What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

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JasonTaylor
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What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

I have a few questions about the XM-3000.

Q1: There is an "on" and "off" switch directly under the seat, where you put the charger. If I put this switch on "off", the bike will go for 1/10 second and then no matter what I do I have zero torque. If I toggle this on and off switch and wait 1/2 hour and it is "on" bike runs again. What the heck does the switch do?

Q2: There is a "0" "1" switch on the right handlebar. What the heck does it do?

Q3: There is a red "starter" button on the right handlebar. What the heck does it do?

Q4: What mods should I make to insure this bike lasts a while. Should I add a heatsink or temperature sensor to the black power driver converter thing on the left side of the bike? Should I avoid ever getting battery on yellow?

List of present mods:
1) cosmetic do dads.
2) Rear hard case trunk.
3) Both handlebar covers were pointing too far up, so tips of fingers would get squished. I added spacers on the top two screws to angle them down more so there was some room on top and bottom for fingers.

Q5: Bike squeaks sometimes, but it is not brake related. Do I ever need to oil the wheels? Or are they sealed.

Q6: How bad is water for this bike? If it is sprinkling, can I drive it? If there is a small puddle, do I need to drive around the puddle? Does it need to be stored in a garage or would a cover work for it?

Thanks in advance.

Reid250
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

I have a few questions about the XM-3000.

Q1: There is an "on" and "off" switch directly under the seat, where you put the charger. If I put this switch on "off", the bike will go for 1/10 second and then no matter what I do I have zero torque. If I toggle this on and off switch and wait 1/2 hour and it is "on" bike runs again. What the heck does the switch do?
You have figured out what this does.
Q2: There is a "0" "1" switch on the right handlebar. What the heck does it do?
call it hi/lo or economy/speed whatever you like. use it and ride to learn what it does.
Q3: There is a red "starter" button on the right handlebar. What the heck does it do?
Push the button and let us know? does it go beep?
Please spend some time reading the archives. You will find the manual there if you don't already have one.
Q4: What mods should I make to insure this bike lasts a while. Should I add a heatsink or temperature sensor to the black power driver converter thing on the left side of the bike? Should I avoid ever getting battery on yellow?

List of present mods:
1) cosmetic do dads.
2) Rear hard case trunk.
3) Both handlebar covers were pointing too far up, so tips of fingers would get squished. I added spacers on the top two screws to angle them down more so there was some room on top and bottom for fingers.

Q5: Bike squeaks sometimes, but it is not brake related. Do I ever need to oil the wheels? Or are they sealed.
Sealed
Q6: How bad is water for this bike? If it is sprinkling, can I drive it? If there is a small puddle, do I need to drive around the puddle? Does it need to be stored in a garage or would a cover work for it?
I have ridden in very heavy rain without an problem.
Thanks in advance.

JasonTaylor
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

Thanks, but I already searched the archives Reid. What url/post/thread specifically answers all these questions, exactly?

You have figured out what this does.

Then why does it not immediately work if I put it on "on"? What is going on inside?

Q2: There is a "0" "1" switch on the right handlebar. What the heck does it do?
call it hi/lo or economy/speed whatever you like. use it and ride to learn what it does.

Thanks Reid, I had heard the "gear switch" was under the seat, but this makes more sense. The picture in the manual does not show the switch. But which position is high and which is low? Is the 1 is high or the 0? I tried both but noticed no difference. Also, is low gear hard on the controller?

Q3: There is a red "starter" button on the right handlebar. What the heck does it do?
Push the button and let us know? does it go beep?

Well it doesn't seem to do anything, but then there is something about a discharge switch in the manual. Then again, the manual is so bad. My guess is it is unconnected, like the 0-1 switch and light switch for that matter (since headlamp is always on, last thing I need on a battery powered bike) so that
is why I was asking. Has anyone rewired the light switch to disable the headlamp in an emergency situation in which you need to get home and are low on batteries in the daytime? What changes were required? Or did you just add in another switch in series?

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

tabloid
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

The ON/OFF switch under the seat is connected directly in series with the batteries. I don't understand why you have a delay when turning your switch to the ON position. Personally, the only time I have ever used that switch is when servicing/modding the bike, I leave mine on constantly. Even with the bike sitting unused for over a month, there was no significant drain from the batteries and I was able to jump on and ride immediately. I recommend simply leaving this in the ON position. (Perhaps you have a problem with the circuit breaker, and that's why you're seeing a delay when turning it on? Others have had to replace that breaker.)

0/1 switch on right handlebar is indeed the power/economy switch. Again, I don't bother changing that switch. In one position, the highest speed avail will be approx. 25mph, in the other position the high speed will be closer to 40mph. No, it makes no difference to the controller which position you have it in - it simply "limits" how much throttle signal is being seen when you twist the grip. There is no gearing on this bike like the older XM2000. On mine, the "0" position is high speed, "1" position is limited speed. I simply leave mine on the "0" position and control speed with the twist grip. (duh!) But then again, I have mine licensed and operate on the road with all the regular traffic rather than trying to fall into the "moped" or unlicensed crowd, which does have a restriction of 25MPH in the state of Virginia.

The red pushbutton on the right handle does nothing on this bike. It would have been used for the engine starter switch for a gasoline-powered bike. It's disconnected internally.

Don't bother with adding heat sinks. I'm a big boy (250lb) and have never run into a overheating condition on mine with 2159 KM on the odometer.

Water is never good, but it can stand some abuse. Go back and search through this forum (8/14/2009) for my story of riding through some seriously deep water. To this day, I still haven't had any problems that I can associate with that incident.

Squeeking? Where does it seem to come from? Mine seems to be from the rear shocks, probably due to the heavy load of my ass riding on them. It only occurs when I first sit on the bike as the shocks/springs are "loaded" - then nothing further. I also get an occasional chirping from the brakes, but a quick touch on the brake handles will usually reset the calipers to a position that doesn't allow contact between the brake pads and rotors.

I have never relied on the built-in "battery voltage gauge". I added a CycleAnalyst to mine shortly after buying it, and watch my actual pack voltage. I start getting real nervous and want to find a plug-in when the pack voltage drops below 55 volts running at full speed as the batteries are nearly depleted. (I believe low voltage cutout on this controller is set for 52 volts). My battery pack is still original, almost 2 years old and not as much range as original - although I can still get a good 18+ miles before I start worrying. I charge it every day I ride it at work, and it's only a 2 mile run from the house to work (one way). I keep the original charger at work, and use a group of 5 12-volt chargers for bank charging when I'm home. Again, see my posts in the past on this forum (7/30/2008) for information on how I modified mine for bank charging. Since installing my CycleAnalyst, I have accumulated 186 charging cycles, expended a total of 1275Ah and driven 1054 miles.

I have done ZERO maintenance on this bike since installing the CycleAnalyst over a year and a half ago, just an occasional wipe down to remove the dirt and check the tire pressures. Oh yeah, I did replace one of the headlamp bulbs last summer, no biggie. I am still considering an upgrade of the original 12 volt converter, I have heard that the switching power supplies used by DELL for their laptops are great for this application with a true 12volt (or greater) output rather than the 10-something volt that the factory converter supplies.

The red LED mounted on the left of the instrument cluster does nothing. Labelled "diagnostics". Not connected internally.

The amount of power being consumed by the headlamps/running lamps is so small compared to the amount of power needed to operate the hub motor makes disabling the headlamps a fruitless endeavor. We're talking less than 75 watts of power for all lamps vs. a minimum of 300-500W just to make the bike move at 10mph. If you're running low on battery power, simply ride at a much lower speed. This will also help keep the controller from cutting all power from the motor, since the pack voltage will stay higher with less load on it.

Got more questions? Ask away!

(No longer) XM3K, Bank charging using Vector 2-4-6 smart chargers, Cycle Analyst
Official member of the "I laid it down and I felt stupid" club

JasonTaylor
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

tabloid, thanks so much for answering my questions. I apologize for the tardy reply. You are welcome to visit us anytime you come a little north to dc.

On under seat switch: "The ON/OFF switch under the seat is connected directly in series with the batteries." I don't think so. The lights work great while switch is off. But I think I was just stranded and it took about that long before I ended up trying it with the under the seat switch in the on position. It works perfectly and I was confusing the lights and motor and I guess my data was bad.

On high low: It has been so hard to notice which gear was low and high but thanks to you and only you I now know.

Headlamps: I love your logic here. OTOH I somewhat disagree about the headlamp #s due to the fact that for me in a normal drive I am not actually full throttle very often. I mean I am usually sitting in the parking low messing with my helmet or kickstand or waiting at a ligh or coasting. I don't drive it on the freeways. I mean there is a switch and I sort of want it to work. I don't mind a few electronics or computers that lie to me but on a bike like this doing 50 mph inches from a car doing -50 mph I like to think I have total control. It would be cool for me to notice the power boost by turning off the headlamps in a test run. I love that soft of thing.

I think you are crazy to not keep the charger under the seat. Reason is that oine charger will overcharge slightly compared to other, so you will only have full charge on that charger. Better to use one charger than two. I learned that with my cell phone batter chargers. (Most of the chinese ones overcharge.) Cycleanalysis is so overkill. Gimme two volt meters and a few resistors and let me figure i t out. "the Cycle Analyst has the ability to over-ride the user's throttle " Is that really a feature?!? I was upset with antilock brakes too....so don't listen to me. hehe. later and thanks again and do take me up on my offer.

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

tabloid
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

Speaking of tardy replies! This one is only what, 5 months old? Anyway, I'm surprised that we must have different wiring configurations on the XM3000 machines. Mine is serial #00022 (last digits of the VIN), so it's a VERY early production bike, or at least very early on the list of bikes that have had a VIN assigned. My headlamp switch on the right side handlebar, above the non-functional engine start switch we talked about earlier has three positions. Far right is lights OFF, center position is the white "running light" on the front of the handlebars (plus rear running lamp), and far left position is Headlamps + running lights. Your's doesn't have a "lights-off" position on the switch?

I mis-stated the function of the blue circuit breaker that you find in the luggage compartment. I stated earlier that it is in series with the batteries - TRUE, but only on the power leg that feeds the motor controller. Power for all the 12V appliances is fuse protected by glass in-line fuses inside plastic holders. These fuses (one input, one output fuse) can be found in the compartment at your feet in the center of the scooter. There is a rubber plug covering the screw you need to remove to take that cover off for access. You will also find that the charger connection is still functional with the circuit breaker for the motor controller turned off.

Your comments about different battery chargers are true, but remember what I told you the difference was between the two that I use. One is the factory charger that charges the entire string of batteries in series (should be the same as yours). I observe that one charging all the way up to approx. 72.5 volts for a short amount of time before it turns itself to stand-by mode. While in standby it is holding around a 68V floating charge on the batteries until it is disconnected/turned off.

My second "charger" is actually 5 isolated-output 12V chargers that I use for BANK charging. They are meant for flooded lead-acid batteries, but work satisfactorily for these SLA's we have. I have added additional cabling and a different 10-pin charging port that I use when using the bank-charge method. I like to use this charging method periodically to ensure that the batteries are reasonably balanced from one to the next - I can monitor this through the charger displays while the scooter is on charge. So far, all five batteries are in excellent balance and I have yet to run into a battery issue (other than age). I posted a bunch of pictures showing the modifications I made back in June '08 timeframe here on the forums if you care to look them up.

Where in the DC area are you at? I'm seriously considering dropping some cold, hard cash back into John Harding's hand and buying a REV-1 from him. Too bad my wife is so afraid of riding this XM3K in traffic, she's scared #&@&-less of being around other vehicles when she tries riding it. I really wanted to hold onto this scooter for her to use, but it looks like it will be sold off (aleady have a potential buyer). It's still a great little scooter, but I look too much like a circus bear on a bicycle riding this thing.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the little twirly-hat that I wear when I'm riding it? You know, the brightly colored red/orange/yellow cap with the propeller on top that spins? :) j/k

(No longer) XM3K, Bank charging using Vector 2-4-6 smart chargers, Cycle Analyst
Official member of the "I laid it down and I felt stupid" club

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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

Speaking of tardy replies! This one is only what, 5 months old? Anyway, I'm surprised that we must have different wiring configurations on the XM3000 machines. Mine is serial #00022 (last digits of the VIN), so it's a VERY early production bike, or at least very early on the list of bikes that have had a VIN assigned.

Well it makes sense. Early models have care in them. Later models it is just a job.

My headlamp switch on the right side handlebar, above the non-functional engine start switch we talked about earlier has three positions. Far right is lights OFF, center position is the white "running light" on the front of the handlebars (plus rear running lamp), and far left position is Headlamps + running lights. Your's doesn't have a "lights-off" position on the switch? How do you take it apart?

Correct. Mine also has 3 positions, but the two on the left are the same functionally, and the far right is the same except the running lights are off. So your left is my middle and left and your middle is my right and your
right has no equivalent to my bike.

Where in the DC area are you at?

Kensington MD.

I'm seriously considering dropping some cold, hard cash back into John Harding's hand and buying a REV-1 from him. Too bad my wife is so afraid of riding this XM3K in traffic, she's scared #&@&-less of being around other vehicles when she tries riding it. I really wanted to hold onto this scooter for her to use, but it looks like it will be sold off (aleady have a potential buyer). It's still a great little scooter, but I look too much like a circus bear on a bicycle riding this thing.

Well I think your wife is going to be equally scared in any bike. Bikes are 35 times less safe per mile than cars. My significant other loves riding the bike, but we are super risk averse, so we don't go anywhere near its full range. More for local trips down the block. I am looking to get some really good protective gear. Knights would have skid pretty far on concrete without injury. People just will think I am going to renfest or something and misplaced my horse.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the little twirly-hat that I wear when I'm riding it? You know, the brightly colored red/orange/yellow cap with the propeller on top that spins? :) j/k

If someone asks you if it is electrically powered say "No, wind," and peel off. :)

I think it is a shame to only get up to what 40 mph or so when the most important roads require 65mph. Isn't the you are eying a battery powered honda goldwing though? At $7,500 it is a real investment. Top speed equal to range? Heavy bike. Definitely safer though. I would be SURE your wife would like it before buying it if that is the problem with the xm3000.

Jason

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

tabloid
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

I find it odd that they would have made that change in the wiring configuration (of the headlamps) further down the production run, but stranger things have happened. I have not taken my switch apart, so you're on your own to figure out how to get into it for rewiring.

The wife's trepidation with driving this scooter has pretty much negated her input into my decision to buy a bigger scooter. I want one that is structurally more sound, heavier feel, physically larger and more power to pull my fat @$$ around town. Longer range is nice, but not my specific goal. However, I will splurge and buy the deluxe version with the biggest battery pack available when I do have the discretionary funds to make this happen. I am tentatively planning a trip to the Elkhart, Illinois area to tour an RV factory (Cedar Creek/Forest River) and will stop by Ann Arbor while I'm in that direction to test drive one of his mules.

I'm thinking we should start a photo contest of our riding gear!

(No longer) XM3K, Bank charging using Vector 2-4-6 smart chargers, Cycle Analyst
Official member of the "I laid it down and I felt stupid" club

JasonTaylor
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

However, I will splurge and buy the deluxe version with the biggest battery pack available when I do have the discretionary funds to make this happen.

Be sure to ask them if the airbag
is extra! Just kidding.
But seriously, why this of all bikes. There are so many to chose from.

I'm thinking we should start a photo contest of our riding gear!

Good idea.

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

tabloid
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

Why did we spend so much money on the XM3K when we could have bought something else much cheaper? Because we can!

(No longer) XM3K, Bank charging using Vector 2-4-6 smart chargers, Cycle Analyst
Official member of the "I laid it down and I felt stupid" club

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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

Tabloid or anyone else, do you think it is safe to switch between low and high gears while driving? Or does the key need to be off? The reason I ask is because the vibration is rather bad in high gear during startup from zero and I am wondering if I can get a more gently take off by starting in "1" and switching to "0" only when/if I really need the extra power. Have you ever changed gears while driving?

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

I have switched my XM-3000 between 1 and 0 while riding with no adverse affects.

I'm pretty sure its just a switch that controls the throttle scaling - so switching while riding is just like a step change in the throttle signal.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

Thanks john! that one datum was all i needed to use the switch. i was thinking it did something different since the website text:

http://www.x-tremescooters.com/electric_mopeds/xm-3000/xm-3000.html
Distance: Max range 50 Miles at 25mph cruising speed*

sort of could be read to imply that the switch increased efficiency by turning off fets or something. I am having trouble wondering how it is wired. e.g. can't be a resistor in series with a pot since off would keep it off. or is the throttle a hall sensor not a pot? actually i was told by a driver the bike won't run if the pack voltage is just right (very low but not too low) and switch is in "0" but will run on "1". any thoughts as to why?

Jason

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

tabloid
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

The motor controller will turn off the motor when it sees the battery pack has reached LVC (Low Voltage Cutout) - somewhere in the vicinity of 52 volts. This is to prevent irreversible damage to the batteries.

Now that I've said that, let's see if I can explain how this relates to the "0 / 1" switch and why the bike will continue (under certain conditions) after reaching LVC.

This is a long one, and I'm speaking in general terms and using generic numbers. Please don't flame me because my information doesn't line up exactly with the readings that you may take on your own machines. Let's not get lost in this explanation by talking about the speed of the motor, counter-emf, etc.

With a fully charged battery pack on your XM3000, the output voltage of the batteries will be approx. 66 volts under no-load conditions, meaning the bike is at a standstill. A battery pack that has been discharged to near LVC will read significantly higher than the 52 volts I mentioned above under no-load conditions (still above 60 volts), because there is no energy being drawn from the battery (disregarding headlamps, etc). Here's an analogy that everyone has probably seen at one time or another - your car. If the car's battery is very low on charge (you accidentally left your lights on or something like that), you'll notice that the lights on the dashboard will probably light up when you turn the key to the ON position. That's because under no-load (or in this case, very light load) conditions, the output voltage of the car's battery is still around 12 volts. But, as soon as you try turning the key to the START position, all of the lights suddenly go very dim or extinguish and you probably hear a rat-tat-tat sound from the starter as it's trying it's damndest to turn over the engine. You have just put a very heavy electrical load on the battery (the starter) and the output voltage of the battery has dropped way below the 12 volts required to operate the electrical system of your car.

For those riders that actually watch their "fuel gauge" on the bike, you will notice that when sitting still the gauge always reads FULL - the reading is meaningless when you're not actually driving the bike. The fuel gauge is nothing but a modified volt-meter, that is calibrated to read between approximately 50 volts at the EMPTY end and 60 volts at the FULL end. With a fully charged battery pack under wide-open acceleration, the batteries are able to supply the required power to the drive motor (right around 3000 watts as measured by my CycleAnalyst - something to do with being called an XM-3000? :<) and still maintain an output voltage much greater than the magic LVC number. As the batteries are depleted the output voltage of the batteries will begin to drop. You'll also notice that the fuel gauge will start moving down from the FULL position when this occurs. If you ease off the throttle when the batteries are getting low, you'll see the fuel gauge reading go back up towards FULL.

So what is happening? The bottom line is that as a batteries are depleted, the output voltage will drop under a load. The faster you attempt to drive your bike, the higher the amount of power being drawn from the batteries (and lower battery output voltage). Conversely, the slower you drive the bike, the less power it draws from the batteries and higher output voltage.

The hub motor on your bike (ANY motor, whether gas, diesel, or electric) requires a substantial amount of power to initially start turning, such as when pulling away from a stoplight. The faster you attempt to accelerate, the more power it takes. Once you have accelerated to the desired speed and the bike is no longer accelerating, the amount of power being drawn from the batteries will drop to a much lower value. This also equates to a higher voltage reading when cruising along. I'm not going into why this occurs - just accept it as fact. Accelerating slowly (rather than just burying the throttle) means that the voltage will stay at a higher value, since slow acceleration equates to a lower power drain on the batteries. Again I use the analogy of your gas-powered car: If you ease away from a stoplight slowly with very little pressure on the gas pedal, the engine doesn't "race" to a high RPM (hence, lower power output) compared to flooring it with the engine screaming and the tires sqwalking. Once you have reached the desired cruise speed in your car, you actually have to let off the gas pedal or the vehicle will attempt to continue speeding up.

Now back to our scooter: the throttle on this bike is similar to a variable resistor, with an output (for the sake of discussion) from 0 volts (not twisted) to 5 volts (wide open throttle). The higher the output of this variable resistor, the faster the motor controller will attempt to turn the hub motor. when the speed limiter switch is set to the "1" position, the scaling of the throttle is changed. Now, it will only provide an output signal of 2.5 volts at full throttle position instead of the original 5 volts when the switch is turned OFF. You could actually control the bike the same way without this switch, but of course you would only be able to twist the throttle part of the way open before you reach the 2.5 volt output desired.

So how does this enable us to continue driving when the battery pack is very low on charge? I hope you already understand the answer by now. Since the "wide open throttle" signal is now only 2.5 volts, the motor controller is not attempting to accelerate nearly as fast as before. This in turn means that the output voltage being "seen" from the batteries will be higher, since the total amount of power being drawn from the batteries is much lower. This prevents the controller from cutting the motor off, since the batteries are still able to keep the output voltage above 52 volts (LVC). Sure, if you continue to drive for a long distance in this power reduction mode, the voltage will eventually sag down to LVC, and now you're stuck pushing the bike along the side of the road.

Sorry to be so long-winded. I hope I have explained this in easy-to-understand terms.

(No longer) XM3K, Bank charging using Vector 2-4-6 smart chargers, Cycle Analyst
Official member of the "I laid it down and I felt stupid" club

JasonTaylor
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Re: What do theses switches do on the XM-3000

It's interesting just how long winded it is. Impressive that the phrase "internal resistance" was avoided. Anyway, proof you are right is that the low speed vibration is just as bad with the speed/throttle/legal reduction switch on ("1"). The 52 volt cutoff is news to me. It implies running into red isn't as bad for the batteries. Also, the full operating range of the controller is 52-85 or 52-80 volts, depending on who you ask. Thanks again for the info.

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

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