A call for civility and for transparency

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jdh2550_1
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A call for civility and for transparency

Things are getting "over heated" around here.

We've got folks calling other folks "dishonest". We've got posts from folks with legal sounding names claiming inside information. We've got folks claiming others are advertising inappropriately. We've got folks calling other folks names. We've got folks who take a "strongly worded" post and pour gasoline on the thread to make it a flame war. I'm guilty as well.

It happens every six months or so around here. These current situations will blow over as well. We have a great forum here - let's try and make it a positive experience.

It's fine to disagree and it's also possible to disagree without being mean-spirited. Put yourself in the other person's shoes and read before you post. Be prepared to retract and offer apologies (apologies cost nothing and can go along way to restoring civility).

Along with civility my own personal wish is that folks would be more prepared to identify themselves. Cute names are great - and are almost required because otherwise it's next to impossible to register a unique, but memorable, name. However, there's a signature line. Why not post your real name there? Even if it's just the first name? Yes, there will be those cases where folks with good intentions don't feel it wise to fully identify themselves - and I too would rather have them post than scare them away.

But take a recent example - a gentleman (or lady) joined with the name "white wig". Apparently a barrister or solicitor or even a judge? And offered what sounded like legal advice. That's a very dangerous game to play. I believe it's well intentioned - but it's not well thought through. Unless of course it's not well intentioned and the choice of name is meant to convey more status and knowledge than actually exists. I could have registered with the handle "supreme being who must be obeyed" - and hopefully you would have all laughed at me.

Same with Vectrix UK. I fully believe that this handle represents someone in the corporate structure of Vectrix UK. However, why not explain your position with more detail? If you're not supposed to be posting - then there might be a reason to be vague. On the other hand if you're not supposed to be posting there may be a good reason for that and if you still feel strongly then you could at least post in a personal capacity rather than as a company representative. I presume you have access to other computing resources than those at VUK HQ?

Same with marcopolo. Cute handle - mysterious even. Even if you don't want to share your name or your profession why not at least put something about the 17 VX-1's you've purchased in your signature? (that was public info you posted on one of the threads) That way folks might understand why you're highly interested in the current VX-1 debacle and they may respect your position more. Personally I'd hope you could share your name and your profession.

There's a place for being cute. There's also a place for being secretive. We're discussing EVs here - not state secrets. Why all this "need to know" BS from so many people?

jdh2550_1
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

I try and live by my word. My request for better signatures is obvious. However, in terms of civility I'd like to publicly apologize to Mik. Mik we simply have a difference of opinion and I will do my best to recognize your dislike of me mentioning my bikes in VX threads. I can't say I won't do it - but I'll attempt to be more careful.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

marcopolo
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

Same with marcopolo. Cute handle - mysterious even. Even if you don't want to share your name or your profession why not at least put something about the 17 VX-1's you've purchased in your signature? (that was public info you posted on one of the threads) That way folks might understand why you're highly interested in the current VX-1 debacle and they may respect your position more. Personally I'd hope you could share your name and your profession.

Your call for civility is quite timely, but I believe in live and let live! Yes, there are those serial idiots who yell abuse, like small boys who are embarrassed because they don't understand what everyone else is talking about, but it is very, very small in comparison to other forums!

You are quite right in relation to handles! But I think you may not have considered the other advantages in the anonymity of nom de plumes. While it is true that it allows cowards and fraudsters to get away with slander, it also serves to elevate the level of information assessment. If everyone is equal, only what the author has written is evaluated. The reader is not influenced by the status or renown of the author, but by the quality of the material.

The other advantage is that persons, like myself who's professions and positions may be restrictive as to what they can contribute, are able to contribute freely and equally to debates without discovering that material, lifted out of context and used in different forums.

In my own case, I only stumbled across V is for Voltage, and filled in just enough to post a small contribution which I believed would be my last! I shall try to amend my details, to include more personal information. (just as soon as I figure out how to do it!).

marcopolo

Rebel
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

I agree and also accept myself as one of the guilty parties.
I have now taken a step back and in my thread to Marcopolo yesterday offered a kind of armestice.
From now on lets all stop the guessing and quoting of corperate law and bankruptcy and leave this alone until something definate comes out of this.
I cannot see this going on much longer before we all find out whether Vectrix is a dead duck of restructured into a salvageable company with an outstanding product.
We should all also remember that the VUK technical guys arent corperate lawyers or directors but they are engineers and by the threads we have all read very good ones with only the customers interests at heart.
so to be trying to frighten them off with shouts of lost income and court writs is immorral and wrong.
These guys are probably going to loose there incomes anyway if the inevitable happens and in the currant climate that is nothing to be gloated over.

Just very well informed

jdh2550_1
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

Your call for civility is quite timely, but I believe in live and let live! Yes, there are those serial idiots who yell abuse, like small boys who are embarrassed because they don't understand what everyone else is talking about, but it is very, very small in comparison to other forums!

Yes, there are worse haunts on the internet than this one. On one level for me personally it's quite entertaining to watch and to participate (which is why I'm one of the guilty parties). However, at some point we risk turning away other, less hardy souls who would otherwise be great folks to encourage to view and participate.

You are quite right in relation to handles! But I think you may not have considered the other advantages in the anonymity of nom de plumes. While it is true that it allows cowards and fraudsters to get away with slander, it also serves to elevate the level of information assessment. If everyone is equal, only what the author has written is evaluated. The reader is not influenced by the status or renown of the author, but by the quality of the material.

That is a good point which I hadn't thought of. However, the signature is a good shorthand way of providing contextual background about the author. Without it the reader has to either have read more of the author's posts to have built up that background from the snippets provided or hope that the author remembers to provide such context in each and every post.

I don't see the signature as a substitute for the quality of the material posted but as another data point as to the author's world view and possible agenda.

You do have a good point - but I think on balance I still think a "capsule" of factual information in a signature is worthwhile.

The other advantage is that persons, like myself who's professions and positions may be restrictive as to what they can contribute, are able to contribute freely and equally to debates without discovering that material, lifted out of context and used in different forums.

Yes, there will always need to be exceptions to the rule - and those will always be the decision of the forum member. I'm certainly NOT proposing anything mandatory.

The trouble is, as soon as there's one exception (be it worthy or not) it encourages others to follow suit. That's just something we probably have to live with. I certainly want folks in your position to post (I for one consider you a positive addition to the community) - so I'll deal with the fact that you have to be a little coy.

In my own case, I only stumbled across V is for Voltage, and filled in just enough to post a small contribution which I believed would be my last! I shall try to amend my details, to include more personal information. (just as soon as I figure out how to do it!).

Yes, it's quite addictive isn't it? I spend way too much time here! ;-)

To set your signature go to the "My..." drop down at the top of every page and choose "My Account". On that page then click the "tab" labeled edit. On that page you'll see an edit box for signatures. You can put html code in that box (if you know it) - for example I created a table to display/format my info. However, reikiman appears to just uses straight text (with some hyperlinks) and it looks fine to me.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

jdh2550_1
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

I agree and also accept myself as one of the guilty parties.
I have now taken a step back and in my thread to Marcopolo yesterday offered a kind of armestice.

Thanks Rebel - and kudos to you to "stand up and be counted" - I did note your statement in the thread yesterday and was very happy to see it.

We should all also remember that the VUK technical guys arent corperate lawyers or directors but they are engineers and by the threads we have all read very good ones with only the customers interests at heart.

I absolutely agree - but why can't they simply put "Vectrix engineers" or some such in their signature? It wasn't until after the questioning began that their identity was improved.

so to be trying to frighten them off with shouts of lost income and court writs is immorral and wrong.
These guys are probably going to loose there incomes anyway if the inevitable happens and in the currant climate that is nothing to be gloated over.

This is where we begin to differ - and I don't want to turn this thread off topic. So, I'll just agree to differ (I don't think anyone's gloating nor trying to scare anyone away).

Thank you for participating! :-)

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

knabo
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

I would hope that this forum would be a bit more mature than others across the net. But people do tend to take themselves a little too seriously.

John, I apologize for labeling you as small (in stature) in a different thread, :)

Celebrate diveristy

Luther Burrell, Mesa, Arizona, USA
Rides: ZuumCraft from zuumcraft.com
Previous Rides: Blue Vectrix Maxi scooter

jdh2550_1
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

I would hope that this forum would be a bit more mature than others across the net. But people do tend to take themselves a little too seriously.

John, I apologize for labeling you as small (in stature) in a different thread, :)

Celebrate diveristy

You also called me funny - so it balanced out. ;-)

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

Mik
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

All right then, I missed out on Woodstock, so I'll make sure I'm part of this one....HAHA!

Sorry, JDH2550_1, I was beginning to hit below the belt line in our little sparring exercises. smilies
.
And even better, I've decided to move over to the dark side.....

If you can't beat them, join them!?! scuba diving

.

I did my taxes today and added up the cost for all those Vectux mods (including boxes full of stuff left over from all the prototyping and experimenting) during the 2008-2009 tax year: AU$2884.12
Of course, I broke and fried a few of the tools included in this price tag, but generally speaking I've got a very basic workshop together now.

** This is too expensive as a hobby.

** I want more toys! Now! Like a more powerful lab power supply, a Vario and a 1:1 isolating transformer, an oscilloscope, UPS, cyclotron, anti-gravity device, etc.etc.etc...

** I need to start earning money doing this stuff!

My accountant tells me that if I can sell AU$20000.- worth of stuff in a year, then the taxman will substitute these business losses of Mr. Mik, via my income tax return...hehehe....free smilies

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

We need more music here....

And I heard a very nice song on the radio today, it fits the topic like a bum on a bucket!

Couldn't find a youtube link, but a facebook page.

Click on the Song: "Who do you trust?" in the music player on the left to hear it: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ed-Patrick/59749871785

And here is a live video version of it: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=77168145099

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Steve Scott
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

Well how this for transparency.

I have been watching this forum now for a couple of weeks and having a little chuckle now an then at some of the comments and have now decided its time to join.
I dont have much to say only that i am still employed by VUK and working everyday and being paid.
I am not going to go into any details of what is happening with the company mainly because I dont know because as someone put it we are (lowley technical guys).
We get told things are going to happen and they dont ,and people are taking the company over and they dont ,and we are going to jail for helping our customers, well lock me up .
As long as I am being paid i will continue.
Well as it says you know where we are ,you have our contact details and as proven by several threads on here we will help if we can for as long as we can.
Anyway i am now going to sit back and continue watching the sit com created by Marcopolo ,Rebel,and whoever else has an opinion on the future Vectrix.

Is this transparent enough.

BR Steve Scott

P.S Dont know who you are but when are you coming to visit Marcopolo as you promised ,the kettle is always on buddy.

Steve Scott

myocardia
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

Well how this for transparency.

Hey, Steve, welcome to the forums. If you ever want to share a little bit of information, but not all you know, we'll understand. Well, most of us will, anyway.:)

Steve Scott
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

Thanks for the welcome , Yes i will give you any tech info or parts supply info, just call the office between 0900 and 1600 GMT .

Steve Scott

winged_racer
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

Hello everyone,
Like Steve I have sat, read and laughed at some of the 'inside information' which has been posted on this site and wondered just where it comes from. How fortunate for some posters to work for law firms which are diligently piecing together the saving of Vectrix, others to be lucky enough to be sat next to a solicitor who was more than willing to divulge information of a clients court proceedings to a complete stranger! It sure has made for some entertaining reading be it fact or fiction. I have seen so many theories, interpretations, conceptions and misconceptions by various people who know a lot more about the Vectrix situation than I have been privy to. In fact, I know nothing, just the rumours I read on here.

My sole purpose for joining this excellent forum is to read about problems and solutions which owners have and where possible to lend a bit of advice without breaking disclosure clauses within my contract of employment. I will not give advice for someone to complete a repair which could be hazardous or cause additional damage if not done correctly.

Anyone with a concern about their Vectrix is always welcome to call the Vectrix Technical Centre in the UK and either myself or Steve will be more than pleased to speak to you. Where possible I will place my comments on here for all to share.

Best regards,
Doug

Doug Townley
info.DTES [at] gmail.com

(Formerly Vectrix Europe Technical Supervisor)

One door closes, another door opens

jdh2550_1
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

Welcome Doug and Steve.

Let's not turn this thread into a chance to take a dig at others (two wrongs rarely make a right).

There's also no real need to introduce yourselves on this thread (but it's great if you do). The transparency and civility request expands greater than just the latest Vectrix episode. Every few months we usually get folks on here saying "this is great" and "that is crap" who then turn out to be dealers or importers for "this" or in competiotn with "that" - not owners and with no real data to back up their posts. It's tiresome after a while.

Doug you get bonus points for your straight forward signature line! (Steve, you don't want to be outdone by Doug do you? ;-) )

Anway - to both of you (and everyone else) thanks for taking the time to venture back into these forums and I hope you decide to participate for a long time to come.

From my perspective it does seem like the heated rhetoric has calmed a little over the past week or so (uh oh, did I just jinx things?)

All the best,
John H.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

Steve Scott
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

Hi John

Thanks for the comments.
you should have seen what Doug wanted to put on here, I got him to tone it down slightly and I have now put his lead and muzzle back on.
We are proffesional people and we will remain that way on this and other forums so you have no concerns on that point.
Oh and the signature has been updated.

Best Regards

Steve

Steve Scott

marcopolo
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

How fortunate for some posters to work for law firms which are diligently piecing together the saving of Vectrix, others to be lucky enough to be sat next to a solicitor who was more than willing to divulge information of a clients court proceedings to a complete stranger!

Odd as it may seem, lawyers seldom gossip about their client's private affairs! However, lawyers do discuss at length,(sometimes ad nauseum!)cases already in the public domain. This is because in the Western legal system there are few closed hearings, and very little "closed court evidence". In our system the public can attend whether it has anything to do with them or not! (imagine your are fixing a particularly difficult bike, with an audience of school children present). Barristers, well all, lawyers love to talk! Especially commercial lawyers, it's how they improve knowledge and technique! It so much more interesting hearing about a case, especially from a boasting participant, than just reading a transcript, or some deadly dull law report. Just like engineers, insights and opinions are very valuable between colleagues. Finance lawyers, and banker's are particularly acute to corporate governance issues as it may help to protect clients in the future. The only real difference is when engineers deal with problems, it's not usually reported or verbatim transcripts made! That's probably a pity, because I'm certain the conversations between engineers would far be more interesting!

It would be very improper for a law firm or an employee to divulge any clients information, if that client was brokering a bidding process or completing a due diligence study into any company,regardless of the companies financial position. (law firms don't actually save companies, they are just technicians for the clients). But once you go to court, there goes any secrets or confidences!Your affairs are certain to be quoted, misquoted, misreported and misunderstood for years to come!!

It's very good to see that you guys are still offering service advice and technical information as VUK.
But, and this isn't a criticism of you guy's, I am curious as to why Vectrix Management would have chosen to keep only VUK open, abandon the rest of the owners worldwide, even shutting down the US head office? Perhaps that not a fair question, since you are not in a position to answer, but it certainly seems to be a tactic devised to create an impression that all will be well with Vectrix. Now, I realise that you are not responsible for the more extreme posts etc.., but don't you think it might have been better and more practical, if Vectrix corporation had (as I suggested) published a realistically truthful report, simply stating that in the interim Vectrix had decided to maintain a technical advice centre with minimum staff, and chose VUK as the most efficient location??

If Vectrix Corp had done that, I for one, would never have questioned such a logical policy.

marcopolo

myocardia
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

Anyone with a concern about their Vectrix is always welcome to call the Vectrix Technical Centre in the UK and either myself or Steve will be more than pleased to speak to you. Where possible I will place my comments on here for all to share.

Excellent! Might I suggest that you send a PM to Mik, our resident Vectrix expert, giving him your e-mail address and Vectrix UK's telephone number? He could pass the number along to anyone looking for it. I just looked online for the Vectrix UK telephone number, and there doesn't seem to be one listed, only numbers for ex and current dealers, which obviously does customers from anywhere in the world except the UK no good. Thanks in advance.

winged_racer
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Re: A call for civility and for transparency

VUK telephone number is +44(0)1962 717 769. We are here from 0900 to 1600 GMT Monday to Friday.

Cheers,
Doug & Steve

Doug Townley
info.DTES [at] gmail.com

(Formerly Vectrix Europe Technical Supervisor)

One door closes, another door opens

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