Getting it right (forward or reverse)

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Getting it right (forward or reverse)

Hello, today I got my e-bikes 40amp controller and tried connecting it to a 1.4kw hub motor - this is to replace the 0.6kw motor on my scooter for a power-up. All the wire colours matched and it ran first time but I noticed the wiring got very hot, ie too hot to hold on to! This was after running at full power for more than about 10 seconds. Speed also seemed slow

To cut a long story short eventually I tried connecting the controller wires together that changes motor direction and the damn thing nearly flew out the vice, the wires are now luke warm and I NEED to try this on the scoot... but I checked the direction and now the brake will be on the other side.. probably can figure something out but can I get the motor running happy in the other direction by switching the power wires around?

Eventually I'd like to get another motor as a spare depending on how it performs as I think 1.4kw could be too powerful for my 26ah batteries. The motor I got came on a wheel that is a perfect match for the old one, don't know if I've been lucky or there is a common standard or how easy it is to fit a motor onto a wheel. Any tips from the pro-s here appreciated. If I manage to get it running will post the differences in performance obtained I have no idea what to expect

Thanks
Martin

Spaceangel
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Re: Getting it right (forward or reverse)

I am not familiar with that particular model but I had some thing similar happen on my TANK scooter. I replaced the controller and it to got warm, So I hooked up an ammeter to the circuit breaker and lifted it up to my level and read instruction booklet I got with new controller on eBay and found out there are 36 different combination of hall wires, those little wires. It took me a week of trying and I finally did it buy numbering every wire to log current draw.
I sure wish you the best but it is hard work. But I got my idle current down to 2 or 3 amp from 25 amps. That is the only way I know of unless some one on V has a different technique. I should of found out the two wires for making reverse. I sure could use a reverse again.
PS did your bike lurch forward then appear to go reverse for a moment then go forward again? Like Hesitation.
Rus

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Re: Getting it right (forward or reverse)

Thanks SpaceAngel that makes sence, although I said it's running ok 'backwards' it is not running perfectly and is jerky and clicks at low speed. Didn't get the lurching forward you describe. Strange, this is great way to learn tho!

It's tempting to assume the hall wires are correctly wired up because the colours match (!) and I'm wondering if I might have a duff hall sensor? The motor came from ebay with no history and appears unused, maybe because of a sensor fault?

The 36 combinations would only be if the motor power wires and matching hall wire was different colours? ie assuming motor power and hall colours match and same for speed controller and it was apparent which was +5v and Gnd there would only be three combinations? I guess some motors/controllers are out there with very unhelpful wiring colours

Will try some different combinations and see if this helps, unfortunately I don't have an ammeter

Despite these problems managed a first test drive last nite in poor weather conditions and no back brake, still running the original 17ah batteries which now show the strain dropping the voltage down on an incline, on level speedo read 35mph which is about 10 faster.

Anyway am suspecting hall sensors and possibly causing the heat when seemingly wired 'correctly' (or is it?)

Thanks!

Martin

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Re: Getting it right (forward or reverse)

I have tried to figure out trouble shooting with out an ammeter. I am sure it will help you immensely. When I did get bike up high~ my height almost, I noticed the motor started drawing higher than normal current starting then at a certain point appear to shudder a bit and try to go in reverse. I went to a 2000 watt controller and used a DC Amp meter with ten AWG wires Red / Black married wires to Anderson Power Poles for quick disconnect if needed. If you get wires right it will draw an amp or two on the rack. Oh, and be nearly smooth and not jumpy needle. On mine now the only colors out of whack are the green and blue wires. I did it in a relatively short time of days. I think the reason colors might be off is a different brand controller. Both in China but different cities. My ammeter is an old Emico but Simpson and Triplet make a good meters too. I just installed in in an old Lab Meter base using Micro-amps and cut out old meter to install new meter.

I only got the shuddering on test bench stand because I kicked off the scooter to get it going when it was on ground. Now it is able to go forwards on its own and like you mentioned ~ range increased too rather than the massive decrease it did.

Well when I put the bike in shop they connected charger to my Anderson connectors and I think smoked my controller and that is why I replaced it yet again. Now I know motor scooter repair people might know about a carburetors but not a controller.

Can you find an old Garden Tractor ammeter? They can be had for a buck or two. Most Garden tractor meters are ten zero ten amps and work great also.
You need a needle type amp meter other wise known as D'Arsonval meter. I guess an old Iron Vane is good too. Oh I even have a clamp on DC ammeter using Hall Effect also some place.
Rusty

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Re: Getting it right (forward or reverse)

Hey thanks for your help all this is a learning curve but worth it - I got it working running forwards now Tried 'rotating' the colours and now is much smoother as well and very little heat around the wires or motor.

For an update on performance, it was from a 600w on 22ah batteries to 1400w. It's noticacly more powerful and will do 25mph up slight inclines and 30 level. Pull away is quicker too. The battery drain as expected is heavier and it now goes more into the red area. Range is down to about 10 miles from 15ish before but thats ok for me. PS the new wheel diameter is about 1/2 inch wider as well

I feel pretty lucky to have got this far

However the second part of the upgrade didn't work out as planned. The manual said 17ah batteries so I bought some 26ah anticipating less drain and more power. When I got the old ones out they're 22! hardly worth all the hassle of making a frame to support them and trying to squeeze 'em in. Still, I temporarily rigged them up and gave it a try but they were worse. A quick drive round the block was enough to start dropping volts. Don't know why this should be so as they are new and intended for mobility/golf carts etc.. so that's a mystery

thinking of adding another 22ah in series and following the instructions to replace a resister in the controller. The lack of heat coming from the motor after a run gives me confidence it will handle it, anyone got any words of wisdom?

the only problems - will the regenerative breaking be enough to charge 60volts battery?
also I'll have to disconnect the 48v-12v gizmo and run the 12v system off a seperate battery somewhere, unless tapping into one of the main ones is ok?

then there's the charging to think about

the reason for this is the pull away is still not quick enough to be safe on a roundabout round my way, these idiots come round so fast you have to be quick. it's does seem to need more power from the batteries to get full potential.

will post a pic of the scooter later on..

Martin

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