Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

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Mik
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Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

I found this blob of green material inside the motor of the Vectux:

Photobucket

My best guess at this stage is that it is a piece of epoxy resin that came off from somewhere in the motor.

Could it be that it was added to balance the motor?

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

Here is the sordid tale in pictures:

//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00526.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00547.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00537.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00540.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00546.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00554.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00564.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00566.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00569.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00572.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00576.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00580.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00582.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00587.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00592.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00595.jpg)
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00599.jpg)

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

Now to my questions:

1) What is that green blob?

2) Where was it before it started to roll around?

3) Do I need to replace it?

4) How do I assess if the damage to the red liner in the motor needs any repair before closing up?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

I have given the inside of the motor a clean; it is now apparent that the motor shaft is warped!

That is probably the cause of the "Gearbox" wining problem!

What a piece of crap!

The sun gear might have been fine until it was exposed to the abuse by the crooked Vectrix motor!

The resin is probably from the inner side of the rotor. It appears that the magnets get glued in with some green resin and at the end of the thicker one of the 4 "spokes" is a broader area of resin. Part of that probably fell out due to the constant vibration from the warped shaft.
You can see it in this photo:Photobucket

"R" had the same problem, I believe: several gearbox replacements until they figured out that the motor itself was damaged!

So not only did this scooter have a faulty battery from the start, it also had an irreparably damaged motor!

But in the words of Vectrix Australia: "It's working perfectly!!!"

.

F@#%!!!

I am really pissed off with this!

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eyeinthesky
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

It is now clear to me why the scooter are speed limited, It was once explained to me
that if the speed get to around 150kph the motor flys apart. if you can believe Vectrix it is governed from 150kph

Wildfire
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

I'm not sure what the green glob is, but it's certainly got me a bit curious to crack open my motor at some point & time just to familiarize myself with it.. Of course, knowing me as I do, I'll probably wait until something breaks on mine before I start tearing it apart in order to save myself some money vs. taking it to the shop. Only one month and 350 miles down so hopefully many more before that event comes around.

My condolences on one truly royally-screwed scoot..

marylandbob
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

I think it is time to remove the rotor from inside the coils, and look at the outside of the magnets(polepiece area) and the inside of the coil housing. Separate the rotor from the wheel side drive, and pull it out. Send us photos of what that area looks like!--If anything came loose, and got into a high-speed collision between the rotor and coils, it might have caused the shaft to bend.--Bob

Robert M. Curry

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

I think it is time to remove the rotor from inside the coils, and look at the outside of the magnets(polepiece area) and the inside of the coil housing. Separate the rotor from the wheel side drive, and pull it out. Send us photos of what that area looks like!--If anything came loose, and got into a high-speed collision between the rotor and coils, it might have caused the shaft to bend.--Bob

Anyone know how to do this?

The magnetic forces appeared rather weak inside the motor, but that could be because they are effectively concentrated between magnets and coils. Pulling that rotor out might not be possible without heavy gear!

For now, I have closed it all up and the Vectux is running again, with fresh Castor oil in the gearbox and nothing rattling in the motor. The uneven whining noise is still the same that it has been since the "Eagle treatment" - i.e. it;s still there, but much better than it was for the first few thousand kilometers!

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X Vectrix
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

The green blob is what they use to balance the rotor. If you look closely you might be able to see where it was on the inside of the rotor...the spot might be slightly discolored. As for the red resin wound, it should be fine unless its deep enough to have cut a phase wire.

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

The green blob is what they use to balance the rotor. If you look closely you might be able to see where it was on the inside of the rotor...the spot might be slightly discolored. As for the red resin wound, it should be fine unless its deep enough to have cut a phase wire.

That means the rotor might be fine (apart from the shaft)!
But I had a good look and could not see where the blob would have been. Maybe a different light source could reveal it, but by now the motor is closed up again. When I have another look to see if the dust problem is fixed, then I might also open the motor again and check it out. I might be able to use the same Blu-Tack trick that worked for the rear wheel balancing.
The 3.4mm shim for the encoder disk worked fine, thanks!

Is 10Nm an appropriate torque-setting for the bolts holding the motor cover plate on? I did it by feel, then checked with the torque wrench how tight it was. I thought I was aiming at 7Nm....

.
Another fragment hiding there:
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00604.jpg)

The lot of shrapnel after the completed cleanout:
//i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/Mr_Mik/Vectux/Motor/th_DSC00624.jpg)

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

R
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

Hi mik, very interesting pictures.
It took me 2 years and 3 gearbox replacements to notice the shaft's deviation. Despite your vast experience on your VECTUX, you took some years to discover this same problem... I'm sure there are plenty 2007 vectrix with Gearbox wining caused by warped shafts, and their owners still don't know why all this wining noise... The only way I got this issue solved was with an entire swing arm replacement. Now my 2009 swing arm has a well calibrated engine-gearbox, with no wining problem (thanks VES/VUK!).

I'll post someday a Vectrix Christmas wishing list (dreaming is free of charge hehehe), and one of the very first desires will be a huge empty-tubular BMW shaft across all the wideness of the swing arm, strong enough to avoid getting warped. Of course, with a fantastic gearless engine in the middle, you know, no gear, no noise... Another entry in this list will be related to lithium and BMS...

bmw swing arm1.jpg

The wining of your gearbox was an "incresendo" noise as months went by, or at the beggining the wining was at full intensity?

SVX
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

Green blob is balance weight that must've become disbonded. It isn't part of the magnet bonding.
What exactly leads you to conclude that the shaft is bent/warped?
The aluminum motor cover houses one of the two bearings that support the rotor. With that bearing removed, the shaft is going to move around. I couldn't see the video (private), but it might not be the best idea to free-spin the motor without the cover installed!

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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

Green blob is balance weight that must've become disbonded. It isn't part of the magnet bonding.
What exactly leads you to conclude that the shaft is bent/warped?
The aluminum motor cover houses one of the two bearings that support the rotor. With that bearing removed, the shaft is going to move around. I couldn't see the video (private), but it might not be the best idea to free-spin the motor without the cover installed!

The shaft visibly wobbles. I can also feel it.
The shafts center rotates around a center point instead of staying at that center point.

Also, the motor cover plate bangs loudly when it is placed with only loosely fitted screws against the motor, and then the wheel spun by hand.

The embedded video above should be visible on V, but it will not show these details. It is just intended to give people an impression of how the motor works - which part actually moves, and how.

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SVX
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

So the gearbox end of the shaft is moving, with the motor cover firmly bolted in place?
If so, yeah, that would seem to be a bent/warped shaft. How far out is it?

When I click on the vid, it still says "private". Maybe it's me!

SVX
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

The magnetic forces appeared rather weak inside the motor, but that could be because they are effectively concentrated between magnets and coils. Pulling that rotor out might not be possible without heavy gear!

Exactly right. Trying to remove/replace the rotor is dangerous, as the axial forces are pretty big. You wouldn't want a finger caught between the rotor and stator!

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

So the gearbox end of the shaft is moving, with the motor cover firmly bolted in place?
If so, yeah, that would seem to be a bent/warped shaft. How far out is it?

When I click on the vid, it still says "private". Maybe it's me!

I have not checked if the gearbox end of the shaft is wobbling, but I believe it would.

The wobble I can see and feel is at the motor side. I'm trying to upload a few videos which I made during the motor opening. The setting bolt for the encoder disk wobbles the most, initially I thought that was just a matter of the bolt being off center in the shaft, but I do not believe that any more.

Aahh - upload finished:

This video shows the motor cover plate moving (due to the wobble) when the wheel is spun slowly by hand. Excuse the poor quality, please! The plate was fastened with about 2mm "play" all around to show the effect.

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

Accidental double post- deleted!

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

Here is another video. It was taken before the motor cover plate was removed. Note the wobble of the encoder setting bolt.

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There is always a way if there is no other way!

SVX
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

It looks to me like the shaft itself is OK, but that the machining of the internal threads for the encoder bolt was made quite a bit off-axis. Or is it possible that if that bolt could have been overtightened bending the end of the shaft (which is slotted)?

Anyway, the encoder itself seems to be spinning concentrically. I bet the gearbox end of the shaft is also spinning concentrically.

SVX
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

This video shows the motor cover plate moving (due to the wobble) when the wheel is spun slowly by hand. Excuse the poor quality, please! The plate was fastened with about 2mm "play" all around to show the effect.

Without the motor cover tightened, radially locating the outboard bearing, the rotor will "walk" around due to uneven magnetic forces around it. I don't think you have a bent shaft, judging from the videos.

Mik
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Re: Foreign Body in Vectrix Motor

This thread keeps crashing my computer.

I have started a continuation here: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7582-foreign-body-vectrix-motor-part-2

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

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