EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns rear wheel...

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Jenn Rodriguez
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EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns rear wheel...

Okay, tell me what I broke!

I took my scooter out today and the speed was variable, even in full throttle. It started surging, then going slow, then surging, then going slow. In just a few minutes, it wouldn't get over 15 mph, even in power mode. After a while, it wouldn't go at all, and there was the smell of something burning that you probably don't want to breathe. I parked it and brought it home in a truck (fortunately, I was a couple of blocks from home). On last check, turning the throttle made a clicking noise, but didn't turn the rear wheel. It still rolls, but not very easily.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Jenn

reikiman
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

Hey Jenn, good to hear from you again but not under these circumstances.

It sounds like the magic smoke got let out of something. Did you see smoke or just smell it, and if you saw it where did it seem to come from? Was anything hot?

Have you measured the batteries to rule them out? It doesn't sound like batteries but it's best to be sure.

When you say it doesn't roll easily, spinning the rear wheel is easy or hard? Clicking sound comes from where?

I'm half expecting it to be a motor problem, which you've had before IIRC.

Jenn Rodriguez
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

Hi David,

Turning the rear wheel by hand is now very hard, and sometimes makes a "thunk" feel. The scooter's been parked in the garage for a couple of hours and there is still a rather bad smell about it. I was riding it at the time, so I did not see any smoke. The clicking sound comes from the rear of the scooter, seems like the motor area, but I suppose it could be the controller area.

If it's the motor, has anyone replaced an old brushed motor with the new brushless one?

I can't use this scooter for commuting to my new job, but I still use it sometimes to ride to the train station instead of driving there. I'm not sure it's worth spending a lot of money on at this time in my life.... Still, there are times you can park for free with a motorcycle, when the free train lot is too full for cars.

Jenn

Yellow 2002 EVT 4000e

Johnny J
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

I`m sorry to say, but I´m quite certain that a magnet (or more) in the motor has come loose and is jammed in there.
This is not an uncommon fault on early EVTs.

Beeing so hard to turn, the wires in, or going in to the motor gets overheated and that´s where the smell comes from.

This is a very difficult repair, so buying a new motor is propably a better choice..

There is another, less likely scenario.
If the controller is broken, it could short the wires going to the motor making it hard to turn.
To test this you have to disconnect the "Anderson" plugs between the motor and controller.
The connectors are located on the right side under the grey plastic cover.
If the motor turns normally by then, the controller is at fault.

Johnny

reikiman
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

You won't be able to replace the motor with a brushless motor without also going to a different controller. And you might recall that this controller does a heck of a lot of stuff ... remember that time Todd was at your place and we took your controller apart to look at the innards?

If you're interested - I happen to know the shop in Campbell, greenrides.com, has a bunch of the newer EVT's in stock that they really really really want to get rid of and they're willing to make a deal.

Jenn Rodriguez
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

Hi Dave,

Since this is my 3rd motor in 16k miles, I'm not too sold on replacing it with the same thing.

I've been to that place, Green Rides, are they open on any kind of schedule, or do you need to call them to arrange a time to meet? I wonder what they are letting the lithium EVTs go for :).

Actually, the EVT really doesn't fit my current commute, so I am going to park it until my company decides when and where our next location will be. If it moves close enough to scoot too, then I'll decide what to do with my scooter. If not, I'll probably try to sell it as a fixer-upper.

Johnny J - thanks for your diagnosis. After I slept on it, I came to essentially the same conclusion. I haven't double checked that disconnecting the controller will not help, I'll try that next weekend or so. But the "thunk" at certain points in the rotation makes me think "motor", too.

Jenn

Yellow 2002 EVT 4000e

peter3L
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

After reading your comments, it seems also possible that one of the rear bearings has broken. Symptoms are the same.
If a bad bearing is the causing the trouble, there will be some play on the hub axle. Grab the wheel by both hands and try to move it sideways, not turning it. If you can feel any noticable play, the problem can be solved by replacing the bearing. It can be done by the local scooter shop or car garage.
However, since your scooter has a bad smell, it is possible that a bad bearing caused friction damage inside the motor.

Another possibility is that damage is caused by dust collection. This can be the case if you forgot to have the motor internally cleaned at every 5.000 km's.

zunzhine
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

Since this is my 3rd motor in 16k miles, I'm not too sold on replacing it with the same thing.

What happened to them? Same thing? When did you replace the last of them, and do you know what year it was
manufactured?

Jenn Rodriguez
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

Sorry to take so long to reply. Basically, the same thing happened to all the motors. The wheel got very hard to turn.

On the first motor, I tried cleaning it out and replacing the bearings. Did not help, and on inspection, the removed bearings were pretty good. That motor died at 3,000 miles, but it was a demo model scooter, so who knows what they put it through?

The second motor lasted 8,000 miles. I also tried cleaning it out and I changed one of the bearings, but again those moves didn't help.

The third motor went about 5,000 miles, I think, and went out more suddenly. I cleaned the motor out about 1000 miles before the end, but it really didn't seem very dirty. But I might have messed it up when I opened it up to clean it, I forgot the correct sequence of how to do it.

In my experience, opening up the motor for any reason (on these old motors), is more likely to cause trouble than help, but I know that others disagree with me.

Yellow 2002 EVT 4000e

marylandbob
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

You may have a loose object, possibly a magnet or a piece of epoxy, inside the motor. This loose object could get caught between moving parts, causing drag, similar to trying to ride with the brake on. As a result, motor current would become very high, and damage the windings and/or controller by overheating them. Does the motor smell bad? How does the controller smell? Was the motor too hot to comfortably touch and hold?-Bob

Robert M. Curry

Jenn Rodriguez
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

I opened up my motor today, that's definitely where the bad smell came from! Here's a picture of it (if I can get the upload to work). Is there any hope? Could I do something to make it work again?

Thanks!

(hmm, I don't see the image - how to I add an image?)

Jenn

Yellow 2002 EVT 4000e

Jenn Rodriguez
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

IMG_0213.jpg

this is the picture of it

Yellow 2002 EVT 4000e

marylandbob
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

We need a better photo!(Photos) I cannot see the details, as depth of field is shallow, focus notvery sharp. A veiw of the wire windings, which are apparently the blur in the background, is needed. See if you haveafreind withphotography skills, and/or try photographing it usingnatural outdoor light--Overcast/partly cloudy day is best. If using an "Automatic" camera, avoid getting so close that the focus fails to be sharp.---Check for loose particles/fragments stuck to the magnets-the magnets must be CLEAN, and securely assembled, with no loose pieces.--Bob Curry

Robert M. Curry

reikiman
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

To tie these together ... on another thread Jenn made a reply saying "that's what happened to my scooter". Earlier in the thread they discussed the signs of brushes wearing out as slowing down and bucking.

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/4310-parts-evt-4000e-scooter-brushes#comment-51737

zunzhine
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Re: EVT 4000 surging - bad smell - throttle no longer turns ...

It seems from Jenns photos either the negative or positive four brushes are worn out or
burnt out by arcing.

In the thread reikiman linked to Johnny J speaks about a customer with 30.000 miles
without problems with the motor brushes, yet Jenns posts indicate they don't last longer
than 6500 miles, so whats up?

I'm thinking of selling my EVT4000e and buy a XM5000Li next spring because of this, and
if the motors are this bad, it's a scandal.

Maybe there's something wrong with Jenns motor controller? Maybe some anti-arcing components
inside are gone?

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