Is Brammo going to become the next Vectrix?

This seems like a fair enough assessment of Brammo's situation. It might bear mentioning that Brammo is claiming that when they move into full production mode, they will be selling their bikes for a dropped price of around $6,500 (after various EV credits are counted in). If this is true, then maybe they are implementing a viable business plan. If it isn't true, then maybe it is an appropriate segue into a discussion of the wonders of vaporware, which many of these companies seem to excel at selling. I didn't buy a Vectrix because I saw it as too big and unwieldy and the batteries as not being state of the art. But at least they made the damned things and actually sold a bunch of them. All I ever see from Brammo and Zero are press releases about their fantastic new motorcycles that, apparently, only Jay Leno and various newspaper reporters ever seem to actually drive...

I bought a GPR-S with Thundersky batteries, and though there was about a 6-week waiting period where it was also pretty much vaporware, it now really exists, I drive it every day, and I really enjoy it. I don't want to be too much of a pimp here, but they deserve a toot of the horn in their favor -- for $14,000 you can buy a machine that goes up to 90 mph and could likely go 60 mph for 60 miles on a freeway.

PS here is a link to a post, including pictures, of an actually delivered (I believe it was the first) Brammo: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=574.msg1886#new

Actually, now that you mention it, I remember some talk about leasing batteries as well, but I'm not really sure how exactly it was supposed to tie in with the final cost. I really doubt that Brammo itself knows for sure.

It's not really my bike that has that 60/60 capability. It is a bike I saw in Oakland when I was at Electric Motorsport shopping for a bike. People have been calling it the "TTXGP" because it was built as a version of the bike that was used to win the Open category at the Isle of Man race. I was not allowed to test ride the bike when I was in Oakland, because it was already spoken for, by a guy who posts in Elmoto as "djam101": http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=930 . Djam should be receiving the bike shortly and we will all need to get our numbers from him. I have already heard, however, indirectly through djam and also through a couple of people at EM, that the bike is that fast. Also, when I test rode EM bikes, Todd A of EM rode next to me on that bike. He couldn't resist the urge to leave me way behind in a cloud of dust after I topped out my bike at 55 or 60 mph.

Where I am really making a leap of faith is in the 60/60 calculation. My reasoning is that my bike runs on 23 TS batteries and an Etek RT motor. When I "putter" on the bike at about 40 mph without a lot of stops, I can get nearly a mile per amp-hour, and I can actually get more out of these batteries over a distributed time than their 60-amp hour classification would suggest. In fact, I am pretty sure I could go 60 miles at 40 mph on a road that didn't have very many stops on it without particularly stressing the batteries (unfortunately freeways aren't always crowded enough to allow a rider to go 40 mph on a consistent basis). So my leap of faith is that for this TTXGP bike, "puttering" is more around the 60 mph speed, because it has more TS batteries than mine and a stronger AC induction motor (it also recovers some re-gen energy that mine doesn't). So on a freeway where there aren't a lot of stops happening, I am placing my head on the chopping block and predicting the TTXGP bike can get 60 miles at 60 mph. If I am wrong I will be glad to apologize for being a shameless pimp.

My bike cost around $9,200 pre tax/license, and was stock ($8,500) except another $700 was tagged on to get the 60 ah TS batteries. I was told that EM would build another TTXGP for me for $13,000. But just today I was reading on El Moto that EM has made some refinements to the TTXGP machine and is now charging $14,000 for it.

PS here is a link to a post, including pictures, of an actually delivered (I believe it was the first) Brammo: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=574.msg1886#new

Cool - I didn't actually know they were delivering them "already". It'll be interesting to hear the reported real world ranges and speeds.

jdh2550 - you didn't know that Brammo was delivering them and yet you went ahead and made claims that they were vaporware? Did you know that they've been selling them at two Portland, Oregon Best Buy stores since the last week of August and that they plan to start selling in California as soon as next month? Did you know that the CEO is in Europe looking for the first country to begin selling them?

Your lack of effort to do the most basic of research on your subject causes me to doubt the reasonableness of the bases of your criticism of Brammo's business model.

Many people on this and similar forums are fans of one particular bike or another. I certainly make no secret about my bias toward Brammo. Additionally, I have done some consulting with them, and make note of this on my blog. I do endeavor, however, not to attack or criticize the other brands of electrics or to attempt to spread rumors that a company might be headed toward bankruptcy UNLESS I've done my homework. It's not just gear-heads (or volt-heads or whatever) that read these forums. Industry people do, too. Although most of them would have done the research that contradicted your claims, it's still something that all participants in a forum on the "bleeding edge" of a technology should be aware of. John, as a co-owner of Current Motor Company, you should know all this. I'm a little surprised that you'd come out of the box with a post title like that without doing your homework.

If you're interested in doing some research on Brammo, their website is filled with information and links to outside sources. On my blog, I try to chronicle the newsworthy (and not-so-newsworthy) items about Brammo and some of the extraneous issues such as whether EVs need sound-producing capacity at low speeds in order to address the needs of blind pedestrians. Motorcyclist Magazine's issue this month is focused on electrics. My point is, there are many sources out there with information.

Brammo is bringing out the Enertia for around $11,495. It's already late but I do notice that its specs have been creeping upwards over the last couple of months (used to be 50+mph now 60+mph) - I hope this is due to great engineering changes not worried marketeers wanting to eek out more attractive specs. Also, Best Buy is a minority share holder with a reported $10M investment and a deal to distribute the bikes (not sure if that's an exclusive deal or not?). So, at a minimum the company can be said to be worth $20.1M. What are these guys smoking !? (and can I have some?)...

1) How many bikes do they need to sell to be profitable?
2) When might they become profitable?
3) When might their investors wake up and start getting nervous and putting pressure on management for better results?
4) How many folks will buy a $11,495 motorcycle that does around 55mph and has around a 30 mile real world range?
5) How many folks will feel comfortable purchasing their transportation from a big-box consumer electronics store - that hasn't always had the best reputation in advice and pricing it gives to customers (anyone remember the fake website that you accessed when in store vs. the website you accessed from the internet?)

My guess is that either (a) Brammo will become the next Vectrix - maybe filing for bankruptcy in 18 months to three years or (b) they really do have the "killer-app" product and are using the Enertia as an entry into the marketplace with some "too good to miss" follow on product. I give odds at 10:1 of (a) over (b).

What are your thoughts? What am I missing? Why might Brammo succeed where Vectrix failed?

Yes, this is somewhat harsh commentary - but I hope Brammo fans can appreciate the fact that this is genuine curiosity. The folks that run Best Buy aren't dumb - they see something here. Surely they've done their due diligence. So, what am I missing?

Hi John, I'm afraid I have little knowledge of Brammo except what I have read or seen on TV. I have not actually ridden one, or done any testing of the product....But what the hell, when's that ever stopped anyone adding 2 cents worth of comment!!

To contrast Vectrix with Brammo is not really fair as the two products seem to be aiming at different markets.

Vectrix aimed at becoming an alternate form of transport for urban/suburban commuters, located principally in crowded cities. It's main competition was the more upmarket scooter and small car ICE. Vectrix is designed to be freeway legal, easy to ride with office type clothing, and carries two people with considerable safety and comfort. It's a very euro-centric design.

Brammo, seems to be aiming at a different market. It's design and specifications are very USA. The styling appears to be designed to capture the light motorbike rider, say 175 cc to 350 cc. The aspirations of such riders are very different from Vectrix buyer. Brammo's styling is very radical, 'very love it , or leave it' styling, but so did the original Prius, and in view of the eventual success of Prius that maybe no bad thing.

Your question as to whether Brammo can succeed, when the much better funded Vectrix failed, is very difficult to assess. Vectrix failed largely due to absolutely appalling bad management, poor product quality, and some unbelievably bad business decisions, that overwhelmed an excellent concept and early great engineering.

Let us assume that the management of Brammo is shrewd, competent and fiscally responsible. The real question is, Who will buy a Brammo, and how many? In my opinion, Brammo will struggle to find a mass market for such an oddball product. The appeal of light motor cycles is they are cheap ' freedom machines'! Brammo's high price low speed, short range, and complex operation, does not really appeal to the teen age, 'freedom machine', type of purchaser. One thing Vectrix did prove was how difficult and expensive gaining acceptance to the mainstream market is, even with a far more appealing product to the general public than Brammo.

So in summary, I can't see any easily discernible customers for Brammo, outside of a very small enthusiast market. As for the price, it would be very difficult to reduce the cost of manufacture without generating a mass market, which is far beyond Brammo's capacity.

This is no reflection on the product itself, it may be very well engineered and appreciated by a small number of die hard fans, who are rightly proud of owning a Brammo. But, can Brammo sell the necessary tens of thousands of bikes, to justify a price reduction? That , in my opinion, is not really feasible.

As to Best Buys' $ 10 million investment? Well now, call me an old cynic, but I would really like to see the actual cheque and deposit appear on the balance sheet. The terms of the $10 million 'investment may not be quite as they appear. But the concept of selling EV's from computer store, and mobile phone outlets, is not as crazy as it seems. Firstly, such organisations haven't the prejudice against EV's that traditional bike dealers have, also they employ exactly the sort of sales staff who can not only appreciate technical EV features, but have a customer base far more receptive to electronic innovation.

For Brammo, Best Buy's is a very smart move. With over 1200 hundred stores, and each displaying say, two bikes each, Brammo, is of to a flying start!! This is the sort of connection, Vectrix should have pursued! I wish I had a product with such a fantastic sales connection!

I wish Brammo good luck, and I sincerely hope Brammo proves my assessment wrong! I look forward to seeing Brammo gain wide spread acceptance in the market place.

Sorry, Brammofan, it was actually me who introduced the word "vaporware" into a discussion about Brammo, though I didn't directly label Brammo motorcycles as vaporware. Actually, the most unfair words I used were "All I ever see from Brammo and Zero are press releases about their fantastic new motorcycles that, apparently, only Jay Leno and various newspaper reporters ever seem to actually drive..." I let myself fall too far into the negative there, mostly because I still probably have some psychological scars from spending the last couple of years waiting for these kinds of bikes to get out onto the market, and enduring long periods in which the various manufacturers seemed to drop off the face of the earth as far as any kind of progress reports were concerned.

And I know that Brammos have been sold, but I continue to be lightly frustrated because I can't find any feedback on the internet from the users who have bought them. There is also an element of impatience here on my part because the first Brammo user referenced above only received his bike about a week and a half ago.

To tell the truth, without your efforts, I would probably be completely in the dark as far as any recent developments with Brammo are concerned. This fact reflects well on your efforts but the otherwise dearth of information generates the kind of frustration that evokes the word "vaporware" from an old computer-oriented guy such as myself. The Zero bikes are not really vaporware either -- except that you can't actually take them home with you until 2010.

What the heck happened to RADAMS, anyway? Hopefully he is having so much total fun on that Brammo that he can't spare 5 minutes to share some of his experiences with it!

My bike cost around $9,200 pre tax/license, and was stock ($8,500) except another $700 was tagged on to get the 60 ah TS batteries. I was told that EM would build another TTXGP for me for $13,000. But just today I was reading on El Moto that EM has made some refinements to the TTXGP machine and is now charging $14,000 for it.

Thanks for the clarifications. So your bike has 23 x 60Ah cells. That's 23 * 3.2 * 60 = 4416 Wh = 4.4kWh. Your range on your bike is consistent with what I'd expect for that size of pack.

Actually, since you brought these figures up, perhaps I can turn this discussion into a learning experience. I'm not sure where you got the number 3.2? The TS batteries charge safely up to 4.2 volts per cell (and are not supposed to be discharged lower than 2.5 volts per cell). At the present time, after re-charging, my bike's voltage shows up initially on cycle analyst at 90 volts (The charger has been set up to charge to 3.8 or 3.9 volts per cell). Almost as soon as I start driving the bike, the voltage drops to around 77. (Thursday I "puttered" 42 miles along a hilly but fairly stop-free route, and the voltage level dropped to 76. I actually think I could ride a route like that for more than 70 miles on one charge if push came to shove. )

What I am really unclear about is how many of those "extra" volts, that the TS batteries can hold, are useful to me? Theoretically I can charge my batteries to a voltage level of around 23 * 4.2 = 96.6 volts, but what advantage (if any) is obtained from the extra 6 or 7 volts?

Guity, if you go to one of the vendors that sell TS batteries, (evcomponents for example), you'll be able to download a spec sheet for those batteries. It will confirm the maximum charge of 4.2V, but you'll also see a graph that shows 3.2V under load. That's where the 3.2V nominal rating comes from, and what you'll get from the battery as you use the bike. Also worth noting is that during this operating period the curve is pretty flat at 3.2V, this isn't the case with lead acid, and that's part of the beauty of lithium. (Somebody can, and most likely will, correct me if I'm wrong!)

This is where we differ the most. I admit to having a bias against Best Buy. I've received incredibly poor service from them on a couple of occasions. On technology matters (for example the purchase of PCs) I find that they are either poorly trained or deliberately favoring certain inferior products because of other agendas. They're like any other sales organization in that regard. I continue to shop at Best Buy because they're convenient and they're cheap.

Best Buy is trying to invent a high end feel to their stores. They have a home-theater section and a musical instrument section - cordoned off within the store. A store-within-a-store concept. Anecdotal evidence shows me far more folks in the main store and very few in these higher-end sub-stores.

Also, I highly doubt each of the 1200 Best Buys will stock Brammo. I think I heard the order of a half-dozen stores initially? You do make a good point about the possibility of the sales reps being better attuned to EV sales than traditional scooter/motorcycle dealers. I still have my doubts though.

Sorry John, I should have stated that I am not a customer of Best Buys, nor am I all that familiar with these large US style Mega-Marts. But from what I do know, they seem to operate like the ever eager mobile phone salespeople, with young and therefore computer savvy sales staff. If I were Marketing Director for Best Buys I would be selling them to my staff at a discount, and attaching serious commissions to promote sales to there computer, environmentally customers. This would if nothing else, help to promote Best Buys green image with lots of free publicity and PR! Very useful in store development zoning disputes etc..

As to Vectrix, well they could never have raised the capital to develop the VX1 if it was only a low volume, top end product.
On performance, I recently attended a conference where I met a South Korean engineer, very au fait with battery developments in EV's, his opinion was that with the right battery, vectrix could have doubled it's range to at least 220 klm, while maintaining a speed of 110 kph! It is sad that newer (and cheaper) battery technology was rejected by Vectrix in favour of the relationship with Gold Peak and Nickel Hydride. This decision, very much sealed Vectrix fate by contributing to the sudden and dramatic price rise in the VX1.

The Brammo looks lighter, but more difficult to ride.

Guity, if you go to one of the vendors that sell TS batteries, (evcomponents for example), you'll be able to download a spec sheet for those batteries. It will confirm the maximum charge of 4.2V, but you'll also see a graph that shows 3.2V under load. That's where the 3.2V nominal rating comes from, and what you'll get from the battery as you use the bike. Also worth noting is that during this operating period the curve is pretty flat at 3.2V, this isn't the case with lead acid, and that's part of the beauty of lithium. (Somebody can, and most likely will, correct me if I'm wrong!)

DaveAK, thanks for your answer. (You are bailing me out on 2 different forums now!) What you are saying agrees with my understanding of what I have been reading. Where it gets cloudy for me is that I am spending most of my riding time at the 74 to 77 volt level, which is more than the total nominal charge of 72 volts. So, are those extra 2 to 5 volts of no extra value to me? (ie, I might just as well be riding around with a voltage level of 72?) Intuitively it seems like the extra volts would have value, because they would provide that much more of a buffer protection from dropping to some dangerous voltage level such as 58 or 68, or whatever might be harmful to the batteries. If the extra volts are useful in some way, then charging up to 96.4 volts would intuitively seem more useful yet. But if not then maybe I could save some energy and simply charge my 23 cells up to 3.2 volts apiece, and no more...

...
So, are those extra 2 to 5 volts of no extra value to me? (ie, I might just as well be riding around with a voltage level of 72?) Intuitively it seems like the extra volts would have value, because they would provide that much more of a buffer protection from dropping to some dangerous voltage level such as 58 or 68, or whatever might be harmful to the batteries. If the extra volts are useful in some way, then charging up to 96.4 volts would intuitively seem more useful yet. But if not then maybe I could save some energy and simply charge my 23 cells up to 3.2 volts apiece, and no more...

This graph, although showing NiMH cell performance, contains ths answer to your questions:

It's the flatness of the curve that makes it appear as if the battery remains full for a long time, then, BANG, suddenly empty.

Thanks jdh and Mik. So when I look for a charger I don't need to worry about getting the charge any higher than what I am already getting from my current charger. All I need is something that works with my configuration and is small enough to be mounted on the bike and (hopefully) charges as fast as possible.

Back to the primary thread topic, I have a couple points to make. MarcoPolo made a pretty convincing argument that the high-end scooter business of Vectrix is quite distinct from the flashy electric motorcycle business of Brammo. Yet there seems to be an automatically competitive relationship going on here between Brammofan and jdh. Perhaps they don't see their businesses as being quite so distinct. Is this because jdh's business is not as high-end as Vectrix or because there is more marketing overlap here than MarcoPolo believes?

Also, I have an actual suggestion for Brammo to help itself survive. This might sound a bit humorous but I am not actually joking. Brammo should offer Mik that they will give him a free Enertia in exchange for his promise that he will rigorously pursue the same agenda of ride/study/test/post that he has pursued with his Vectux. I don't know much about electric vehicles, but I learned a big chunk of what I do know from reading the Vectrix forum. Probably the most important knowledge I picked up from the forum was fairly realistic expectations of what it would be like to own an electric two-wheeler. Feeling confident that I had realistic expectations made it easier for me to commit to making a purchase. Brammo could probably enhance their sales by getting Mik (or a Mik clone, if one exists) to build the foundations of a Vectrix-like forum that centers instead around the Enertia...

Yes in terms of voltage, but when replacing the charger you will need to make sure you know if it interacts with the BMS or if it needs to be an intelligent charger in it's own right. (i.e. how does it know when to throttle back the charge? - does it rely on the BMS or does it rely on its own algorithms?)

They shipped me the Zivan charger separately, and it must be used externally because it is too big to mount inside the bike. The connection between the bike and the Zivan seems purely electrical, so I am guessing the Zivan has no access to the bike's BMS.

With so few quality electric two wheeled vehicles in the market place I contend that the average consumer will compare them (if they know about them). Look at the specs of VX-1 vs. Enertia:
similarities:
1) both require a motorcycle license to ride
2) both cost more than $10,000
3) they have similar top speeds (I'm not sure of Enertia top speed - but VX-1 is a rock solid 62mph)
4) they have similar real world range (thanks to their similar battery pack capacity - both are in the 3.5ish kWh range)

differences: style.

So, I guess a way of considering the importance of the difference is to decide how style relates to the purchase decision. For sure folks considering say a 250cc Ninja (a sporty small motorcycle) are unlikely to consider a Burgman (a gas maxi-scooter). However, folks considering a two wheel EV are more likely considering the EV attributes first and foremost. Or do you disagree?

Well I tend to agree, but I get the feeling some people around here (perhaps you and/or MarcoPolo) are operating with more information due to having done some studying and market research...

Are they that brave? ;-)

But I agree it's a good idea - one problem is that although I personally doubt Mik would be biased most observers would question the objectiveness of the recipient of a free bike. (No, you can't have a free C130! ;-) )

Actually the first question is the toughest hurdle. Even if you give a guy like Mik a free bike, I seriously doubt he's going cut you any slack in his posts, and that will shine through pretty clearly in the posts themselves...

Well I tend to agree, but I get the feeling some people around here (perhaps you and/or MarcoPolo) are operating with more information due to having done some studying and market research...

Certainly some market research but also gut feel. I just like discussing this stuff. The price/performance of the Brammo seems poor when compared to others - comparing it to a GPRS I think is a very valid comparison (for style, performance and price range). Also, if you compare the business model of Electric Motor Sport to Brammo and I think EMS is the more sustainable one. I think you picked a winner with your GPRS.

Market research ??? Hell no... that interferes with the rolling of ... Oh, I see, sorry Guity, yes I agree with John, The true comparison with Brammo is EMS GPRS. When I say this, I must state that I have not had the opportunity to test Brammo and GPRS side by side.

However, on styling, I believe the conventionally styled GPRS, is far more attractive than the oddball Brammo.I know which I would rather try to sell to Joe Average! The GPRS is also 30% cheaper. Although, this is hard to assess as pricing varies widely from time to time with very low volume manufacturers. EMS does seem to have a far more sustainable business model as a small specialist maker.

Perhaps Brammofan can enlighten us on why he found Brammo superior to the GPRS? (apart from the satisfaction of owning such a distinctive machine??)An owners perspective is always good to hear.

The real point is that, apart from enthusiasts, who will buy either of these bikes? And in what numbers? I see John's reasoning that EMS GPRS are not attempting large scale production, where Brammo's supporters are claiming that Brammo will gain mass market acceptance.

Vectrix was a very different product, it was always designed to be a high volume, mass selling, consumer product. The Vectrix organisational business model could never have survived as a low volume production product.That Vectrix sold less than 2500 unit in its lifetime, should be a cautionary warning to Brammo.

Brammofan -

Any further comment? Care to try addressing the questions as asked? Or are you still smarting because someone had the audacity to point out the elephant in the room? That elephant being that the Enertia is simply too expensive. As a fan surely you have some reasoning to think that the price is actually reasonable?

Er,... Steady on John, in fairness to Brammo, the Morgan sportscar is also very expensive, odd and certainly not to everyones taste! Yet, while Toyota declares losses, Morgan has a three year waiting list!

The main problem is Brammo wants to be a mass seller. It is only when Brammo wants to expand beyond the enthusiast that price becomes a problem. But is $11+k really expensive for an enthusiast to own a really unique EV that will turn heads every-were? I own a 1966 "Coomes special' Jaguar, hardly practical and has had more than 10x the amount of money it cost to own a Brammo, lavished on what is really just an extravagant work of art. A Brammo may one day be considered in the same category, where the conventionally designed and priced EMS GPRS, will be commonplace.

Beauty, is after all in the eye of the beholder, and I can see where Brammo's oddness may become quite chic.

But, I digress, and I look forward to Brammofan's appraisal!

...

Beauty, is after all in the eye of the beholder, and I can see where Brammo's oddness may become quite chic.

But, I digress, and I look forward to Brammofan's appraisal!

I'd really like a test report from an experienced motorbike rider / tester.

Looking at the pictures, my guess is that the COG is too high and that it might be a miserable piece of bike to ride.

It might also ride perfectly, I don't know.

Questions for the owners: Can you ride it free-handed without the front wheel wobbling?

Are the brakes able to almost block the front wheel during full deceleration?

Can you pick it up again when it is lying on it's side?

Mik,

I don't know if I qualify as an experienced motorcycle rider/tester... (I've never raced or taken a bike on a multi-state road trip) but the Brammo Enertia I bought is the fourth motorcycle I've owned. I've had the Brammo for three weeks now and have a pretty good impression of how the bike rides/handles. So I'll try to answer your questions:

* The COG (center-of-gravity) is very low... The heavy electric motor is at the lowest point and the batteries are lower down on the frame. The result is the bike handles great! You can easily flick it back and forth for sharp turns. I handles great at very low speeds, it's easy to come up to a stop sign, stop (for a split-second) and take off again without putting your foot down. My wife has never ridden a motorcycle before, and I have no doubt that within five minutes she would feel right at home riding this bike. Every other bike I've ridden usually takes a little bit to 'get use to', this bike felt comfortable from the first time I rode out of my driveway.

* Yes you can ride it freehand (no wobble at all).

* I haven't done a "stoppie" with the bike (nor will I be attempting to), but the brakes are very effective. Hard stops are no problem.

* The bike is very light (~320 lbs). Picking it up would not be a problem.

And as for the looks of the bike, no one has ever said it looks odd or weird, they say "that's cool!". If you get one of these be prepared to answer a lot of questions (and have other bikers follow you around town trying to figure out what you're riding).

Mik,

I don't know if I qualify as an experienced motorcycle rider/tester... (I've never raced or taken a bike on a multi-state road trip) but the Brammo Enertia I bought is the fourth motorcycle I've owned. I've had the Brammo for three weeks now and have a pretty good impression of how the bike rides/handles. So I'll try to answer your questions:

...

Good enough for me! Thanks for that report, feel free to add in more, sounds great so far!

Mik,

I don't know if I qualify as an experienced motorcycle rider/tester... (I've never raced or taken a bike on a multi-state road trip) but the Brammo Enertia I bought is the fourth motorcycle I've owned. I've had the Brammo for three weeks now and have a pretty good impression of how the bike rides/handles. So I'll try to answer your questions:

...

Good enough for me! Thanks for that report, feel free to add in more, sounds great so far!

I agree it would be very interesting to read an owners evaluation. But I do have one concern, Where is Brammofan?

jdh, I think one of your worst nightmares just became true.... Cheap Brammo