Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and Australia?

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Mik
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Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and Australia?

Are there any Vectrix owners in New Zealand or Australia who are happy with their scooters range?

jmap
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

How much is their range?

michaelt
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Happy??? I can report for 2 of us in NZ, one getting 40-50K's, I have never got more than 40k in 1500k's of riding and am now getting about 30-34.

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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Happy??? I can report for 2 of us in NZ, one getting 40-50K's, I have never got more than 40k in 1500k's of riding and am now getting about 30-34.

Welcome to the forum!

I saw your posts in the other thread and it made me wonder if there is more to the problem than just the heat in Australia. If the VX-1s in Australia (including Tasmania) and New Zealand are on average -or almost all?? - performing poorly in regards to range, then there must be a different reason in addition to the Australian heat.

I recall eyeinthesky had a range of 50-70km initially for a while in Tasmania, but that did not last and dropped drastically when his battery failed. The replacement batteries never seemed to work properly.

marcopolo wrote he has 8 VX-1s in Australia, all with some battery problems.

Tasmania and New Zealand must have one of the best climates for NiMH driven EV's; they should last very well there, because the oceanic climate prevents both extreme heat and extreme cold for the vast majority of the year.

Can anyone remember reports of good range achieved down under, or has not yet told us about it?

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

dgh853
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

I'm in Sydney and not happy with my range.

The bike will do approx. 40 kilometres of urban riding with speeds up to 60kph. This is roughly half the range quoted in the manual i.e. 77km at 64kph or 87km at 56kph. The most I have ever achieved was 60km but that was by riding at 40kph in the breakdown lane for half the distance and coasting down most of the hills and riding up longer hills at 25-30kph. Constant riding between 70-100kph results in a range of only 20-30 kilometres.

The range has probably fallen 10% or so since I bought it as a demo bike with 800km already on the clock - I've now done another 2,500km on it.

Other than the less than advertised range, the bike has been very good and I'm very happy with it.

jmap
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Happy??? I can report for 2 of us in NZ, one getting 40-50K's, I have never got more than 40k in 1500k's of riding and am now getting about 30-34.

I can talk in the name of 3 riders in Lisbon. One with 14000km, me with 6000km and other with 4000km. We usually do 60-80Km per charge, depending of the style of driving. Our climate is one of the best in Europe as you can see in the graphic:

My record is 84km but I usually do about 70km.

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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

I'm in Sydney and not happy with my range.

The bike will do approx. 40 kilometres of urban riding with speeds up to 60kph. This is roughly half the range quoted in the manual i.e. 77km at 64kph or 87km at 56kph. The most I have ever achieved was 60km but that was by riding at 40kph in the breakdown lane for half the distance and coasting down most of the hills and riding up longer hills at 25-30kph. Constant riding between 70-100kph results in a range of only 20-30 kilometres.

The range has probably fallen 10% or so since I bought it as a demo bike with 800km already on the clock - I've now done another 2,500km on it.

Other than the less than advertised range, the bike has been very good and I'm very happy with it.

Would I be correct in assuming that Sydney is the most hilly, and congested of the Australian cities? Could those factors be relevant to your bikes performance?

marcopolo

myocardia
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Mik, I keep meaning to ask you about your bike's current range, in comparison to what it used to be. Note, when I say "used to be", I don't mean the day you got it, but instead from the time that your warranty was unduly voided, and you decided to see if you could extend your battery lifetime by making a few modifications.

michaelt
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Mik

Thanks for the welcome, and your pointing me in the right direction on the other thread. My apologies but I am new at this forum thing and can't even figure out how you do that quote thing in the grey box??? Probably giving away my age. So do we think Vectrix shipped all their dodgy batteries to Australia? Now there is a good conspiracy theory! Or was it a particular batch of bikes that went to Australia, I do not know the history or details of the manufacture except that my bike was made in mid 2007 according to the date on various components but was not commissioned until Jan this year (it came from the Australian stock in Melbourne I believe). I read with envy of the 60-80 k's being got in Lisbon. If i got that I would be a very happy man. But also to add that range aside the Vectrix is an absolute blast and joy to ride.

myocardia
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Mik
My apologies but I am new at this forum thing and can't even figure out how you do that quote thing in the grey box???

You just click on the 'Quote' button, pointed out in this link and then get rid of any portion of what was said that you aren't wanting to quote, since it quotes the entire post. Once you've used the forum for awhile, you'll figure out how to do it manually, which is faster.

Mik
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

...
So do we think Vectrix shipped all their dodgy batteries to Australia? Now there is a good conspiracy theory! Or was it a particular batch of bikes that went to Australia, I do not know the history or details of the manufacture except that my bike was made in mid 2007 according to the date on various components but was not commissioned until Jan this year (it came from the Australian stock in Melbourne I believe).
...

Maybe it just took longer for the scooters to arrive at the customer.

The "constant on" motor controller drains about 7mA even when the VX1 is off. Sounds like no a lot, but do the maths:
7mA = 0.007A
0.007*24hrs = 0.168Ah / day.

30Ah / 0.168Ah/day = 178.57 days.

The drainage rate probably reduces as the battery voltage falls, and the theoretical time to a zero volt battery would be much longer than these 178 days. But there is also the spontaneous self discharge rate on top of this, and the fact that the battery does not need to fall to zero charge level to get damaged.

But it is not impossible that second grade batteries were shipped to Down Under in the first place. The battery in my Vectux is made up of cells with almost random serial numbers.
Here is a link to a mindmap diagram showing the serial numbers in the battery pack of the Vectux:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=15767

The numbers work like this:

C 3008 = Cell type, Capacity 30Ah (same for all cells)
061211 = year2006 December 11th
000167 = number 167 on that day.

It looks to me like the modules could have been recombined from cells salvaged from damaged batteries, because the serial numbers are not in regular order. Although they were made within days of each other, they have dozens or hundreds of numbers missing between cells.
All cells in each module have been labeled within a few days of each other, but the modules were combined months later. (See the module series number on the first cell in each module).

There were also two physically different types of cells in there. One type has two ridges on each short side, the other has 4 ridges on each short side.

I may be misinterpreting these serial numbers, but since we have a lot of insiders posting and reading here now, I hope someone might be able to explain this...???

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Paul
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Hi All

I understand from conversations with former Vectrix Australia service guys that the treatment of bikes shipped to The Land of Oz was guarenteed to result in crook cells in the battery packs.
The story goes that the Oz bound bikes were from an early batch, sat in containers at docks in Europe and Australia for months and no effort was made in this time to look after the batteries.
As you know, large format NiMh cells have a self discharge rate which will flatten the voltage eventually. The cells need to work, that is if not cycled, they 'forget' how.
Beacuse the bikes took so long to get to the dealer, the cells were in a sad old state. On top of that, Vectrix Inc had even at that early stage (late '07) failed in their obligations to Vectrix Australia, and the necessary know-how in battery care and maintenance was not forthcoming. As a result, battery conditioning of the OZ bikes was left up to purchasers instead of under controlled conditions by the dealer.
This is not a criticism of Vectrix Australia, but yet another damming triade aimed at Vectrix Inc who failed to support a terrific product with the respect it deserved.

By the way, my bike had a consistent range of about 45km at speeds of up to 100kmH for the first 10000km.
I was a little disapointed with the range. But my daily ride of 44km round trip with a charge at either end was easily achievable with a charge at work and home.......Sweet!
Hardly ever ran the bike down to last few bars as charging mostly occured twice a day.
Temperatures in my part of Tassie never get below 3C and never over 30C. Perfect!

Then.......popped cells. Range dropped to about 10km and top speed about 60kmH.

Vectrix Australia sent over some spares (thanks) and I replaced two swollen cells myself.

The bike is almost back to where it was; range is now about 40km, and I don't go over 90kmH. 11400km on the clock now and I will continue to ride the bike to work every day and totally enjoy every minute of every ride!

All in all, I'm still very happy with the little red Vectrix.

Paul

Mik
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Mik, I keep meaning to ask you about your bike's current range, in comparison to what it used to be. Note, when I say "used to be", I don't mean the day you got it, but instead from the time that your warranty was unduly voided, and you decided to see if you could extend your battery lifetime by making a few modifications.

On day one I had about 9km...

On a regular basis I got about 42km of hilly, fast driving. But that was, as I know now, doing damage each time.

The absolute maximum was 83km or some thing like that, driving at 40km/h until only crawling. That would also have done some damage.

Here is a picture of some of the "few modifications": //i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Inrush%20Current%20Limiter/th_DSC07343.jpg) (Click to enlarge.)

The result:

Because I have this Manual-BMS I can limit the range and speed to the requirement of the weakest cell in the battery.

I always still have full power available at the very end of my range, even if I am voluntarily traveling at crawling speed to protect the weakest cell.

Normal driving (that means fast!) on hilly country roads and city mix: 30km

Babying it but flowing with traffic: 40km.

These ranges have not noticeably changed over the past 5000km or so.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

RaDy
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

All in all, I'm still very happy with the little red Vectrix.

Its good to hear that after all you have gone through in the end all negatives seem to be overtaken by all positives, if just Vectrix CEO M.Boyle or whoever around him, would have cared or believed abit more in this product.Imagine how many less negatives could have been. Also, normally, the people who first embrace a new tech are more understanding and prepared for problems and will get over or accept them more easily, so if they cant satisfy these first batch of clients, its very difficult to aspire for the rest.

myocardia
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Normal driving (that means fast!) on hilly country roads and city mix: 30km

Babying it but flowing with traffic: 40km.

These ranges have not noticeably changed over the past 5000km or so.

That's sad. Not the range, but that over the past ~5,000km, your range hasn't been declining. This leads me to believe that Vectrix disavowing themselves of the warranty on your scooter is the only reason that you are still have the range that you have, since you most likely wouldn't have attempted the BMS installation if you were risking your warranty. I assume this was yet another travesty of logic, where management tells the engineers to shut up, since they (management) were completely capable of destroying the company without any help from people who used their frontal lobes for something other than backstops for their foreheads.

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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...
All in all, I'm still very happy with the little red Vectrix.

Its good to hear that after all you have gone through in the end all negatives seem to be overtaken by all positives, if just Vectrix CEO M.Boyle or whoever around him, would have cared or believed abit more in this product.Imagine how many less negatives could have been. Also, normally, the people who first embrace a new tech are more understanding and prepared for problems and will get over or accept them more easily, so if they cant satisfy these first batch of clients, its very difficult to aspire for the rest.

Absolutely!this was exactly the problem! Well said!

Marcealt and Paul, this is exactly what happened, at least according to the Court documents lodged, in the action VUS-v-VA. It is evident that Mike Boyle attempted to silence complaints, ( Mr Mik) by litigation rather than just service the bikes. The problem would have proved overwhelming for a relatively new and inexperienced VA. It is rather disturbing that VUK keeps operating,while VA and other dealers must fend for themselves. The conspiracy theory is that this is part of MIke Boyles sell off plan. If true this would be fairly disgraceful that the directors of Vcorp would seek to benefit from disposing of so many inconvenient clients.

marcopolo

Mik
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Marcealt and Paul, this is exactly what happened, at least according to the Court documents lodged, in the action VUS-v-VA.

Are these accessible to mere mortals? How can I get to read them?

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

...This leads me to believe that Vectrix disavowing themselves of the warranty on your scooter is the only reason that you are still have the range that you have, since you most likely wouldn't have attempted the BMS installation if you were risking your warranty.
...

The M-BMS makes it very obvious that at the time when the first cells start to reverse charge, the stock BMS is utterly clueless that something is going wrong.
That might or might not have changed with the Oct 2008 firmware update, but it would definitively have been too late for my battery. The weakest cell is down to 16Ah capacity, the good ones have around 27Ah, some more (at 20A to 1.1V cutoff)!

If I had continued to do deep discharges (causing BALPORS etc) then the battery would have deteriorated rapidly towards complete failure, like so many others.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

marcopolo
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...
Marcealt and Paul, this is exactly what happened, at least according to the Court documents lodged, in the action VUS-v-VA.

Are these accessible to mere mortals? How can I get to read them?

Available to lawywers on line, although if a case is settled, all documents except the actual judgement are no longer accessable in some jurisdictions. Judgements are a matter of public record and any state library of the jurisdiction will eventually be included in the Law Reports.

marcopolo

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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Just to get back to the topic of range.
I have not been able to get over the 50 km mark. My riding is typical Brisbane (very hilly) city traffic. No matter if I do a deep long charge over night or a top up over, say 6hours, I don't seem to be able to get anywhere near the promised range. And apparently my bike has some very good batteries (VA).

Other wise I am very happy with it, ah but there is one other thing, when I push the bike around in the garage the rear wheel or motor or gearbox makes a clunking sound as if engaging cocks are worn or out of alignment. Is this normal? Does your bike makes the same noise? I can't tell what it should sound like a I have not seen any other Vectras (?!?) here.

Mik
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Hi All

I understand from conversations with former Vectrix Australia service guys that the treatment of bikes shipped to The Land of Oz was guarenteed to result in crook cells in the battery packs.

I think that is indeed the most likely explanation!

If only I had put in a few hours to read up on NiMH battery care before I got the second Vectrix, I might have been able to resurrect the battery. But that is by no means certain.

Under these circumstances very gentle, shallow cycling of the batteries would be the right thing to do, avoiding deep discharges like the plague for several weeks or so.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

Looks like someone is starting to sell "new" VX-1's in Australia:

http://shop.ebay.com.au/vectrix2008/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25


2008 Vectrix VX-1 for Sale from the Dealer!!!

High Performance

· 100kph Maximum Speed

· Superior Handling

· 70-90 km on a single charge

· Unique Regenerative Braking Technology

· 0-80 in 6.5 Seconds

· Quality Components including Brembo Brakes and Marzocchi Forks

Battery

· Nickel Metal Hydride Battery with approx. 10 years life

· 2 Hours to Fully Charge from any standard power point

· Recyclable

Cost- Efficient

· $45 per year to run

· Very Low Maintenance with only 9 moving parts

Environmentally Friendly

· Zero Emissions

· 14 grams of Carbon Dioxide per km driven

· No Petrol

RRP Price $13,950 (plus on road cost)

*** We will Ship at full cost to buyer.***

Still the same old stuff!

The time to fully recharge is even shorter than the 2.5hrs which were originally advertised.

But at least this seller does not claim to offer a warranty!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

eyeinthesky
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

That blatant lying gets up my goat, I achieved 70klm once at the beginning travelling 40-50kph
but never again even after three pack changes,due to range deminished, best I have gotten since is 50klms if I go 50kph on level ground
currently its 30klms at normal riding 60-80kph
I like my ride. as short as it is, but feel I got screwed with the sale pitch, (imagine asking to test ride one for 70klms.
dealer would have to follow you with a trailer.)
I have 21000ks on the clock in 2 yrs but replacements of
3 chargers,2 fuses,3 battery packs,thanks to V Aust. and upgrades that limit distance to improve bat life.
So my 0-100kph in 10 sec 110klm range for 2 1/2 charge is in reality a 0-100kph 20klm range 6 hr charge only if I want to fully discharge and charge, which will kill the batteries in a very short time,

I dont think My Batts will last another two years.

Mik
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

That blatant lying gets up my goat, I achieved 70klm once at the beginning travelling 40-50kph...

Oh no, don't be so negative, these bikes have been maturing in their barrels for at least 36 months, they must have improved, surely!

It must be almost like reconditioning to let them stand unattended for a few years....

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

eyeinthesky
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Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...
  • It must be almost like reconditioning to let them stand unattended for a few years....
  • HEY!..... wine can spoil over time! ;-)

    Mik
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    Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...
  • It must be almost like reconditioning to let them stand unattended for a few years....
  • HEY!..... wine can spoil over time! ;-)

    Mine has been "wineing" from day one!
    Nothing ear plugs can't fix; as it says in the ads: "Silent"!

    This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

    There is always a way if there is no other way!

    eyeinthesky
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    Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

    he who whines the loudest.....get heard !

    antiscab
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    Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

    interesting to see one of them has gone over the reserve price
    not sure what the reserve price was, but the bidding is at 5000.

    ive got bids on the others at ~1500, but im not likely to get it :(

    still dont like the false advertising. at least i know more about the bikes than the dealers do :p

    Matt

    Daily Ride:
    2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km

    Mik
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    Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

    Here is another one, by a private seller.

    The reserve was lowered but has not been met at AU$2751.-

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230376263899&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

    There is always a way if there is no other way!

    Mik
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    Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

    interesting to see one of them has gone over the reserve price
    not sure what the reserve price was, but the bidding is at 5000.

    ive got bids on the others at ~1500, but im not likely to get it :(

    still dont like the false advertising. at least i know more about the bikes than the dealers do :p

    Matt

    They claim they are 2008 bikes.

    But they mention no VIN number!

    I cannot be certain, but would be surprised if they bought more bikes in 2008 when they could not sell their 2007 stock!

    They do not offer PayPal.

    This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

    There is always a way if there is no other way!

    antiscab
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    Re: Vectrix Down Under - whats happening in New Zealand and ...

    i hadn't noticed they weren't offering paypal.
    interesting, because i thought ebay forces you to offer it.

    for me, im not so bothered if its a 2007 or 2008. as long as it powers up, and the dealer doesn't charge it (cause the cells will be out of balance).

    im not likely to "win" it anyway.

    Matt

    Daily Ride:
    2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km

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