When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps going into the battery or 3A minus battery impellers?

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AndY1
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When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps going into the battery or 3A minus battery impellers?

X-Vectrix posted some time ago, that the previous software version EC and TR charged at 1.5A because it needed the current to run the impellers without consuming the battery power.

If you remember previous EC charging, it looked like this (note the speedometer):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeB8bPthpJE&feature=related

Does that mean, that now, when CC charging is taking place, charging at 3A on the speedometer, that impellers consume 1.5A and only 1.5A goes into the pack?

mikemitbike
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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

Hi Andy,
good question! I think the spedometer shows the total output of the charger,
so some of the energy might be lost in the DC/DC converter for the running
the impellers. Only way is to open th battery, put a shunt in it and measure
the A´s running through the pack.

Greetings Mike

7circle
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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

If you can measure the charger current and it is 3.00A then you know somethings iffy.

The bike electrics are leeching power and if cooling fans are running then it can't be 3.00A going into the battery.

The charger qould need to supplying more than the 3.00A

Might save you pulling things apart to ceheck the current in the battery.

I still a wanabe Vetrix Owner so take the above with tiquella and lemon.

AndY1
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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

No such problem.

The thing is, in all stages, the speedometer needle shows the Amps the charger is charging the battery.

BUT, the 2 battery impellers are running off battery. They consume aprox. 1.5A, as X-Vectrix told us, that with earlier versions of Vectrix software, the TR and EC part of charging was charging with 1.5A so that the battery wouldn't be using any energy so that the impellers would consume that 1.5A the charger was providing.

The new softare runs TR and CO parts as cooling only, without any charging. The impellers are running purely on battery power, which by logic of previous sentence, consume aprox. 1.5A.

Does that mean, that when CC part of charging, with 3A, is taking place, that the battery is receiving only 1.5A, since the impellers consume the rest of the 3A the charger is providing?

Mik
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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

The current draw by the impellers is only one part of the picture.

The impellers draw probably about 0.4A; the standby power consumption of 0.5A for the charger is probably still present, but increased as the two charger cooling fans are running and the charger itself is running.

Overall, at "15km/h" shown on the speedo, there is just a little bit of net current flow into the battery, evidenced by the slowly increasing battery voltage (after the dip caused by reducing the charge intensity from "30km/h" to "15km/h).

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

AndY1
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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

So, is it possible then, that at CC stage, when speedometer is showing 30km/h (3A), that the battery isn't being charged at 3A, but at 3A (what the charger is pushing into the battery pack) minus the 1A for the two impellers, which are running off the battery power?

P.S.: Charger losses and other losses are not accounted into the 3Amps, the charger is providing to the battery. Those losses are made outside the charger, that's why my KillaWatt shows 40W consumption when Vectrix is plugged in and idling or cooling the battery off the battery power and that's why at CC stage, KillaWatt power consumption is aprox. 500W, when aprox. 3A - 450W is going into the battery.

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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

When the charger is plugged in, the power for the fans comes from the AC/DC converter in the charger. (The AC/DC and the DC/DC converters are in parallel, but the AC/DC wins out when the charger is plugged in) So during the EQ stage the full 3amps is going into the battery. When the charger turns off and the fans stay on (cool off mode), the power is supplied by the DC/DC converter, so the current comes from the battery. The reason for running the fans from the battery is that the charger has a minimum output which is more than the fans would need, so if the batteries are fully charged and the fans were powered by the charger, the minimum current would continue to flow into the batteries.
Hope this clarifies things.

AndY1
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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

Thank you!

This explains it all :-)

Mik
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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

Thank you for the explanations!

...
(The AC/DC and the DC/DC converters are in parallel, but the AC/DC wins out when the charger is plugged in)

Is that why the voltage in the glove box auxiliary supply socket is just a little less than 12V DC? So that the AC/DC converter can run at 12V to supply the DC current flow when the charger is plugged in?

I think this also means that powering the battery cooling impellers with an ABCool does not increase the battery charge current. It simply reduces the load on the chargers AC/DC converter.

So during the EQ stage the full 3amps is going into the battery.

And with older firmware, the full 1.5A in EC mode - right?

...
The reason for running the fans from the battery is that the charger has a minimum output which is more than the fans would need, so if the batteries are fully charged and the fans were powered by the charger, the minimum current would continue to flow into the batteries.

Do you know if the load on the chargers AC/DC converter is included in the "minimum output" ? I guess not.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

Glove box 12V...No the 12V in there is from the DC/DC on the motor controller. The small variation from 12V is probably the drop from the FET that controls it, altho it shouldnt be more than 10-15 mV.

EC mode...right, if the fans are on.

The AC/DC load is not part of the minimum since its the power section providing the battery current and the AC/DC providing the fan current.

antiscab
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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

is there a way to get to the 12v output from the ac/dc, for when the traction voltage is down below 80v and don't want to ( or don't have) a charger to connect to the traction battery?

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km

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Re: When Vectrix is charging at 3A in CC mode, is 3Amps ...

There isnt, but it wouldnt do anything for you if you could. There is a HW limitation on start-up of the power section. If the voltage is too low the power section tries to draw too much current and bad things happen. The AC/DC works fine at the low voltage and the processor prevents start-up.

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