With all the hubub about the plug-in Prius, I thought it would be fun to look at how many more people you could move if you took the same lithium cells used in one of those vehicles and used 'em on ebikes instead. (I'm trying to make the case for ebikes as a legitimately green way of getting folks out of their cars.)
Feel free to have a look at http://electriccyclist.com/greening-the-planet-why-the-plug-in-bicycle-beats-the-plug-in-prius-and-all-electric-cars.
Charlie
http://ElectricCyclist.com
Your story has a few good points, but is NOT a good comparison! Where would I put my 100 pounds of merchandise from a shopping trip, on a rainy, windy day? The car has secure cargo transporting capacity, and greater safety and comfort in snow, rain, extreme temperatures and other adverse conditions, wheras such feature is lacking on the bicycle, as is the ability to reach and maintain speeds of at least 60 miles per hour, as required to safely/legally travel most federal highways. A bicycle can be great as transportation for short trips on routes that have slow traffic and low speed limits, in good weather, provided that you are traveling alone and do not have the need to also transport tools or goods of significant size or weight. For the record, I travel by multiple means, including VECTRIX ELECTRIC SCOOTER, 100% MUSCLE-POWERED BICYCLE, 1,520 cc HONDA GOLDWING motorcycle, and FORD minivan. These vehicles each have situations where one is significantly better suited for the task at hand than the other. No one vehicle is equally efficient at all tasks! It costs me significantly MORE to fuel my human-powered bicycle for 40 miles than it costs to fuel either the HONDA or the VECTRIX, if you consider the average restaurant prices for the food and drink needed to replenish that which I would burn.(Running is even worse!)Sometimes, it is more efficient to burn the gasoline!-My motorcycle can go 40 miles on $2.59 worth of fuel, it would cost more than that for food and drink to fuel the same 40 mile trip by human power.-Bob
Robert M. Curry
So if you didn't replace the "fuel" you used on your bike trip the result would be... weight loss. Yeah. Most people hate that.
"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"
Robert, leaving aside the food argument, of course you're right. I'm not suggesting we all ditch our cars, but I am trying to encourage folks to take ebikes seriously as an environmentally responsible commuting option. Too many folks dismiss ebike riders as less green than regular cyclists, while readily accepting Prius drivers as virtuous. I'm trying to do what I can to promote the lower-footprint ebike as an alternative to a car for situations where that makes sense.
As to food, my observation is that most north american drivers and cyclists at least could benefit from losing a few pounds. Like a lot of folks I'm more in the ride-to-eat camp than the eat-to-ride camp. Rather than worrying about the cost of the calories I burn, I'm delighted to be rid of them (and if I can eat more chocolate without guilt, so much the better!) Congressman Blumenauer's question is a good one: How many folks spend time stuck in traffic on their way to the health club so they can ride stationary bikes?
Charlie
http://ElectricCyclist.com
Charlie
Don't be so quick to dismiss the idea of ditching a car. For people who focus on the economic argument this is where it really starts to make sense. I suspect most people are not ready to go car-free, but going from three cars to two or from two to one is eminently doable. When I was deciding whether to sell my car or just use it less I did a quick calculation and figured out just sitting in the garage my car cost me over $1000 a year. That's just the price of the car, insurance, taxes, and routine maintenance. (For estimation purposes I figured the car would be sold after 10 years for 20% of its original value.) That estimate is low because it assumes that nothing will break, but it was enough to convince me to get rid of the thing.
The lifestyle is curiously addictive. I never would have thought it, but my wife is now selling her car as well which will leave lots of room in the garage for ebikes!
"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"
Come on "marylandbob," we don't need a flame war here, of all places! Your comparison to restaurant food prices was especially specious. "Good weather" may be one of YOUR criteria for choosing to ride a bike, but in my experience, with the addition of a poncho over the handlebars (and good fenders!), only an ice-storm will stop me. As to other extreme temperatures, I'd rather get on a bike in the summer than slide into the cab of that minivan! Of COURSE an e-bike won't go 60MPH, but in a city there are dozens of routes between two points. Exploring those routes is a rewarding part of the e-bike (or regular bike) experience.
You say, "Sometimes, it is more efficient to burn the gasoline!" You are absolutely right. A gallon of gasoline has the energy equivalent to 500 hours of human labor, and if I'm looking at a downed oak tree, I'd rather chop wood with a chainsaw than an axe. If I just need to get to work though, I'll choose the zero carbon alternative.
CJR, I enjoyed reading your web page. You might consider emphasizing how useful an e-bike can be as a part of a "hybrid" transportation mix, allowing zero-carbon mobility for the 80% of all trips where it is the logical choice. Personally, I am happy with my '94 Camry wagon as the low cost "heavy lifter" in the mix, but it sits in the driveway until one of those heavy lift days comes by. It's fun to watch the leaves accumulate around the wheels.
Your basic point that dollar/trip cost is an important part of the green equation is well taken.
cjr - nice article and you're right about the disconnect folks seem to have when someone does something environmentally positive and then others who are doing nothing or less or something different complain that you're not doing the right thing with your electric bike or your hybrid or your all-electric.
However, I think you do yourself a bit of a disservice by trying to say "I'm greener than thou". Perhaps the thrust of an article that compares the choices and rates the greenness and economics along with the other pros and cons and has an emphasis on having folks do something to improve their own personal situation? (e.g. from car to hybrid or from hybrid to ebike or whatever as long as it's something).
marylandbob's comparison to food as a fuel is unique - and it's probably valid from an energy budgeting standpoint although not really a deciding point (personally I choose to eat AND put gas in the car - it's not an either or proposition). However, I do think he makes a very good point when he lists all his vehicles. One has to choose the right tool for the job. For too long the only tool in the toolbox has been a hammer and so everyone see's everything as a nail. Personally I hope to be able to persuade folks to buy our scooters as a replacement for second vehicles - or, for those who only have one vehicle, as a specialized tool fit for a particular type of use. I actually look forward to selling scooters to those who have pickup trucks and want to keep them for weekend hauling and use a scooter for commuting.
An ebike is also a great commuter - and it's cheaper than a scooter too. So, good luck with persuading some folks to make the switch. The advantage you have is the lower cost of entry for folks to give it a try and see if it works for them. It's a big leap to get rid of a car - but as DaveW shows it can be an evolution that comes easier when you have personal experience (Dave's wife switching to ebike).
A scheme that allowed folks to try ebikes with no risk for a week would be a good idea.
John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.
All good ideas .. and I totally agree with the idea => electric bicycles are a very "green" way to get around. They may even be "more green" than purist human powered bicycles. And it has to do with the food issue.
First, I've read a number of analyses of "fuel efficiency" for bicycling (e- and otherwise). A lot depends on how to quantify the energy cost of the food.
Ignoring food - my electric bicycle gets 1120 miles/gallon (equivalent based on electricity only), my electric motorcycle gets 130 miles/gallon (equivalent), my gas motorcycle gets 70 miles/gallon, my car gets 28 miles/gallon. Bring food in of course it changes the equation a bit. On the other hand the bicycle has a big health benefit that you can't get on an electric motorcycle or anything else.
The food cost would be the increase in food eaten because you're being more active (bicycling). The thing is I suspect an electric bicycle causes less increased food intake than a nonpowered purist bicycle.
I see electrified bicycling as having most of the benefits of purist human powered bicycling, and a few practicality benefits due to the power assist.
Of course it's not suitable for every possible use case. But electrified bicycling has a broad set of use cases - especially if you get a trailer or a long frame bicycle that can carry significant cargo. I do all sorts of things with my e-bicycle w/ trailer and routinely do 10+ mile shopping runs consuming a fraction of a kilowatt-hour of electricity.
A key benchmark I see is grocery shopping. My trailer easily carries 4 bags of groceries and it's approx 2 miles each way to the Whole Foods. Supposedly Whole Foods shoppers are environmentally conscious, but if so then why aren't there more doing as I do and handle shopping errands with their bicycle? Instead there's quite a selection of SUV's.
- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
I have an "ezee" electric bicycle which I use frequently and enjoy the fresh air and exercise but the first battery lasted 1000 miles and the second is getting tired at a further 3000 miles. I also have an early Insight a Vectrix and various vintage motorcycles but the ezee is the most expensive per mile in running costs.
Interesting commentary and theory. I too have come to the same conclusion, eBikes are the most thrifty of the lot. However, I find myself still sitting on the wall and wanting something different. I try to bicycle commute, 18 miles each way, whenever I can and do a bit over 3K miles/year. I love the exercise, lack of road-rage and just being out there. I love good food and burning ~20K calories/day from riding helps keep me slim, fit and healthy. My bicycle route is 5 miles further than the shortest route by car, just to avoid the traffic and to ride in beautiful places. In the winter the exercise also keeps me nice and warm, something I have difficulty with on a motorcycle. I do not want to mess with an electric vest and gloves or grips. Not even the handy Guzzi style cylinders on my Honda CX650 kept me warm. Back when I lived in the city and rode only 5 miles to work, I bicycled year-around and we got down to one car. Rarely was the snow so deep that I walked to work and once, when it got down to -12°F, I still rode. Moving out to the country changed that. 55 MPH on narrow two lane snow covered or wet roads, in the pitch dark, during rush hour, is just plain scary. That's what I'd like to have an EV for. Winter, slick driving conditions, protection from other vehicles unintentionally playing bumper-cars, salty slop all over that plays havoc with metal and electromechanical systems. I had to replace the drive-train on my commuter bicycle every spring. I'd lube it with 90 weight gear oil and even then sometimes some of the rollers on the chain would just split and fall off. Fortunately the pins keep the chain together. Winter is tough here in the rust belt but an EV that could cope with it and come out shining in the spring would be great. I just don't have much use for one otherwise.
If your only tool is a hammer
everything looks like a nail.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that "E-bikes" can be effective transportation in some cases, but for many of my trips around and into the Washington, D.C. area, they will not do the job, due to limited speed and cargo capacity. I work as a broadcast engineer, maintaining and repairing TV and radio broadcasting transmitters. ( live 10 to 15 miles from most of the locations, and when trouble occurs, response time is MONEY and important!)
My VECTRIX can keep up with traffic, at or above the speed limit, and has an enclosed cargo area under the seat, as well as a rear luggage box, to transport tools/parts safely, even over bumps in the rain. Bicycle type vehicles generally do not have front and rear hydraulic shock absorbers, so test equipment would be more likely to suffer damage. Travel time would be 50 to 100% longer on most trips, using an E-bike, and obeying traffic laws. (I say "Obeying traffic laws" as I frequently see idiots that run stoplights, illegally ride on sidewalks, disregard stop signs, and operate at night without legally required head and tail lights! In Washington, D.C riding on the sidewalk is ILLEGAL for those over 11 years old, and proper lighting and obeying traffic signals is required of ALL vehicles in Maryland, Virginia, Washington, D.C. and most every USA state. It borders on suicide to attempt to ride any small vehicle, especially 2 wheel type, in bad winter weather around/in the washington, D.C. area, due to the extreme mix of drivers from other areas that are unfamiliar with the area, many have never before experienced snow or icy roads, and seem not to fully understand USA traffic laws. In addition, rush hour traffic moves at 35 to 45 mph if conditions permit in the city, and slower vehicles may get crowded off the road! To this you must add the fact that lightweight vehicles are easily stolen, as one or two crooks can easily load them into a truck and drive off-not so easy with my 950 pound, 6 cylinder HONDA Goldwing motorcycle and its 200 pound trailer! (Or the 512 pound VECTRIX scooter) As far as food goes, I started excercising in high school, and still continue, and although I am almost 63 yeasrs old, I am 5' 9" with a MUSCULAR 185 pound body, and a 33 inch waist. I can deadlift over 400 pounds, leg press over 500 pounds, one arm curl over 60 pounds, and bench press over 200 pounds, even with a damaged elbow and left knee. Most people that see me think I am at least 20 years younger, and I do NOT wish to lose any weight. (Yes, I still ride my 10 speed bicycle, but not in rush-hour traffic, and usually only in GOOD weather.)-Bob
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Robert M. Curry
Was thinking about the food thing just now ...
Took a load of stuff over to Goodwill .. that meant hitching the trailer to the bicycle, riding over there, dropping stuff off, then on the way back home stopped at the hardware store to see about some washers for the other e-bicycle I'm building. Total trip approx 6 miles, 36v e-bicycle, 2+ ah consumed hence a total of around 100 watt-hours of electricity.
I had lunch (relatively small) and will be eating dinner later, as is usual.
The thing is that I can't imagine that I'll be eating any more food because of the bike ride than if I hadn't done it. Partly that's the fault of American restaurants who seem to have a skewed idea of the proper proportion of food to eat at a meal. Partly because the e-bicycle made the ride rather easy.
I'm thinking mebbe this is an overblown criticism.
BTW - Bob - who said that bicycles don't have cargo capacity? Ever hear of panniers? Ever hear of cargo bicycles? If you haven't heard of cargo bicycles I suggest for example Madsen bikes or xtracycle or some other brands.
- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
Bikes, scooters, motorcycles, NEV's all run into limits. They work well in some situations but require compromise, attitude or dress adjustments to work over a broader range. The car, and the environment that allows it, has evolved to be quite convenient, be it to drive 20 ft to fetch the mail or to go to the other end of the country and the weather really doesn't matter. Speaking of cargo bicycles, I like the Bakfiets cargo bicycles because the cargo is right in front of the rider where it can be kept an eye on. Several have been electrified. Lighting is of course extremely important on any vehicle on the roads at night. I built my own headlight using a Shimano Nexus dynohub and a couple of 3 watt Luxeon LEDs attached to precision optics. Though consuming only 4 watts of my power they provide good lighting at ~20 MPH on unlighted rural roads and will stop drivers at intersection who will wait for a long time to see what the heck I am. My neighbor came over one evening to say Wow! and ask me what kind of lighting I had and said it was extremely bight and very visible. It would be quite adaptable to an eBike using a buck regulator for whatever voltage you run and as many LED's you want to light. My rear red blinkers are among the best rated out there. Be that as it may, some cage not looking where they are going for a few seconds is not going to see the dazzling light show and I can wind up just another road kill. The laws of physics trumps the laws of the land.
Food? I don't care about it's cost. Good produce tastes so much better than the stuff designed for long distance shipping found at most grocery stores. I never knew... I love consuming it and then burning it off :o)
If your only tool is a hammer
everything looks like a nail.