Native Z6 scooter

Only by looking at it (not ridden it). The build quality looks good.

I certainly can understand your hesitation. I'm pretty sure the Native scooters are built in Thailand. Fit and finish seemed better to me than the Zapino which while better than many, still feels like a Chinese scooter. Honestly, after riding the Native Z6, it's really hard for me to seriously consider a Zapino or other Chinese scooter. And that will probably change, many excellent quality goods are made in China, the iPhone being a great example. Somehow the scooters just don't seem as well put together.

Still, I'd love to hear from someone who actually owns a Z6 and has put some miles on it. Anyone listening?

The Z6 was in the running for me, too. However, only 16 40aH cells for 48V - about a 2 kw pack total energy, with a 6 kw motor, spelled short range to me.

The distributor talked about getting a demo to a dealer within 275 miles of me, but never said when. Then, they said the new models will have a larger frame for more batts in "Spring 2010." I asked when that was by email. No reply. I called mid-week at 4:40 pm when they are open til 5 to ask again. I heard the receptionist ask the sales guy if he wanted to talk to (my name) from Washington. She came back on and said I just missed him. No call back ever, no email reply.

So.... for $2,399 no shipping as opposed to $4,000 (+ for a 2010?), I went old tech and got an EVD VRLA. 3 kw 60V batt pack, 3 kw motor. Good communication from R Martin. I verified that the EVD frame and controller will handle 20 LiFePo batts when the LAs die.

Just put my first 21 miles on it averaging 38 mph (timed over known distance, I weigh 185) and came in just over 50% on the batteries.

Just my .02 worth on my decision process.

Hi Randalson,

Sounds like you are getting very good range on the EVD VRLA! I'm curious, how is the ride itself?

To clarify for anyone else reading this, the LiPO4 version of the Z6 should be 3.4*16= 54.4 volts as the battery chemistry should provide 3.4 volts per cell. The larger frames are going to be for the Lead Acid batteries, and the Z6 is currently available for around $2500 with the Lead Acids.

For me having a 6000watt engine is about having it be chain driven, and thus gearable, having it be better balanced with the engine closer to the middle of the bike, and having lots of extra power when necessary to evade dangerous situations. The max power does predict range, as one could keep the speed on the low side, accelerate more slowly and use much less than 6000watts.

The manufacturer claims 25/miles with the lead acids, and 50/miles per charge with the lithium ion batts.

For me it's an easier decision because I'm biking distance from the manufacturer and thus much easier to get service if I need it. Just trying to decide what color to get (green vs. red) and the battery decision is a tough one too.

Rudi

I am pleased with the first run mileage. I don't want to go below 50% very often, to maximize the LA battery life. My one way commute is 17 miles, so I can charge at work and keep the batts in good shape.

I don't have much to compare the ride to. I last rode a two-wheeler decades ago, and I haven't ridden other scooters. However, hitting the lumps at the bridges on my road which really rattle my pickup - not bad at all. I am getting used to the balance at cruising speed. It reacts to small weight changes pretty quickly, although I wouldn't call it unstable or anything. At very low speed it is a little tippy, but again I am getting used to it.

I need to extend the windshield somehow to get better aero...long term thinking of a tailbox for aero, too.

The Z6 was in the running for me, too. However, only 16 40aH cells for 48V - about a 2 kw pack total energy, with a 6 kw motor, spelled short range to me.

The distributor talked about getting a demo to a dealer within 275 miles of me, but never said when. Then, they said the new models will have a larger frame for more batts in "Spring 2010." I asked when that was by email. No reply. I called mid-week at 4:40 pm when they are open til 5 to ask again. I heard the receptionist ask the sales guy if he wanted to talk to (my name) from Washington. She came back on and said I just missed him. No call back ever, no email reply.

So.... for $2,399 no shipping as opposed to $4,000 (+ for a 2010?), I went old tech and got an EVD VRLA. 3 kw 60V batt pack, 3 kw motor. Good communication from R Martin. I verified that the EVD frame and controller will handle 20 LiFePo batts when the LAs die.

Just put my first 21 miles on it averaging 38 mph (timed over known distance, I weigh 185) and came in just over 50% on the batteries.

Just my .02 worth on my decision process.

I see the 3500W are still available with LiFePO4 batteries for $200 more, including shipping;

http://www.scootercatalog.com/x-treme-xm3500li-electric-moped.html

They supposedly now have a Tacoma warehouse. Am I missing something?

My opinion is that XM quality control and service don't have the track record to justify a purchase, even though they are "supposedly" fixing that.

I shared with the topic author why I did not choose a Z6.

Yesterday I purchased my EMS Native Z6 after much consideration. I've only driven it twice so this is my preliminary assessment:

I purchased it directly from Electric Motorsports and the owner, Todd, was a pleasure to work with. When I purchased the Z6, he let me know that there are a number of design improvements coming and that they would be installed for me for free - it helps that it's only a few miles from my home!

The last vehicle I had ridden was a Zapino, and I as I road my Z6 home I noticed how much more solid it feels and the advantage of the larger 12" tires and enhanced suspension. The acceleration is quick and very responsive as are the brakes. I haven't pushed it yet as I'm still getting used to the bike.

There are some handy little storage spaces in the front and a hook for groceries. There is however virtually no space at all under the seat as that space is used to accommodate the 5th battery. Interestingly, the lead acid version that I purchased offer better performance than the Lithium version as the voltage is higher (60 volts vs. 48 volts). The range is much reduced but I don't plan to use it for many long trips.

The fit and finish are good overall, but there are a few points that could use refinement. That said, the batteries are AGM rather than the Silicon batteries in the Zapino and should last longer. Also the Z6 at the final purchase price was cheaper than a new Zapino, which from my point of view is a steal. That will vary depending on where you buy each.

EMS offers an upgrade to a regen unit for just $200. I decided to skip it as it only adds 10% to the range and didn't seem worth it to me.

Later this summer the Z6 will include larger, 50amp batteries (mine are 35amp). I decided not to wait, partially because I negotiated a good price, and partly because the current model is easier to upgrade to Lithium ion, something I may do in the future, especially when my lead acids wear down.

Feel free to ask me any questions. I'll post a more detailed review after a month or so.

-Rudi

Congrats Rudi , enjoy the bike , but always drive carefully . am glad you got what you wanted , too bad you didn't opt for the Lithium batts , oh well maybe next time you get to vivit the store huh? Keep us posted please .. thanks Paul C.

I see you are looking for reviews of the Native Z6 electric scooter.

Several Vancouver Gadgeteers (I'm one) went to the Vancouver-area retailer that had this for sale as a prototype.

I took it for a ride previously and noticed some small issues.

This time, we took a good look at the innards and electronics. In our opinion, there will be intermittent and/or hard-to-diagnose electronic problems with the Lithium-powered Native Z6 electric scooter because of several crucial errors in implementation --- unless the manufacturer makes these changes, or the users/owners do it themselves.

Here are just a few of my other opinions and views of the Native Z6 scooter: Throttle-ramping is excellent; voltage dropped by 1/2 with full throttle uphill; there were several squeaks and suspicious noises coming from the steering assembly and drive system which made me abort my ride.

The headlights and taillights are not DOT compliant, which may be a serious hurdle to insurability. The signal lights are not approved for Canadian roads --- Canada requires signal lights to have certain distances from the scooter's body or headlight; charging this vehicle in a public place may lead to charger theft; the Z6 doesn't have room for much cargo in its deck (I carried two large duffle bags in the Keeway F-ACT Tap Water Scooter); there was odd noises coming from the chain drive, which may be chain slap or other chain problem when sprocket radiii aren't suitable, or some such (i.e. if a jackshaft should have been added.)

In my view, a brushess hub motor is greatly superior to sprocket and chain.

Just my two pennies worth of reviews.

Taking the big picture, I'd really like to see a lot more e-cycles on our roads, but sadly, this year, it appears that a combination of factors have made 500w electric scooters and electric motorcycles in metro Vancouver a rare vehicle, despite the statistics in China (100+ million electric bikes and scooters in use there, up from less than 100,000 in 1999.)

I personlly warned demised manufacturers like Tidalforce/Wavecrest and Nova Cruz about one or more fatal flaws in their implementation. (Egovehicles may not be a dead company, but they don't reply to some or all emails as of late, so, to me Egovehicles is going or gone. I advised Egovehicles of several fatal flaws in their implementation and offered solutions.)

Rob

Thought I'd give a quick update now that I've had my Z6 for a few months.

It rides well and handles both good and rough road well. As others have predicted, range is the biggest issue. The good news is that the included Alltrax controller is programmable and thus the energy use can be lowered. In fact my scooter came configured at 80% power which is over 6000watts, probably closer to 8000. The the range at that setting and riding at high speeds (my fastest was 50mph, real speed) was only 12 miles with about 230lbs on the bike including myself.

I just had the controller reprogrammed to 70% power and I'm trying to ride a bit slower. It seems to have improved range but I haven't given it a proper test yet.

For super quick, short commutes, the Z6 is a winner. For longer commutes, it isn't realistic with the lead acid batteries but with lithium ion batts, and a light hand on the throttle it should do better. If I regularly needed better range I'd lower the power a lot more, perhaps to 50 or even 40% and that should do the trick.

All said, the performance is outstanding, brakes are quick and responsive.

-Rudi

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_electric_scooters.php