Electric Bikes, Go Green, Not Mean - Drawing The Line

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reikiman
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Electric Bikes, Go Green, Not Mean - Drawing The Line

An interesting view on torque on high end motorcycles by someone who knows far more about this than I do:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/newsandupdates/122_0910_electric_bikes_go_green/index.html

The bikes that left the starting line at the TTXGP, the zero-emissions race held this past June at the Isle of Man, were not spinning their rear tires. Their front wheels were not pawing the sky as they headed for the first turn. Their power was limited by the use of relatively small motors and high gearing, by undeveloped electronics and by all of the small problems that can bedevil new racing projects....

.... Solution? Install a multi-speed gearbox. The motor's great bottom-end torque might mean that you would only need two or three gear ratios to keep your good initial acceleration and also have a high top speed. Tesla engineers planned for a two-speed but had problems in its development, opting instead for the simple one-speed and thus asking their buyers to accept compromised high-speed performance. Will future buyers of high-performance electric motorcycles accept that kind of compromise? ....

jdh2550_1
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Re: Electric Bikes, Go Green, Not Mean - Drawing The Line

.... Solution? Install a multi-speed gearbox.

Yup, I couldn't agree more. However, Erik (the Chief Engineer here at CuMoCo) has some other ideas. We'll see whose idea pans out best ;-)

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

Mik
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Re: Electric Bikes, Go Green, Not Mean - Drawing The Line

I believe there is a strong need for transmissions in EV's, and an obvious advantage to continuously variable transmission.

The clear winner in this respect (in my opinion so far) is the Toyota "Power split device" residing in the Prius hybrids.

It is an absolutely ingenious design - and I firmly believe that it does not need an ICE attached to it to function!

Toyota has more than 10 years of real world experience with the power split device. They have also built the probably most sophisticated, mass produced BMSystems for over 10 years. And it is not limited to hybrids: Reportedly some of the Toyota RAV4 EV's still run with their first battery!

AFAIK, Toyota have never subscribed to the "announce and delay" approach to marketing that is unfortunately so common in todays EV market. I imagine (without having researched this any further than relying on my terribly prejudiced and generally vague memory !) that they will announce when it is tested, refined, working and ready for sale!

Maybe I'm all wrong about this, this is just a wild guess, but I for one am convinced that Toyota will fairly soon produce EV's with a CVT right in the center of an electrical motor. It will blend 2 or 3 motors into a fairly seamless design around a planetary gearbox in which sun gear, ringgear and planet carrier are variably controlled by the motors, allowing continuously variable transmission (including reverse).

This will allow optimized use of torque, power, regenerative breaking, space. I would not be surprised if the several motors are blended so much that the boundaries between them blur - sharing some coils or permanent magnets between them.

Eventually one of these advanced motor/transmissions devices will end up in each wheel of the vehicles.

Maybe Audi or Subaru will beat Toyota to it?

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

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Re: Electric Bikes, Go Green, Not Mean - Drawing The Line

It will blend 2 or 3 motors into a fairly seamless design around a planetary gearbox in which sun gear, ringgear and planet carrier are variably controlled by the motors, allowing continuously variable transmission (including reverse).

This will allow optimized use of torque, power, regenerative breaking, space. I would not be surprised if the several motors are blended so much that the boundaries between them blur - sharing some coils or permanent magnets between them.

Eventually one of these advanced motor/transmissions devices will end up in each wheel of the vehicles.

Maybe Audi or Subaru will beat Toyota to it?

Fascinating idea - maybe you should develop it? (That's a sincere suggestion - and not as outlandish as it might first appear)

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

Mik
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Re: Electric Bikes, Go Green, Not Mean - Drawing The Line

No, really, I think Toyota will "just" drop this onto the market one day. It's an unrealistic aim for me to achieve; and an opportunity not to be missed by them (if it is actually feasible).

I cannot even fix a single warped ringgear in the Vectux! I cannot even determine with any certainty if the motor shaft is warped or not!

But I know this: In those few moments when I understand how the 'Power Split Device' works, I am kind of awestruck.

But it really stretches my imagination, I cannot hold that moving picture of how it works for long, or even evoke it at will any time I like.

But when I can see it (inside) for a moment, I know it's brilliant! And this time, the market supports my impression...it is after all the heart of the best selling hybrid on Earth we are talking about!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

reikiman
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Re: Electric Bikes, Go Green, Not Mean - Drawing The Line

No, really, I think Toyota will "just" drop this onto the market one day. It's an unrealistic aim for me to achieve; and an opportunity not to be missed by them (if it is actually feasible).

I cannot even fix a single warped ringgear in the Vectux! I cannot even determine with any certainty if the motor shaft is warped or not!

But I know this: In those few moments when I understand how the 'Power Split Device' works, I am kind of awestruck.

But it really stretches my imagination, I cannot hold that moving picture of how it works for long, or even evoke it at will any time I like.

But when I can see it (inside) for a moment, I know it's brilliant! And this time, the market supports my impression...it is after all the heart of the best selling hybrid on Earth we are talking about!

Mik, Technology history is full of people who had visions like this and pursued turning them into reality. In other cases it did not matter whether the person having the visions had actual training in the area.

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

Mik
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Re: Electric Bikes, Go Green, Not Mean - Drawing The Line

Mik, Technology history is full of people who had visions like this and pursued turning them into reality. In other cases it did not matter whether the person having the visions had actual training in the area.

I think this might very well be true, but our history, including it's trajectory, is not good!

We need to get rid of patent laws! If there is a good idea (that might help us to kill off less species whilst we learn how to dominate a planet sustainably), then great, lets use it! Publish it! The more, the better.

I do NOT claim that I invented that idea - all I claim is that I'd be surprised if Toyota did not draw that conclusion themselves and expand the concept to an ICE-less drive system. Don't worry, they have thought of it, I bet, either it is not easily workable for some reason, or they are ironing out the bugs as we speak (type)...

If 'they' have really not had that idea all by themselves, yet, which I very much doubt, then it will reach them in time if it has any merit.

So, please tell them, (even if it might be a loony idea), ye' never know!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

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