The XM-5000Li One Year Later

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Henry42
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The XM-5000Li One Year Later

I thought I would update anyone that is interested.

See "XM-5000Li and XM-3500Li Comparison (My Experiences)" for previous experiences and modifications.

The temperature range I rode in was 35 to 85 degrees The lowerest temperature I rode in the XM-3500Li was 25 degrees

It seems that riding in temperatures over 80 degrees has a limit of around 25 miles or about 30 minutes. That's when the motor overheat sensor engages. It's around 125 degrees using a external thermometer.

I was able to average between 40 and 45 miles per charge with an average speed of 40 - 45 MPH.

Here are the options and replacements I made:
I installed a self powered voltmeter on 3/18/2009 at 200.5 miles
I replaced the ignition switch (under warranty) on 4/17/2009 at 536.1 miles
I replaced the circuit breaker due to it tripping occasionally (BLUE SEA CIRCUIT BREAKER CA1 100A WHITE 7250 from Marine Deal) on 9/24/2009 at 1969.2 miles

I started having (what I consider) issues with the batteries the beginning of November (2009) at around 2260 miles.

I charge the batteries completely (voltmeter reading 80 volts) and after going down hill for only one mile the battery gauge drops into the red zone and the red light light starts flashing. The self-powered voltmeter indicates 65 volts. I've started putting the charger under the seat so that I'll have it if it is needed, as I'm not confident that I can go very far.

Even with the 65 volt reading most of the time I found I still get about 30 to 35 miles per charge (this is on the identical commute as before the battery issue began). It still goes over 60 MPH, so the power is there, just not the distance. There is now 2501.6 miles on the odometer.

Overall I'm still pleased with the XM-5000Li. It is a major improvement over the XM-3500Li (I like the extra speed and distance)

I'm hoping there is a way to re-condition the batteries to get the 22 percent back (back to 40 - 45 miles per charge. Maybe the 22 percent will come back once it gets warmer.

Reid250
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

If you read some of the posts, you will find 2-3 others have described the exact problem with their scoots. To find the problem you measure the individual cells after they have been discharged, before they are charged. You may find one cell that is way below the others.

reikiman
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

I'm with Reid on this - it sounds like a weak or dead cell. IIRC there's no BMS which I regard as a design flaw.

Reid250
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

I'm running the XM3500 without a BMS for now. Monitoring the individual cells often for starters. If I had paid full price for my scoot, I might be more conscientious and immediately get a BMS.

Now that the local GP Battery Co. are carrying the TS line I feel OK with having to buy a new cell or two. EDIT; This was a bum steer. The local GP only carry "consumer cells" for small appliances, no scooter, EV cells of any kind. They were not interested in discussing the potential market for anything else.

Two of the Chinese scooter guys have warned me not to buy TS from secondary suppliers as although some production runs are not good enough for OEM, the cells find their way into the market.

I see Mountain says he is doing long tests on his BMS before shipping it.

dexion
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

Perhaps your scoot is like mine. I noticed a higher sag after 1 year (2300 miles) as well.

At first I wrote it off to the main breaker going wonkey and needing to be replaced. (I used the c-clamp trick elsewhere in the forum to finish the season up.) I replaced the fuse a week ago when the weather warmed up and no change. So, this weekend I did a charge to 77 volts, I removed the underseat storage (i have this off so much its just got one screw in it now heh.) And tested the top 6 (all you can reach unless A LOT of body work is removed.) They were all within .1 volt of each other. Most around 3.43-3.5. So, i took a wrench and tightened up the top 6 cell terminals. 3 were tight and 9 were lose with 2 more lose then I would like. Took it for a spin and some of the sag is now gone. Ok so thats good. but, its possible that in the under 15 cells (which I have never given any attention because they are a bugger to get to) theres a weak or dead cell. One really doesnt know unless one tests every cell. While the top 6 could all be 3.5 the bottom could be 3.8 with one at 0. Or worse some at 4 or 5 volts to make up for the dead one. So after 3 hours of removing everything I could get to the bottom cells. (Actually you can get the 9 of them easily by removing the top 6) but one has to get to them all. All the cells are 3.45-3.55 with one cell at 3.6. So, out comes my trusty adjustable power supply and I will put all cells to 3.7 over the next day or so. Many of the terminals were lose underneath as well. So, in my case I think the sag is just caused by lose connections and the cells are just fine. The sag is to get through (heat) the extra resistance in the connections. If anyone is interested I will report back what I find after setting them all to 3.7 and tightening everything back up. (It may be next weekend however.)
dex

strawhistle
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

dexion, I am interested in your results ! thanks, LaTeR

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

dexion
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

Well the scoot is back together. Its 44F here in detroit. So its a bit cold. The red light never lit even on an extended full throttle I buried the speedo on a flat road (I have never gotten it over 53mph.) Full throttle will result in the meter going 1/2 way down and extended runs at full got it as low as about 2/3rds down. It was never like this even when it was new. So, I suspect there were lose connections from the factory that got worse over the last year. There is also one connection without a lockwasher on it as well (there is now.) Of the 42 connections about 1/2 were over a full turn lose and a few were 2 turns lose. The batts were all very close they all took about 1 to 1.5 AH to get them to 3.7 and have my supply read .10amps at 3.7V. So I guess the moral is tighten up your connections. Pull the under seat storage. If you can tighten up the top 6 batts the lowers need it as well. (I hope no one ever needs to do this what a pain.) So, who knows how long I can go before doing it again. I wouldnt be upset with every 3 years or so now that they are all tight.

Before tightening up the meter went into the red with the red warning light on anything over about 1/4 throttle (my throttle actually seems to work the entire range of the throw unlike a lot of others where the throttle works for the first 1/2 inch and then its full throttle.) I am happy with the results, but not the time it takes to get it all apart. It would take me about 4 hours to take it apart and tighten it up and put it back together now. It took about 6 the first time.

Reid250
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

Well the scoot is back together. Its 44F here in detroit. So its a bit cold. The red light never lit even on an extended full throttle I buried the speedo on a flat road (I have never gotten it over 53mph.) Full throttle will result in the meter going 1/2 way down and extended runs at full got it as low as about 2/3rds down. It was never like this even when it was new. So, I suspect there were lose connections from the factory that got worse over the last year. There is also one connection without a lockwasher on it as well (there is now.) Of the 42 connections about 1/2 were over a full turn lose and a few were 2 turns lose. The batts were all very close they all took about 1 to 1.5 AH to get them to 3.7 and have my supply read .10amps at 3.7V. So I guess the moral is tighten up your connections. Pull the under seat storage. If you can tighten up the top 6 batts the lowers need it as well. (I hope no one ever needs to do this what a pain.) So, who knows how long I can go before doing it again. I wouldnt be upset with every 3 years or so now that they are all tight.

Before tightening up the meter went into the red with the red warning light on anything over about 1/4 throttle (my throttle actually seems to work the entire range of the throw unlike a lot of others where the throttle works for the first 1/2 inch and then its full throttle.) I am happy with the results, but not the time it takes to get it all apart. It would take me about 4 hours to take it apart and tighten it up and put it back together now. It took about 6 the first time.

Thank you for the time spent to document this problem and the result of the correction.
Reid

strawhistle
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

Thank you Dexion, I will add checking connections to my maintenance list LaTeR

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

dexion
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

No problem, glad I could help. Now if it would just be warmer than 35F in the am I could take the scoot to work. Its 55F in the afternoons. (27 mile 1 way commute.)
dex

Henry42
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

I ran all the batteries until just before the cutoff engaged twice. The voltage from all the cells is about 2.5 (some a little higher as in 2.6 - 2.7) Nothing significant that I see. I did check the bolts for tightness for all except the front 6 batteries. All were fairly tight. Some required ~1/8 turn to have them all at the same torque.

I performed an experiment in which I did a full charge (all batteries at 3.75 volts) and then turned on the switch (kick stand down). I watched the voltage drop to 3.5 within about five minutes. Not sure how to interpret the results yet.

JeffDHood
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

My 9 month old xm5000 speedometer and odometer just stopped working.

vancouver_gadgeteer
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

On one of my 500W scooters, the speedometer cable repeatedly broke due to (what the dealer's techie says) a "too severe" a curvature of the speedo cabling -- a design flaw.

Adding grease to the cable didn't prevent it from breaking again.

yount3000
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Re: The XM-5000Li One Year Later

Just finished reading your thread and I found your info very helpful. I ride the XM-3500Li and am considering upgrading to the 5000Li. Do you believe that the bike has gotten better after your work? When you got your 5000Li, what was the top range you had going full speed? I have so much more to ask and I will let you answer these ?? first.

yount

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