this electric style caddy scooter.
1st Solar panels as body parts to assist in recharge the battery...(lead acid, you've got to be kidding!)
2nd Electric generators on front and rear wheels to assist in even more electric power to the battery.(Sounds like TMC to me)
3rd Match the same distant an average car gets per tank full of gas. (About 300 to 400 miles per tank full)
4th Speed must be at least 65mph to 70mph. (Average American freeway speeds)
5th Lines 3 and 4 need to be combined, IE: Scooter needs to get 300 to 400 miles per charge while maintaining a speed of 70mph
6th All this said, Vectrix should get together with Tesla Motor Company (They've already done it) "Bill Gates (Mr. Money"), "Virgin airlines CEO (Hell, he's building a space airline)", "NASA (To work out the bugs"), Also the general people of the market place they intend to sell the scooter and ask what they want in a scooter and what they want to see removed from the scooter. There's a lot people in a lot of countries that have great yet simple ideas that would work in a scooter like this. Tap them as a free resource.
Last but not least. Since the Vectrix scooter is going down fast. Where can I get this scooter dirt cheap. I'd love to tweak this scooter out with some Mods of my own. To me going out of business + left over scooters that can be serviced = CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP scooter for ME ME ME.
Thank you
qxinfinity
qxinfinity
what petrol bike gets that kinda range?
that would require like a 30L fuel tank, which on a bike is *huge*
my petrol bike used to get 120miles to a tank (usually).
anyway, in electric it'd be 42kwh.
imagine shoehorning the battery in the Tesla into a motorbike.
high energy density lithium cobalt would be ~300kg for that much capacity.
its a nice wish list, but if thats the kinda requirements you really need, give it another 2 decades.
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
The one with the generators on front and back wheel! Oh, no, sorry, that's the electric version...
It's the one with a water motor and browns gas generator powered by the generators on front and back wheel!
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
Are you kidding? Average gar gets over 600 miles per full tank. My car can travel 800 miles with one sigle tank... and carefull, efficient driving.
Really? 600? My Insight that gets 70 MPG only gets 500 per tank. And every car I have ever owned got less than 300 a tank, oh and every friends car. Are you driving one of those crazy pickups with two tanks?
Or, maybe I am out of place, as this seems to be the crazy idea thread. How about we put propellers on the bike to get more miles per gallon out of the batteries?? :')
-Randy
______________________
I also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev
Divide 500 miles by the 10 gallon tank in the Insight, that's 50mpg. A 16 gallon tank on a 38mpg car would top 600 miles, as did my old '90 Eclipse with the 1.8 liter (4G37) engine when on the freeway. (Without traffic.) Some of these goofballs with their "Hypermilling" tales believe they're adding humongous mileage to one tank, but their stories don't hold up. Not sure why that range is important in this discussion beyond additional things to argue about, but. . . .
A generator driven by the motion of the bike will shorten the range, not extend it. Energy cannot be created, it can only be converted. That conversion causes loss by heat, friction, etc., so the rolling resistance the generators on the wheels cause will use up more momentum than the small amount of electricity captured can make up for.
If you give out ONE MORE $528.7 million dollars of my tax money to another shaky company for another overhyped technological EXPERIMENT, so help me I'll. . . . (Do you really think Fisker is NEAR building a car? Especially a NON Tesla ripoff?) In 2008 they took DEPOSITS for delivering the cars in 2009, they're currently promising 2011, etc. Oh, right, next Februrary, sure. I've yet to see that they have an actual prototype, rather than a "Concept Car" shell for carshows. Oh yeah, they say they'll start building the test beds RIGHT NOW. May ends in 3 days, I'd like to see some proof the deadline was met. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64Q11G20100527
Tesla says they did shoddy work when paid to build for the S, which is basically what the Karma draws from. I think we know how much charging those little solar panels on the back will accomplish. It's all so encouraging, and that's where our tax dollars are going. Sounds like they're having fun, Enron style parties though. At least those tax dollars are being spent here. http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/event-in-west-palm-beach-showcases-fisker-karma-702042.html
I'm feeling like the 3rd base coach in 'Bull Durham' right now.
Interesting though it may be offering the reality check to the things people throw out in the height of. . . "Interacting. . ." you guys are all forgetting the most important technological advances for gaining high mileage on a two wheeler: Grabbing hold of a car at a red light and letting him pull you along. And let's not forget travelling downhill, both ways. (Wait a minute. Grabbing hold going uphill one way, then coasting downhill coming back. . . . I think there's a bestselling book in this.)
WHo dares, WINS!!!!
How Dare YOU!!! You sir, will hear from our Attorneys!
You are evidently a spy from a government/Freemason/Zionist/isalmist/oneworldgovernment/fluoride/CIA conspiracy, who stole our patented " Miracle energy land Anchor (4 Attachments)" (patent denied)
The benefit to America of this amazing device, will easily justify the vast sums of money spent by ourselves and the US military on development to date!
You will hear more of this!
Signed....B. Madoff 1V
On an undisclosed Island Resort.
marcopolo
Umh.. to tell the truth, I've never seen a pick up in Barcelona (a hummer twice, before they were banned). My previous car was a BMW 320D touring with sport pack MII. Average consumption was 6.1-6.2 liters/100 km, with a tank of 75 liters, I could get 1200 km per tank.
Now I owe a Polo V Bluemotion. When my wife drives it caressly average consuption is around 3.9-3.8l/100 km. Under efficient driving, I can easly match 3,4-3,2L/100. With a tank of only 45 liters, I can get a range of around 1300 km.
I'm astonished that you never got more than 300 miles a tank.. Let me gess... v8 american cars?
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