r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

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DanCar
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r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

Only $20K in California. Sounds like a screaming deal!

reikiman
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

Well, I am excited about it... Only issue is my house doesn't have a 240 volt circuit and I don't own the house and therefore can't get the proper circuit installed.

Anyway ... Nissan LEAF (almost) test ride, impressions, and the LEAF tour ..and.. Some Nissan LEAF questions answered ..and.. Nissan supports electric vehicle & infrastructure deployment project

DanCar
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

It will be interesting to see how much GM drops the price of Volt in response to the Leaf. There were going to charge $40K and build 60K of them first year. Now GM is only planning on building 10K first year.
Here is a video that kind of compares the volt and the leaf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDGWwZ6Z9S4

It will charge with a 120 volt outlet. Hopefully you will be able to charge at work too.

azvectrix
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

I'm going to take the leap if I can get a reservation. My wife thinks the Vectrix experience should have taught me a lesson, but I guess I'm an eternal optimist. And I don't see Nissan going bankrupt anytime soon...

marcopolo
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

I'm going to take the leap if I can get a reservation. My wife thinks the Vectrix experience should have taught me a lesson, but I guess I'm an eternal optimist. And I don't see Nissan going bankrupt anytime soon...

The Nissan Leaf is certainly an impressive first effort, from test driving both I would select the Leaf over the iMev.

However, past reputation and prejudice shouldn't dissuade you from examining the Volt option. There are those who on philosophic grounds hate either range extended EV's as 'cheating', or just hate GM (or all US) made vehicles. The Volt has merits that the Leaf lacks.

It is also worth waiting to compare the Leaf/iMev/Volt with the Ford Focus PIEV. Ford are the only pure EV manufacturer with a proven range of practical EV products and the Focus promises to be the best of the early mass manufactured EV offerings.

These are certainly exciting Times! By the end of 2012, there will be at least 14 EV's available from the major auto makers. With this sort of competition the era of the EV will start to develop must faster than the 'experts' predict.

marcopolo

EV_FanAtic
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

I'm always excited about new innovations in technology moreso concerning EV's altho i'm still interested primarily on 2 wheeled EV's at the moment. Am saving up to get a Zero S in the near future, i kinda like their design.

Also interested in both Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt . Hope i get to save enough to get me either too. Paul C.

if it ain't Broke, don't Fix it..

DanCar
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

We can be more excited about the Leaf when we know what the battery warranty will be. The ford focus EV isn't due until a year after the Volt and Leaf. Not considering the iMiev because of price.

marcopolo
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

We can be more excited about the Leaf when we know what the battery warranty will be. The ford focus EV isn't due until a year after the Volt and Leaf. Not considering the iMiev because of price.

An interesting approach to battery cost is being explored by Ford. Since most of the high cost of Lithium batteries, is the technology involved in providing for battery longevity (10+ yrs), Ford have been exploring the possibility of a 12-18 month lifespan replaced every year during the annual 'service'.

The cost of a major service for an ICE model and the service on the equivalent EV, including battery replacement, would be similar.

Such a concept would dramatically lower the purchase price of the EV, while providing a continuing income for the dealers. The EV owner would also benefit from any new battery technology developments, without losing the large investment in an expensive but obsolete battery.

It will be interesting to see if this concept becomes viable.

marcopolo

Mik
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

.../
...

These are certainly exciting Times! By the end of 2012, there will be at least 14 EV's available from the major auto makers. With this sort of competition the era of the EV will start to develop must faster than the 'experts' predict.

Well, lets see!

So far, all seem to have been stumped again and again by unexpected delays.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

...
...
An interesting approach to battery cost is being explored by Ford. Since most of the high cost of Lithium batteries, is the technology involved in providing for battery longevity (10+ yrs), Ford have been exploring the possibility of a 12-18 month lifespan replaced every year during the annual 'service'.

The cost of a major service for an ICE model and the service on the equivalent EV, including battery replacement, would be similar.

Such a concept would dramatically lower the purchase price of the EV, while providing a continuing income for the dealers. The EV owner would also benefit from any new battery technology developments, without losing the large investment in an expensive but obsolete battery.

It will be interesting to see if this concept becomes viable.

It seems that Toyota did something similar with the MK1 Prius in Japan. The batteries were reportedly swapped for no cost repeatedly. But that was probably not a planned strategy but rather a response to the battery failures resulting from poor design. The Prius MK1 battery becomes imbalanced due to temperature gradients in the battery, just like the Vectrix. (Both are NiMH batteries.) In the later Prius models the battery design was radically changed to the contemporary setup which keeps all cells at the same temperature.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

MikeB
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

Am I excited about the Leaf? Yes, and no.

I think it's great, and I really like that it's going to cost only about $20k here in Georgia. The Atlanta region makes this a pretty good choice, it's fast enough and has the range to handle most commutes around here, and we've also got a pollution problem to deal with. There's lots of people around here who could use this vehicle, and I expect it to serve them well.

However, I'm much happier with my two-vehicle setup: a (diesel VW) car for trips and cargo, and an electric scooter for commutes & errands. The 100 mile electric range isn't quite enough for my regular weekend escape, and having two full cars is more than I want to spend. The car and a quarter setup is working well right now, and I'll probably stick with it for a few more years. At least while batteries are still rather expensive, I think it's better to put them on a vehicle that is measured in the hundreds of pounds, not thousands.

The Volt is a more attractive choice right now (well, later this year at least), since it would manage to deliver both short range electric capability as well as long range trips in a single vehicle. I expect I'll be moving to some sort of range extended electric the next time I buy a car.

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

bokla
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

this is nice information need to know more

AndY1
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

What I'm interested in is when it's coming to Europe and at what price?
If it's scheduled to launch at the same time frame and the same price as in the US, I'm buying one. My 2001 Renault Clio is getting old and is requiring more and more maintenance.

If in 2012 or at higher price tag...

Why is Nissan being so quiet about Europe? It's even better market target than the US, where travel distances are longer than in Europe.

azvectrix
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

What I'm wondering is why the big day is 4/20, of all days. Is there more to the name "Leaf" than meets the eye?...

Wildfire
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

Excited by the Leaf? Yes and no.. I, too, am curious about what the warranty for this car's going to be, hoping for the 8-year/100,000 mile warranty presently offered for hybrid powertrains by most (some?) companies. Still, I did plunk down my $99 and am hoping for additional info as the months progress. Unfortunately I wouldn't get the added benefit of a $5K rebate/credit as in California and other states, but considering I've been saving money for years driving my little $5K Kia Rio with no A/C, power windows or power steering, I wouldn't mind this (hopefully!) one-time splurge.. OK, so that was the same excuse I used to pick up my Vectrix last year ;-)

As for the other options, I'm curious about Ford's efforts the most as the details from their camp seem to be the most lacking. The Aptera also interests me and continues to impress me with the fit & finish and looks of their current prototype. Too bad for an initial "California-only" deployment and the fact that my girlfriend wouldn't back me on this one (she doesn't have a trike endorsement)... Then there's the Volt.. I would be interested, but I saw some show on the "making of" Volt prototypes and it had the opposite of the desired effect on me. Instead of impressing me with the vision of this car being "the future", I instead walked away astounded by the complexity of mating a gasoline and electric drive. Perhaps it's nothing worse than your typical hybrid (which by most measures seems pretty darn reliable), but that complexity concerns me. Speaking as someone who purchased their last car in part due to the simplicity of the engine compartment, such details concern me...

marcopolo
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

As for the other options, I'm curious about Ford's efforts the most as the details from their camp seem to be the most lacking.

Of all the EV major manufacturers, Ford is easily the most experienced in purely EV vehicles. The commitment to Ev and other environmental aspects has been driven for many years by members of the Ford family, in particular, William Clay Ford 1V.

Wisely, Ford sought to first gain experience in the light commercial market. The Ford Focus EV should be a far more serious and practical vehicle than other EV offerings which share no common ICE componentry.

Fords Battery research and possible different approach to battery cost and longevity, may prove to be winner on sales price.

marcopolo

oobflyer
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

HELL YEAH I'M EXCITED! I've been waiting for this for 40 years! Imagine what we'll be able to trade the LEAF in for after driving it for a few years! ;-)

natpix44
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

Yeah I am! I just registered for my Leaf at http://www.nissanleafinfo.com. I live in the OC and chose Tustin Nissan. Where are you guys buying yours?

etcgreen
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

Am I excited about the Nissan Leaf? Yes, but not in a good way.

Large scale EV manufacturing is not sustainable. We are disturbed that all the attention continues.

etcgreen.com EV's and Hybrids are not our Future

Wildfire
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

Though the article was interesting to read, I think that it contained quite a few misleading facts and that the overall result was to end up making a case against themselves. To wit, the article seemed to posit advanced technology diesels as the only sustainable way forward, and I'd agree that they would be a great part of the solution, but I'd interpret their facts as indicating that ANY type of car is non-sustainable at the current rate of vehicle usage growth (something which is quite possibly true). After all, even advanced tech diesels require rare earth metals for items such as starters (which need to be larger, I might add, if start-stop technology is included), electronic circuitry (just as many computers as an EV to maintain clean emissions) and other techno-wizardry (GPS, Bluetooth, etc. all require additional circuitry). If anything, I believe the article woefully underestimates EVs as, asides from the batteries, the rest of the car should prove just as durable as the 300,000 - 1,000,000 mile diesel. And as for the batteries, if the car is designed properly, these can be replaced fairly easily and can even be changed to different chemistries provided a quick firmware update. Though lithium-based batteries are certainly the darling of the industry at the moment, who's to say that you couldn't put in a cheap, fully recyclable 40-mile lead-acid battery (if that meets your needs), a zinc-air battery or some carbon-nanotube-based future-tech at some point down the road.

Then again, I'm probably just day-dreaming again: no automaker is going to be willing to support a single model of car that can stay on the road for 100 years; they're going to want to give you new body-styles, new colors, new gadgets, etc.; their business is to sell you the whole package, not just repair parts to keep your current car on the road. Perhaps THIS is what needs to change. This is heavily our problem (the consumers), though; all one has to do is look at my co-worker's 18 year-old Subaru with 360,000 miles to see what can be done when you're willing to put in a couple thousand dollars into your car for maintenance every year.

Mik
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

Am I excited about the Nissan Leaf? Yes, but not in a good way.

Large scale EV manufacturing is not sustainable. We are disturbed that all the attention continues.

etcgreen.com EV's and Hybrids are not our Future

Welcome to the forum!

You have a most interesting website! One nice example of an interesting and most provocative read on an EV forum:

http://www.etcgreen.com/blog/general/evs-and-hybrids-are-not-our-future

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

oobflyer
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

The first one in Stockton, CA was delivered a few days ago:

IMG_0916.JPG

2008 Silver Vec...
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

Yes, extremely excited...I can't believe you can buy the Nissan Leaf in Hawaii for 20K after the 7500 tax credit and 4500 Hawaii EV Rebate. The car practically pays for itself in gas savings over a ten year period.

I hope to have one this year in my garage next to my silver vectrix. I'm going to see how long I can go without actually buying gas. On the rare occasion it's not perfectly sunny here in Hawaii, then I will have to drive my Ford Escape Hybrid instead of taking the Vectrix. - Wife will be driving the leaf to take kids to school, etc. So over time I will be forced to buy gas...

EVs make perfect sense in Hawaii. Nissan needs to ramp up production already so everyone that wants one can get their hands on it.

JJ

LeThala
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Re: r u guys excited about the Nissan Leaf?

However, I'm much happier with my two-vehicle setup: a (diesel VW) car for trips and cargo, and an electric scooter for commutes & errands. The 100 mile electric range isn't quite enough for my regular weekend escape, and having two full cars is more than I want to spend. The car and a quarter setup is working well right now, and I'll probably stick with it for a few more years. At least while batteries are still rather expensive, I think it's better to put them on a vehicle that is measured in the hundreds of pounds, not thousands.

I'm with you on this. My "hybrid" is going to be a Toyota Yaris paired with a Current Motor Company C124/standard scooter. My scooter will be my everyday local transportation when the weather is agreeable and I'll use the Yaris when it's cold or raining and for long trips. I travel between Virginia and Northern New Jersey every other weekend, a 300 mile trip each way, so I would still need a gas powered car in addition to a plug-in electric because of the 100 mile range limitation of plug-in electric cars.

So the main disadvantage for me of my Yaris/C124 "hybrid" solution is I'm gas powered in the winter and on rainy days. However, the advantages of an electric scooter over an all-electric car as my non-gas second vehicle are many.

1. It's much less expensive. I am paying $200 a month for a brand new Yaris after $2200 down. This number is a little low because I was able to get zero percent financing by getting a 2010 model year leftover. Also I bought it last month before the dealer discounts evaporated due to the Japanese parts shortage problems. My C124 is costing me $84 a month in loan payments to my credit union making my total "car" payments $284/month which is less than most people are paying monthly to drive a gas guzzling SUV.

2. It doesn't use up valuable driveway space. I already have a 2 car household with a single car driveway and no garage. Overnight street parking is technically prohibited in my neighborhood though it's never enforced unless a neighbor complains. A scooter is small enough to be parked in a shed which to me is a lot more aesthetic than turning my front lawn into a parking lot.

3. A scooter uses much less electricity than an electric car. This makes it possible to charge it using solar power. While it is much more practical as well as economical to just charge it of the grid, I like the idea of 100% solar powered transportation. At some point I intend to put together a modest off-grid solar power system that is big enough to charge my scooter as well as serve as an emergency backup system for my house during power outages.

The ideal electric vehicle for me, given the current state of battery technology, would be a one-man vehicle that was fully enclosed for protection from the elements but still small enough to be stored in a shed. A workable compromise would have a roof but no sides so at least I could ride it comfortably in the rain. The compromise would be even better if the roof were cloth and removable like a convertible car so I could put it on in the rain but keep it off otherwise.

John

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