After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

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AndY1
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After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Since I got my Vectrix back, with the new battery and new software, I've driven 800+km. My usual daily commute takes me to work and back, 23km in aprox. 30 minutes (both ways). That makes it an average speed of 50km/h. At 800km done, I should have passed the 12 hours mark (for the EQ to kick in) at 600km and I should have gone through additional EQ part of charging and equalizing.
That still hasn't happened yet, my CP charge ends at 145V and CC ends at 145V, so I never get to charge the battery fully and balance my cells.

4 days ago, I ended my ride with 37km done, battery voltage at 126V (I hope that wasn't to low with cells not being balanced) and 9 battery bars left (I'm sure that's at least 3 bars to much). I'm not considering going to the red battery telltale with my cells unbalanced as they are, after 800+km done.

Is there any special condition, that has to be met, for the EQ part of charging/balancing, to occur?

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

AndY1
What makes you think it is not getting to the EQ stage? Have you monitored every charge cycle? If you plug it in and leave it unattended it could have done an EQ under cover of the night. You would not notice anything different in the morn. If you havnt gone down to the red battery icon in a while I suggest you do it to keep your gauge accurate.

AndY1
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Hi!
I've let my bike start charging at 10PM only twice so far(for unattended full charge). I had my alarm set to 3AM to check the charging process, but at that time it was already shut down, both times; LCD displays shut down and all fans turned off.
I usually time my precharge cooling in such a way, that when I get to the bike in the morning, it just finishes 1h of CC or it's at CC's end.
Yesterday night I timed my precharge cooling so, that charging started at 3AM. At 6:30 it was all shut down.
I would also notice, that the EQ charge took place if the next CP charge would finish near 149V. It always ends and 145V, minutes after the 17th bar appears.

Thank you for your reply and help! I appreciate it.

jmap
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

The charging process that you are using (as some others do) have some big risks. It may be good for battery life but doing a deep discharge after all the unbalanced charges may cause a huge unbalance between the cells. Unfortunately I've experienced this problem. I was doing almost the same process when I thought that the battery could do the return home. The traces started to disappear fast and I arrived home almost pushing her on my feet. Result, I usually had 145V after charge, now I have 140V. I think that some cell entered in the danger zone and become affected.

I've changed my charging process again.

If you could check the diagnostics software, I think that they have a filed regarding the driving hours for deep discharge control.

AndY1
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

I intended to do a 'to the red battery' discharge after a full EQ charge, so the cells would be as balanced as possible.
I've never driven my bike until limited power. Only when I received the new battery, I've driven it to the red battery. I've gotten only to 126V so far.
I'd like to try not to do a deep discharge with unbalanced cells.

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Hi!
I've let my bike start charging at 10PM only twice so far(for unattended full charge). I had my alarm set to 3AM to check the charging process, but at that time it was already shut down, both times; LCD displays shut down and all fans turned off.
I usually time my precharge cooling in such a way, that when I get to the bike in the morning, it just finishes 1h of CC or it's at CC's end.
Yesterday night I timed my precharge cooling so, that charging started at 3AM. At 6:30 it was all shut down.
I would also notice, that the EQ charge took place if the next CP charge would finish near 149V. It always ends and 145V, minutes after the 17th bar appears.

Thank you for your reply and help! I appreciate it.

The charging process does rest between the end of charging and start of equalization. If the batteries are cool enough after charging it may appear that all cycles have ended, when in fact it still has the EQ cycle to execute. Its very possible that you just didnt witness the EQ cycle.
BTW, the voltage doesnt indicate squat, so dont rely on it for anything.

AndY1
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Thank you!

RaDy
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Xvectrix, please can you explain "doesnt indicate squat"?

X Vectrix
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

lol...that means the actual voltage is not a reliable, reproduceable indicator of charge. You would have to throw in charge history and temperature before it could indicate anything accurately.

AndY1
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

It finally happened after 1000km done :-)

I set up the start of charging at such time, that when I got to the bike in the morning, it was 1 hour into the EQ. Tonight, I'm going to let it finish the EQ and then do a 'to the red battery' discharge.

By the way, it's pretty cold here right now, so the battery temperature, when I got to the bike, this morning, was 11'C. Is it safe to do a full discharge and a full charge (the one after the red battery telltale, which goes to the 153V cut-off) at such low battery temperature?
If not, I can park & charge the bike on the 2nd floor of the underground garage, where it's still 17'C.

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

AndY1
Its safe to do it but when the batteries are that cold you wont get the full output. The SW routine will probably notice the decrease and only do a small unnoticeable adjustment in the capacity and the fuel gauge if you run it to the icon. The SW only allows very small decreases in capacity to account for aging. Its unlikely that the capacity will suddenly drop by alot. However, the SW does allow the capacity measurement to increase quickly.

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Understood, thank you :-)

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

FFS, what an inconsistent piece of software is this?

I interrupted, yesterday morning, the EQ part of charging, at 2:50 on LCD display (that means 1 hour and 10 minutes into the EQ charging) because I had to go to work and I thought, that if the EQ part of charging is interrupted, that it would try to do it next time, if time permits. Manual says so and other users said so.

I had, when I got home yesterday, 12 battery bars left.

Today, I started charging at 1:00AM (I used the timer) and checked every now and then (yes, I woke up and went, like a fool, down to garage to take a look). To my surprise, the charging ended after 2:21 hours (45 minutes of CP (yes, I was there when CP ended), 15 minutes of cooling, 1:02 hours of CC and another cooling) and that's it. No repeated attempt of EQ.

And this is the end result:
//www.shrani.si/t/3f/Jv/225MKwx/15102009171.jpg)

Another night ruined with no goal achieved. I still have a pack with no complete balancing done. And yes, it's 5:40AM as I'm writing this :-(

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

AndY1
There is a completion threshold for the EQ cycle which can be reached even if interrupted. If it EQ'ed for over and hour the first time then it probably reached that threshold and it will not attempt another. You should be all set.

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Thank you for this information. I wasn't aware of that and my guess is, no one else was either.

RaDy
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Yes, thanks XVectrix, i wansnt aware of the "hour" threshold.
RaDy

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Well, its not a "hour" threshold it's an amp hour threshold. So depending on the temperature it could take an hour or it could take 3 hours. Th EQ cycle will continue until there is a 3 degree rise in temp. Then it will cool until it drops 3 degrees. So if the temp never rises 3 degree it will complete the EQ pretty quickly. If it cant get the Ahrs in within a certain time limit it will give up.

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Well, its not a "hour" threshold it's an amp hour threshold. So depending on the temperature it could take an hour or it could take 3 hours. Th EQ cycle will continue until there is a 3 degree rise in temp. Then it will cool until it drops 3 degrees. So if the temp never rises 3 degree it will complete the EQ pretty quickly. If it cant get the Ahrs in within a certain time limit it will give up.

How many Ah is it aiming at?

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Off the top of my head, it shoots for 4Ahrs but will accept 3.1 Ahrs or something like that.

RuFuS
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Off the top of my head, it shoots for 4Ahrs but will accept 3.1 Ahrs or something like that.

Wow...how do you know that?

rewski
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging
Off the top of my head, it shoots for 4Ahrs but will accept 3.1 Ahrs or something like that.

Wow...how do you know that?

Take a look at his name..."X Vectrix", as in "ex-employee/engineer who knows more than anyone on this forum" about this bike :)

Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint

AndY1
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

That's strange. It attempted to finish another EQ this morning. I had to interrupt it at 2:21 until the end, at 14'C and 150V, because I had to go to work.

Now, I'm wondering, why it skipped the whole EQ, I gave it time to do it, the night after the first partial EQ and it reattempted it this morning, only 200km after the first, partial one.

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

AndY1
What makes you think it was doing an EQ? Did it say "EO" on the center dash odo field? Or did it say "EC" for end of charge?

AndY1
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

I'm sorry I didn't take a picture. I was in a hurry to go to job, my cell phone was in my backpack and I was already fully geared up.

It was:
EO, 2:21, 150V, 14'C, 3A.

I waited until the clock went to 2:20,then I unplugged the bike and drove off to work.

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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

At that temp and current level it looks like the charger may be shutting down because it reaches the cutoff voltage. If its at 150V at 3 amps it means the battery is very full. Just let it do its thing, maybe start the charge earlier in the evening so it has alot of time to finish. It could be that your gauge is slightly low compared to actual battery level, so the charge cycle is filling it up pretty good and there is no capacity for the EQ. One thing you could do is go out for a good long ride until the icon comes on.

AndY1
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Re: After 800km done, I still don't get the EQ part of charging

Cutoff voltage was set at 155V: EQ 155. I think it reached 150V because the temperatures here are so low. Battery starts charging at 11'C and as far as I know (from the GP NiMH document), for the battery to be full, it requires higher voltage.
//www.shrani.si/t/37/6/1KW1vuHO/nimh.jpg)

Before the first partial EQ, CP ended at 145V and CC at 145V.
Cycles after the first partial (1h 10 minutes long) EQ, CP ended at 148V and CC at 148V.

This morning, before I drove off to work, I ended the charging at 14 battery bars full (it just filled the 14th bar) and voltage at 144V. I think that's ok, isn't it?

I will do a long ride, but I'm waiting for a slightly warmer days (which should come this weekend). For now, I'm just driving my usual 15 minutes drive to work and 15 minutes drive back home :-)

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