Vectrix charger standby power consumption

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kingcharles
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Vectrix charger standby power consumption

This week I used a power usage meter to look at the power consumption of having the Vectrix connected to the power grid.
The result for my Vectrix are quite alarming!
The standby consumption is 107W. That is without any fans or display running. I checked this consumption several times before and after a delayed charge cycle and it was always 107W

I left the power meter connected for exactly 24 hours, withing these 24 hours it did one (delayed) charge cycle to take it from 35% (6 bars) capacity to 100% (17 bars). This is the charge I need after my ride home from work.
The total power consumption for the 24 hours was 5,kWh. This means if you leave your Vectrix connected to the power grid you waste 2,kWh per day!

I find this shocking, a bike which presents itself as a environmental friendly bike should not have such an outrageous standby usage.
I will get a clock that switches power on and off and will give my Vectrix 5 hours of electricity per night in order to restrict the power waste.

So my advice, don't leave the Vectrix connected to the power grid any longer than necessary!

Aircon
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

This week I used a power usage meter to look at the power consumption of having the Vectrix connected to the power grid.
The result for my Vectrix are quite alarming!
The standby consumption is 107W. That is without any fans or display running. I checked this consumption several times before and after a delayed charge cycle and it was always 107W

I left the power meter connected for exactly 24 hours, withing these 24 hours it did one (delayed) charge cycle to take it from 35% (6 bars) capacity to 100% (17 bars). This is the charge I need after my ride home from work.
The total power consumption for the 24 hours was 5,kWh. This means if you leave your Vectrix connected to the power grid you waste 2,kWh per day!

I find this shocking, a bike which presents itself as a environmental friendly bike should not have such an outrageous standby usage.
I will get a clock that switches power on and off and will give my Vectrix 5 hours of electricity per night in order to restrict the power waste.

So my advice, don't leave the Vectrix connected to the power grid any longer than necessary!

Thanks for doing the research. Very interesting, and I'll be doing the same thing you're doing.

AndY1
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

That's why I'm using a plug timer.

kevin smith
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

same hear from day one.
always used to set timer on my cooker in kitchen. soon as i so when alarm when't off unplug it straight away or
switch off from inside house i have a plug in timer. i use aswell.
really soon as i really found out at how much wasted energy was wasted i was quite shocked to say the least .and at best embarrased to explaine to the girlfrent at the wastage
when electrical aplinces are left on stanby ..
i wunder what makes electric items do compleat shutdowns after finished cycle like my latest highley efficent AAA++
LG..........washing machine .?? wunder if its really simple electrical component that can connect simple as to a plug/ cable ..
hey i acn feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel
an envention on the horizon????
.kev

kingcharles
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Using cooking timers etc. are workarounds, the design is flawed. That was what I tried to get across. I hope the new Vectrix owners read this forum and improve future models. I doubt that the existing model can be fixed with a sw upgrade.

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

snail
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

I doubt that the existing model can be fixed with a sw upgrade.

I'm sure you're right. I believe the charger lacks the ability to isolate itself from the mains once the charge cycle is complete. I discovered quite early into my ownership that the charger got very hot if you left the power on after charging. I quickly got into the habit of turning the power off (and subsequently bought a £10 timer switch...)

Brian

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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Does it also get hot in the pre-cooling time period?

kingcharles
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Does it also get hot in the pre-cooling time period?

I have not noticed it getting hot at all, but since I received my Vectrix it has been around 0C or below here...

You can set a non-forced air cooling period by a timer of course, just set the timer to switch on after a few hours, the batteries will have cooled by natural convection. As long as the ambient temperature is not too high it is a cheap workaround to the delayed charging which wastes energy.

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

AndY1
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Yeah, I do that also.

Mik
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption
Does it also get hot in the pre-cooling time period?

I have not noticed it getting hot at all, but since I received my Vectrix it has been around 0C or below here...

You can set a non-forced air cooling period by a timer of course, just set the timer to switch on after a few hours, the batteries will have cooled by natural convection. As long as the ambient temperature is not too high it is a cheap workaround to the delayed charging which wastes energy.

It's unusual for the batteries to require pre-cooling during times when natural convection would make any difference.
If the ambient air temperature is below 18degC, you probably don't need to worry about pre-cooling (unless you park in a deep garage like AndY1, and your battery is 35degC hot because it's really hot outside the garage).
If the ambient temperature is above 25degC, then you can wait all day for your battery to cool down from temps of more than 30degC, but you'll find that it takes several days to make significant difference if you just rely on heat dissipation without running the impellers to actively cool.

Just waiting for the batteries to cool, without running the impellers, is nonsense; and it makes no difference if the nonsense comes from the firmware or the rider!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

antiscab
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

FYI,

my batteries have been hitting 48 deg c on charge and 50 deg c on discharge several days in a row
luckily i can cool them all the way down again overnight as i work. interestingly, even at those temperatures, i still get full range.

anyway, back to the charger not turning off,
while looking in an electus catalogue, i came across this:
http://www.electusdistribution.com.au/productView.asp?ID=11596&CATID=Search%20all%20Categories&keywords=mains+standby&SPECIAL=&f...

ive ordered one, so if it works properly (unlike *every* timer i have ever tried to use) ill make them available.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

kevin smith
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Hi .
well just thinking about this product as don't think it is fool proof ??
as wonder if it is like the eco button as can be used by windows ??
because what has to be done is button pressed then computer goes into eco mode then if a button is presed it awakes
from deep sleep..
i wonder if this product will pickup on the vectrix been on standby after its finished its cycle ??
because. tv.s computers etc etc. are not ushally so wast full on stand buy so therefore the device knows a little
bit of enegy is been wasted so there for standby mode can be used..
am i been nieve ??
is there a device out there that is fool proof and needs no outside .intervention .??
i/e just atach and soon as this machine knows/ lurns after few times used it picksup on the lowest setting and therefor lunes to put self into standbuy mode
HOW hard can a divice be to make ??????????
or are we talking a invention in the making ???????
am shure that with all our brains ..
that we could come up with something????
ALSO its just got me thinking how many EV out there are so wasfull
please take note all ev manurfactures as this is a BIG selling point
you see it all over the place standby this stand by that this is an ev bread n butter so am i the only person
that cares??????? with really not that technical . but
willing to lurn..
kev...

Mik
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

FYI,

my batteries have been hitting 48 deg c on charge and 50 deg c on discharge several days in a row
luckily i can cool them all the way down again overnight as i work. interestingly, even at those temperatures, i still get full range.

anyway, back to the charger not turning off,
while looking in an electus catalogue, i came across this:
http://www.electusdistribution.com.au/productView.asp?ID=11596&CATID=Search%20all%20Categories&keywords=mains+standby&SPECIAL=&f...

ive ordered one, so if it works properly (unlike *every* timer i have ever tried to use) ill make them available.

Matt

I think you might have trouble with this standby-mode-sensing device.

A) The Vectrix will not try to start charging after charge delay has been selected if the power is turned off. The device needs your input to re-awaken whatever is connected by using the remote control.

B) It will probably never come to the above problem, because the device will interpret the excessive standby power consumption of the Vectrix as something other than standby.

C) It will also interfere with EQ charges, when power gets turned off completely every so often.

I don't understand why you had so much trouble with finding a timer - I have tried at least half a dozen, and all of them worked! Often they give up the ghost or loose their programming or have mechanical failures, but electrically all of them did the job OK. They only get a little bit warm.
I use the double outlet 7 day timer (Chinese cheap thing) from Bunnings. It is a pain to re-program and looses all it's programming when the two button cells are removed or rattled or emptied. So I soldered two AA long life batteries to it instead and fixated them with a lot of hot melt glue. That should run for several years. Each timer is programmable separately from the other, so I have different settings for pre and post charge ABCooling and charging for each day of the week.
The battery always gets cooled immediately when plugged in and for as long as I like. Cooling continues for as long as I like after charging and resumes in the early morning hours when there is actual cooling air available.
I even run cooling cycles from 0200am to 0500am on days when the Vectux remains unused, because that is often the only time when heat can be removed from the battery during Australian summer conditions. Just like the battery stays hot for days if the impellers are not running, it also stays cool for days if it does not create it's own heat during operation or due to being parked in the sun!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

antiscab
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

I think you might have trouble with this standby-mode-sensing device.

A) The Vectrix will not try to start charging after charge delay has been selected if the power is turned off. The device needs your input to re-awaken whatever is connected by using the remote control.

B) It will probably never come to the above problem, because the device will interpret the excessive standby power consumption of the Vectrix as something other than standby.

C) It will also interfere with EQ charges, when power gets turned off completely every so often.

during the charge delay when the fans run, only the standby current is drawn from the mains.
if i understand how this device works correctly, you power it up, it waits until current draw goes above some certain point, then when it come back down again, it switches off.

when i get it, i will find out if its original configuration is already correct. if not, then i will pull it to bits to see if it can be hacked into being correct.

when i first saw it, first thing i thought of was "wow, i could buy those and combine them with some DIN rail kwh meters, re package and sell :D ).
but, i will find out when i have it :)

if it works as is, ill just make them available as is.

as for the EQ charges, it will give the user some control over when the EQ charges happen.
mine keep trying to do it when ambient temp is above 30 deg c.....grrrrrr
alternatively, freddy means you can do it manually.

I don't understand why you had so much trouble with finding a timer - I have tried at least half a dozen, and all of them worked! Often they give up the ghost or loose their programming or have mechanical failures, but electrically all of them did the job OK. They only get a little bit warm.

*snip*

I even run cooling cycles from 0200am to 0500am on days when the Vectux remains unused, because that is often the only time when heat can be removed from the battery during Australian summer conditions. Just like the battery stays hot for days if the impellers are not running, it also stays cool for days if it does not create it's own heat during operation or due to being parked in the sun!

all the timers i have tried (from bunnings, coles, jaycars, etc) have turned the vectrix on, then immediately tripped out (shut down).
i suspect it may be the starting pulse from the chargers DC bus caps charging up (seriously, those caps are ridiculously low ESR and unobtanium).

anyway, i ordered a 20A rated timer aswell, so that should hopefully work.

luckily, im at work during the coolest hours, so i have the oppurtunity to set the a really long cool down at 10pm, have charging finnished by 2am, ride home, be home at 3am, and still charging again during the cool hours. unless it pulls an EQ on me.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Mik
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Something might be different about your Vectrix - you are the first to describe problems with timers, IIRC.

I have watched the start of charging many times, never saw an inrush current or a tripping of a breaker.

What is "ESR" ?

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

marylandbob
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

It is likely that VECTRIX standby power is different at different A.C. input voltages. Check it with input of 115-130 volts, then test again at input of 220-250 volts. You may see noticable difference in standby consumption! (Many switching supplies have lower standby requirements at the lower input voltage.)-Bob C.

Robert M. Curry

Mik
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

It is likely that VECTRIX standby power is different at different A.C. input voltages. Check it with input of 115-130 volts, then test again at input of 220-250 volts. You may see noticable difference in standby consumption! (Many switching supplies have lower standby requirements at the lower input voltage.)-Bob C.

It appears to be 0.5A irrespective of input voltage.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

marylandbob
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Hello, Mik!
Then what I guessed was the case is TRUE! If input amperage remains constant during standby, regardless of voltage, POWER used will be LESS at lower input voltage! 1/2 the voltage, but identical amperage= 1/2 the WATTS (Power) I guess for those of us using 110-130volt power, the charger will run more efficiently in standby, but it might not be as efficient when actually charging? Testing at both voltages for POWER (WATTS USED) will need to be done.Bob C.

Robert M. Curry

antiscab
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Something might be different about your Vectrix - you are the first to describe problems with timers, IIRC.

I have watched the start of charging many times, never saw an inrush current or a tripping of a breaker.

What is "ESR" ?

ESR = equivalent series resistance.

the timers i have used i wouldn't have thought would include a circuit breaker, but they all seem to turn the vectrix on for a moment, then shut it down.
i dont know why, but they only do it for the vectrix (though the vectrix is the biggest load i have tried them with).

my vectrix hasn't tripped any "real" circuit breaker

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Mik
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

...
...
the timers i have used i wouldn't have thought would include a circuit breaker, but they all seem to turn the vectrix on for a moment, then shut it down.
i dont know why, but they only do it for the vectrix (though the vectrix is the biggest load i have tried them with).

my vectrix hasn't tripped any "real" circuit breaker

Matt

Does this happen when the speedo needle is rising and the current draw rises, or before that? Both my VX-1s were drawing little current before the speedo needle begins to move.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

antiscab
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

it trips out before the display is fully powered up.

the surge on start up happens during the first ~0.01 seconds, or the first full mains cycle.
thats from the caps on the input stage charging up (if im not mistaken).

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

antiscab
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

i tested out that gizmo that shuts down devices when they go into standby.

turns the vectrix on and off no worries (when i ask it to manually).

but the 100w standy draw is too much to trigger the shut down.

mods needed to get it to work by the looks of it.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

antiscab
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

finnally found a gadget that will turn a Vectrix off when the charger goes into standby:

http://www.chinavasion.com/product_info.php/pName/saving-energy-usage-monitor-and-power-outlet-controller/

I did a bit of a write up here (Last post):
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=1914&PN=1

cheers,
Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Aircon
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Excellent. Purchase made.

R
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Another possibility: Replace the old vectrix charger with the a new vectrix "runke" charger. It solves some of the previous problems, like standby consumption.

kingcharles
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Re: Vectrix charger standby power consumption

Can somebody with such a new type "runke" charger do some tests and list the standby power consumption here please?
Thanks

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

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