Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

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VectrixAddict
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Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

I have posted here before about my concerns regarding Hesketh Motor Company and whether or not they are a good thing for Vectrix and Vectrix riders in the UK.

Now I have seen what I think could reasonably be seen as evidence of their completely amateur approach to business. Their site is currently displaying pricing without VAT which is, I believe a criminal offence:

"The "Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008" requires that:'All price indications you give to consumers, by whatever means, should include VAT. This total price must be displayed prominently so that consumers can see it. Prices may ONLY be indicated exclusive of VAT at an outlet or through advertisements from which ALL of your business is with business customers" As a "misleading omission" on an invitation to purchase, is a criminal offence, does anybody here think that Hesketh Motor Company could be construed to be criminals?

Or are they possibly just very inexperienced in the world of business and the motorcycle trade, and trading on the ego of having the same surname as Lord Hesketh, the founder of a (some would say) failed British motorcycle company?

I do hope someone from Vectrix in the US reads this forum and considers whether they have made the right decision on their UK importer.

VectrixAddict

Not afraid of having a go.

procrastination inc
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

http://www.heskethmotorcycles.net/

I see.

Have you raised the issue directly with Hesketh?

VectrixAddict
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Why should I bother? I'm not here to help them run their business? They have never replied to anything else I have sent them. Or that has been poseted on this site for that matter. Besides, I'm afraid helping a company that can't even be bothered to get spelling and grammar and facts right on their website would be counter productive for Vectrix and owners.
If they are going to carry on importing into the UK, then at the very least they should get someone on board who knows their a*se from their elbow.

Not afraid to have a go

strawhistle
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

I think this forum is here to HELP all party's to understand, build, grow, and thrive. to expand the interest in ev's of all kinds. if you take that attitude in your own country you will become an old dried up cynic and Vectrix UK will miss an early opportunity to get it right! be kind and benevolent and at least email them before you complain ! LaTeR

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

AndY1
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

strawhistle, I agree.

VAT or no VAT, it's still a very low price.

jdh2550_1
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Why should I bother? I'm not here to help them run their business?

No, apparently most of your online effort is directed at besmirching their name. If you're a fan of Vectrix (as I presume your name indicates) this is a strange way of showing it.

FYI, I just sent Hesketh the info and this URL via their website. I don't know who's correct - but I suspect that you are right and that they should be advertising a VAT inclusive price. I checked Ford (for cars) and Suzuki (for motorcycles) and they both advertise VAT included prices.

They do say "ex-VAT" on their site so they're not trying to hide the fact. However, it would appear that they're supposed to include the VAT.

Not a big deal.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

Buzby
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Oh dear.. you should spend more time in the US, where the price you see ISN'T the price you pay. (State taxes are added after).

As for what Hesketh are doing - if their website is aimed at creating a new dealer network (which it certainly appears to be), then showing prices Ex-VAT in not a problem, providing the do state this... which they do. If their site was aimed at end users only, then VAT should be inclusive. In ANY event, so remember VAT has wobbling all over the place, and following the election is probably going to head northwards again, so if it means they save money instead of paying a web designer to update their pages, I've no issue with this.

Faced with being left on my own with a dud VX1, or having it looked after by someone capable and willing to support my old warranty, I've no complaints - I just wonder why you seem intent on churning up asll this ill-will over such an inconseqential matter.

- Raymond

marcopolo
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

I have posted here before about my concerns regarding Hesketh Motor Company and whether or not they are a good thing for Vectrix and Vectrix riders in the UK.

Now I have seen what I think could reasonably be seen as evidence of their completely amateur approach to business. Their site is currently displaying pricing without VAT which is, I believe a criminal offence:

"The "Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008" requires that:'All price indications you give to consumers, by whatever means, should include VAT. This total price must be displayed prominently so that consumers can see it. Prices may ONLY be indicated exclusive of VAT at an outlet or through advertisements from which ALL of your business is with business customers" As a "misleading omission" on an invitation to purchase, is a criminal offence, does anybody here think that Hesketh Motor Company could be construed to be criminals?

Or are they possibly just very inexperienced in the world of business and the motorcycle trade, and trading on the ego of having the same surname as Lord Hesketh, the founder of a (some would say) failed British motorcycle company?

I do hope someone from Vectrix in the US reads this forum and considers whether they have made the right decision on their UK importer.

VectrixAddict

Not afraid of having a go.

Just curious, Are you a chartered accountant? Honorary secretary for the association of nitpickers and hum-buggers? Traffic Warden? Former East European neighbourhood Communist party block informant? Secret admirer of the Late Lord Hesketh?

Or is your post just an elaborate joke?

Hesketh, are not committing a 'crimminal offence', so stop getting yourself all worked up in self righteous indignation. A criminalcriminal offence requires the principle of intentor wilfully recklessness.

Hesketh's advertising is meant for publication to both business and consumer application in the context of a UK, Euro and world readership. In this context the VAT requirements vary widely, or don't exist, and the simple additive of Ex-VAT is sufficient to alert readers to the possibility of VAT obligations. The object of the VAT inclusive advertising requirement is to prevent misleading or deceptive consumer practises within the UK.

Hesketh is not, by any legal test attempting to perpetrate such an offence.

But, I guess there will aways be tiresome, bureaucracy loving, pendants who will complain.

marcopolo

Aircon
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Oh good. I thought it might be just me that wondered about that first post. I'm just glad to see someone's selling the thing again!!! At the bottom of the specs, btw, is the full price including VAT I believe.

AndY1
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

In a way, it's even better to have a VAT-less price on the website, because if you export from UK & import to another EU country, you don't pay the UK VAT. You pay the VAT in the country, where you register the bike - probably your own. That was exactly the case with my bike.

HubCap
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Yawn

Keep it shiny side up!

Rebel
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Haha Addict You Realy dont know how close you are to the truth when you say that Hesketh are acting criminally.
You Will see that over the next couple of weeks Paul Hesketh will no longer be the importer in the UK.
If any one wants to Purchase Bikes ,spares , or accesories just make sure that you have the goods with all of the appropriate documentation V5 etc before parting with your hard earnt money.

I cant say any more at the moment but watch this space.

Just very well informed

Mik
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

No matter how I try, I cannot rhyme RMC (Really Mad Chipmunks) with Hesketh MC..... sigh!

Here we go again, I fear...

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

marcopolo
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

I cant say any more at the moment but watch this space.

Rebel!! there you are again!!

We all thought the chipmonks had got you!!

Y'know your creditablity ain't that hot, since the last time you couldn't deliver??

I don't know Paul Hesketh, and I haven't had many dealings with his organisation, but since everything you've ever posted has been inaccurate, wrong, libelous, or just plain silly, why don't you employ your talents for sensational fantasy, writing for the National Enquirer and stop butting in when the grown-ups are talking!

(OK, Ok, John I know I shouldn't feed 'em,), but just on the off chance, Rebel, if you have any real evidence of any wrong doing by Hesketh, state it clearly and now! If not, keep it to yourself until you do have!!

marcopolo

R
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Oh my God! what the hell is going on?
Maybe it's the first time ever that I completely agree with an entire post from marcopolo... unbelievable... ;-)
As I would say in catalanglish: "Times are changing"
Rebel, without any evidence your accusations are quite useless...

Rebel
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

OK Point taken about my previous posts so Here's the deal .
If HMC are still the importer in 6 weeks time I will ride one of my Vs stark bollock naked down the Mall singing god save the queen on a megaphone.

Just very well informed

strawhistle
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

rebel, Your proof is ludicrous ! How would we ever know if you performed ?? LaTeR

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

Pedelecman
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Please don't (a) under-estimate Rebel or his insight and (b) bad-mouth Rebel...only time will prove that Rebel's words will be seen to have been right all along...

Watch this space!!!

...some of us know what's going on!

marcopolo
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Please don't (a) under-estimate Rebel or his insight and (b) bad-mouth Rebel...only time will prove that Rebel's words will be seen to have been right all along...Watch this space!!!

Hey, a rebel supporter!(although by the writing style, it may be just rebel)..Anyway guys, is there a tree you all hang out at? A RMC tree-house? Maybe you are another ex-vectrix employee fantasist. There can't be more than two of you, or you could form a club.

We've all grown tired of watching spaces, waiting for rebel to be proved right! If you actually have anything relevant, factual or real to contribute, just say it! If not, leave Steve and his team to get on servicing Vectrix owners, without your unhelpful rumours.

You should perhaps, invite some female chipmunks to your tree-house? Beats watching Dr Who reruns!

marcopolo

VectrixAddict
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Would you now say Rebel was right?

Not afraid to have a go

marcopolo
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Would you now say Rebel was right?

About what exactly?

If you mean that his claim that HMC would no longer be the UK agent for Vectrix. He was quite correct.

However, no one actually disputed the veracity of the claim. What we took issue with, is the long history of unsubstantiated rumours, and abusive nonsense.

In an effort to be fair to Rebel, just in case he had genuinely heard something, we invited him, (sic)

"if you have any real evidence of any wrong doing by Hesketh, state it clearly and now! If not, keep it to yourself until you do have!!"

He was also invited to substantiate his facts, or concede that it was simply a speculation. This, as always, he failed to do!

We all enjoy a bit of speculative "inside information", but it must have some substance or be clearly expressed as opinion. If not, well you know the story of the boy who cried wolf!

Breathless, self important, over excited gossip, even if occasionally accurate, is unhelpful and irritating.

You at least published your pedantic reasons in an effort to substantiate your erroneous claims.

Now in a effort to rid this forum of tree house pedantic, I will repeat my statements addressed to the subject of this thread.

"Hesketh, are not committing a 'criminal offence'! A criminal offence requires the principle of intentional or wilful recklessness.

Hesketh may argue it's advertising is designed for publication to both business and consumer applications in the context of a UK(business), (general) Euro and world readership.

In this context the VAT requirements vary widely, or don't exist, and the simple additive of Ex-VAT is sufficient to alert readers to the possibility of VAT obligations.

The object of the VAT inclusive advertising requirement is to prevent misleading or deceptive consumer practises within the UK.

Hesketh is not, by any legal test, attempting to perpetrate, for deceptive gain, such an offence."

If HMC published this format in a UK newspaper or a billboard, it would be a breach of the act. The Internet is a different matter. Far more difficult to police. There is an Australian defamation case where the ruling held that when publishing deformation on the Internet, a publisher can be held liable in any jurisdiction, even if the material was not directly intended for that jurisdiction.

That ruling would tend to uphold your definition.

On the other hand there are countless other judgements to the contrary! Such is the Law.

Even if you were right and VAT launched a prosecution, the maximum penalty that would be imposed for a such a regulatory breach would be a direction to correct, and costs. (possibly a small corporate fine).

No UK Judge would impose any criminal conviction against the directors, for a minor trade description regulatory breech. (IR v Beecham (UK) ltd.)

I repeat, I have absolutely no connection to HMC, but if you feel so strongly, exercise your right as a citizen, and report HMC to the authorities. Then publish the results. Or take out a private prosecution!

Alternatively, get a life! Take my advice, invite some girls around to the tree-house!

marcopolo

VectrixAddict
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

I wrote 7 words. You wrote 518. Who needs to get a life?

Not afraid to have a go

marcopolo
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

I wrote 7 words. You wrote 518. Who needs to get a life?

Ah, a pendant to the last! Did you really count the words? It's called being gracious. You enquired, I replied.

I am now, more than ever, convinced that this is a wind-up, no-one could be this obtuse!

marcopolo

VectrixAddict
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Re: Now Hesketh behave criminally? Attn VECTRIX US!

Ah but Marco, reviewing your posts on this site, it seems that only you have to resort to insults when losing an argument and misqouting people then arguing against the misquote.

Not afraid to have a go

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