Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

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AndY1
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Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

We already know, that the only way to actively cool the battery without charging is to connect it to the plug and set a pre-charge cooling.

Let's say, I want to drive somewhere 60km away, but I have to go over a 1200m height, which is at halfway. That would be followed by a steep decline, where regen is used.

So on the way up, the speed would be between 20km/h-30km/h, which wouldn't cool batteries enough, especially not equally. The batteries in the middle of the pack would be warmer than the ones on the outside of the pack.
On the way down, using regen, that would be even more noticable, since previously warmer cells would warm up even more than the other ones, which would also result in unevenly charged cells.

My solution is to cool down the battery pack, or at least equally cool all cell at the top of the hill, before going down, using regen. But there's no plug up there.

Would Vectrix plugged to a 150W 12V->220V converter start a pre-charge cooling sequence, since that sequence only draws 45W?

I'd use a converter like this
//www.avtooprema.si/images/oglas/2858_1.jpg)

and I'd connect it to a 3cell 2000mAh LiPo pack (my RC helicopter LiPo pack), which gives 12.6V fully charged.

If yes, than this should sufficiently cool the pack for about 15 minutes, which would be, for my purpose, enough.

Spaceangel
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

How would the Vectrix try to limit current. Charger is built in! It is computerized! and when all the parameters are met! It tries to draw full AC. At 100 -120 it will draw the full 12.5 or 13 Amperes and at 240 ish it draws 7 amperes. yes/no? I just stop about half way and get a 30 to 45 minute charge at a friends house. But being in Taxachusetts USA it is rather cool even in Summer time. As for keeping the batteries cool when you have to use massive power on a hill or steep grade, well I just do the unsafe thing and hug the side of the road to let cars go by. BTW, I tried a real hefty inverter on my scoot. It ran for 30 seconds and went into shutdown. My Inverter was 3000/6000 watt and used 24 volt input. Even though AC amps went up slow it finally gave up. My inverter did 75 for the few seconds.
So I can't comprehend do a charge or cooling at 12 volts. Have you tried it.

Rusty

KB1UKU

AndY1
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

I don't know if you have the latest software, but with latest software, if you set the pre-charge cooling (let's say 30 minutes), it only draws 45W from the plug, as the battery fans are powered from the battery itself and no charging is yet happening (45W = 0.2A@220V) until 30 minutes pass.

And I'd only need 15 minutes of that cooling. No need for charging the batteries. I just want Vectrix to think, that it's connected to the wall plug and start cooling the batteries with pre-charge cooling sequence.

HarryS
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

Both your battery fans will be running once the batteries reach temperatures in excess of 32oC and will stay on constantly. I don't see how your ride would pose a temperature problem for the battery. If they do get hot, even when you turn the bike off, the impellers will continue to run until the batteries reach a save temperature. Here in the South, on my summer rides home from work, battery temperature reached the low 30s every day since the ambient temperature was around 30-32. The impellers were on constantly and stayed on when I turned the bike off. I don't think there is a need to trick the bike into cooling.

AndY1
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

My experience tells me otherwise. With my previous battery, battery fans wouldn't turn on even at BATHOT.

HarryS
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

is that using the Oct 2008 firmware? If not it may be worth upgrading just for that.

R
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

Would Vectrix plugged to a 150W 12V->220V converter start a pre-charge cooling sequence, since that sequence only draws 45W?
.

Andy!,I'm not sure I understand what you want to do:
You want to use a small battery source with an inverter, to turn 12.6v DC to 220v AC, in order to power on the charger (220 AC to 150 DC), and that 150DC turn on the V's step up converter from 150v to 12v(?) to turn on the main computer an run the fans with a precooling delay?
I believe vectrix can't do this: it does not have the ability to convert 220AC to 12vDC to power its electronics (this is why vectrix dies if the main battery voltage goes under 85v). The 12v DC is drawn from the main battery at 125v and reduced by a step up converter (125-12v?). The only thing vectrix can do with the 220v AC is to charge the battery.

In conclusion, It seems to me that it would be a waste of energy. The best approach could be to install a device to turn on the impellers at your wish, using the energy from your 12.6v battery, like the "ABcool" from Mik.

AndY1
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

No, no. I just want to trigger Vectrix' pre-charge cooling sequence in order to cool down the battery pack even though I'm not near the wall plug.

In order to start pre-charge cooling sequence, one has to plug the Vectrix to the plug, but since there's no plug on top of some hill, I want to make my Vectrix think, that it's plugged to the wall plug and that would start (in combination with pulled right brake when turning the Vectrix off) the pre-charge cooling sequence for 30 minutes.
I don't want to use the converter's battery power to run the Vectrix' battery fans, I just want to make my Vectrix think, that it's plugged to the wall plug (socket) and start a pre-charge cooling sequence.

AndY1
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

is that using the Oct 2008 firmware? If not it may be worth upgrading just for that.

No, I still had pre-October 2008 firmware, when battery fans wouldn't start cooling the battery even when I was getting the BATHOT during riding.

I don't know about this, new firmware, because my battery pack has never gone above 28°C so far, and I'd like to keep it that way.

mikemitbike
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

Hi Andy,
i had the same idea when mine went hot last summer (40°C) without starting the Fans. With the precooling delay it should work.
But you should use a "true sinus" converter (no rectangle or modified sinus which could heat up your Charger).

Greetings Mike

AndY1
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

Thank you!

Is there any way to check for sinus, or does that have to be in converter specs?

HarryS
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

If you have an oscilloscope. Chances are that anything less than $500 is actually a step-wave at best modified sinwave inverter.

mikemitbike
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

Hi it has to be in the specs and they are more expensive than modified sinus with the same power (watts)
Sinus Inverter Voltcraft

Greetings Mike

AndY1
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

Thank you to all of you!

antiscab
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

If you have an oscilloscope. Chances are that anything less than $500 is actually a step-wave at best modified sinwave inverter.

price can be a bit misleading,

last inverter i bought was off ebay for AUS$1100 delivered.
5kva cont (thermal limit), 10kva max until THD goes outside of rating, 20kva at switching devices limits.
THD was rated at <2%.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

antiscab
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Mik
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

good grief, i found it again:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/18000WATT-PEAK-48V-PURE-SINEWAVE-INVERTER-70A-CHARGER_W0QQitemZ330392451073QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Boat_Par...

Matt

Aa shame it can only handle lead-acid battery charging.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

marylandbob
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

It would seem a heck of a lot better to simply add a DPDT relay into the cooling fan circuit, to allow application of external 12 to 16 volts D.C. to activate the relay coil, and transfer the fans power leads directly to the added, external battery! This approach would be MUCH mor efficient, and if the external power were removed, or its battery were dead, the relay would return the wiring to normal. (I would use at least a 10 AH battery)Forget using the inverter/converter, use the space saved to install a decent 12 volt battery-I use a 20AH li-fe battery!)-Bob C.

Robert M. Curry

mikemitbike
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Re: Converter 12V->220V for on the road battery cooling

Hi, it might be more eficient, but more tricky to build and more warranty-voiding.
;-)
Greetings Mike

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