ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

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7circle
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ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

I came across this scooter site in Australia.
Black Version
(I think the cat is not included)

It shows BMS fitted.

Batterys with BMS

I can't find any info on VIFVF with such info.

Can anyone confirm the effectivenes of this particular BMS on their Lithium Pack.

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

I saw this scooter last year at Canberra ev car show. It seemed like a very good bike. It's obvious that it is exactly the same as the American X-treme 5000li, but unlike the American version, this version has the all important BMS on every cell. Plus the Aussie version has 24 cells not 21. I am going to Melbourne in March or April to test drive one. ANZ has already given me approval to buy one. Eric is now installing 60Ah cells instead of 40Ah cells so range will be increased by 150%.

This bike would be perfect to get around Canberra. I am now tossing up between this 5000w or his new 8000w model. Both are speed limited to 106km/h. I would rather range over speed. Looks like a good $5,500 to me.

Phillip
Canberra

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

antiscab
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

I am now tossing up between this 5000w or his new 8000w model. Both are speed limited to 106km/h. I would rather range over speed. Looks like a good $5,500 to me.

Hi Phillip,

the difference between the 5000w and 8000w model is the controller.

you could replace the controller with a kelly one for whatever peak power you want.
doesn't help with top speed though (voltage limited).

With a 72v 400A kelly controller, it has acceleration equivalent to my suzuki across.

wish I could tell you more about that BMS, but I'm having enough trouble even identifying who the manufacturer is (the BMS, not the bike).

The bike I put the kelly 400A controller into is a customer bike, so I couldn't do any testing on the BMS.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Hi all,

Well I am happy to say I drove to Melbourne on the weekend to have a test drive of these scooters. As a "big" fella I was a little worried. Well...Eric the owner of eRider was very helpful and really knows his stuff. I test rode the following bikes and here are my thoughts...

Lightning Bolt 4000w: Fantastic low end torque. Grindy sound from motor is caused by chinese speed controller but not an issue. Took me up to 60Km/h NO problem! Bike is very light and handles great with excellent brakes too.

Lightning Bolt 5000w: Low end torque has been cut because of complaints about front wheel lifting off the ground, It has been set a little slow for my liking. Speed? Well, it was so much fun before I knew it I was hitting 75km/h!! Oops! Regen by just barly touching the brake handles was nice. Super strong brakes and suspension too.

Thunder Bolt 5000w: Low end torque has been cut because of complaints about front wheel lifting off the ground, It has been set a little slow for my liking. Speed? Well, same as the lightning bolt 5000w

Thunder Bolt 8000w: OMG Low end torque!! Eric said it has also been wound back but if you are not careful, it can shoot off easily! This bike had the NEW american Cevco (spelling?) speed controller. Same motor as other bikes but with this controller, the motor is LITERALLY DEAD SILENT! Unless you lift the wheel off the ground you can not hear a thing!! This thing shot up to 80 without any hesitation! When I opened the throttle at 40km/h there was a funny noise, I thought the controller was about to die...NO! It was the sound of the rear wheel starting to spin on the road!! That's right, it was starting a burnout at 40!!! Holy cow!! Regen on this bike is different. You start accelerating after 20% throttle and to coast you need to hold throttle at 20%, any less than 20% you start to regen energy which slows the bike. I found it a great way of slowing down for lights, sometimes I didn't even need to use the brakes. But I think its a little dangerous especially in wet conditions because it may cause you to slide out on a wet corner.

So in the end, I handed over my money and bought a Lightning Bolt 5000w because it has a shopping bag hook, already has ADR approval and he could install a digital display with trip meter. I chose the 5000w because 8000w would have much less range per charge. Whats the point of having a very fast bike if you run out of charge 30km from home?

Lighting Bolt 5000w-2.JPG

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

antiscab
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

I chose the 5000w because 8000w would have much less range per charge. Whats the point of having a very fast bike if you run out of charge 30km from home?

Hi Carlson,

good to hear you're enjoying your new bike,

just a clarification,

how much range you have is purely a function of how fast you are going (not how quickly you accelerate).

When I changed the original 5'000W controller on mine to a 25'000W one, there was no decrease in range, as I wasn't traveling any faster.

The controllers are fairly interchangeable anyway, so you haven't really missed out on anything.

have fun :)

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell
I chose the 5000w because 8000w would have much less range per charge. Whats the point of having a very fast bike if you run out of charge 30km from home?

how much range you have is purely a function of how fast you are going (not how quickly you accelerate).

When I changed the original 5'000W controller on mine to a 25'000W one, there was no decrease in range, as I wasn't traveling any faster.
Matt

Hi Matt,

Are you sure? Most of my streets here are 80Km/h so If I get an 8000w bike I would have thought it would use more power getting up to 80km/h and use more to keep me at 80km/h. If this is the case, I still have a few weeks to change my mind about which bike to get.

Here is the red Lightning Bolt I have ordered. This is only a 4000w model though on 60v.

Red Lightning-2.JPG

Phillip.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

antiscab
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Are you sure? Most of my streets here are 80Km/h so If I get an 8000w bike I would have thought it would use more power getting up to 80km/h and use more to keep me at 80km/h.

sure am :)

The only reason the 8000W bike would use more power than the 5000W bike is if the 5000W bike was not actually capable of 80kmh (which it should be).

the 8kW rating is merely the peak output, same as my old petrol bike had a peak output of 37kW.
that has very little to do with how much power is needed to go down the road (unless the power needed is more than your maximum)

for range, its not the peak output you should be interested in but rather how much power is needed to maintain speed.

for instance my Vectrix has a peak input power of 29kw.
power needed to hold 110kmh is 13kw
power needed to hold 80kmh is 4.5kw

btw, how much extra are they charging for the 8000W model?

The controller I used was this one:
http://kellycontroller.com/kbl72401b24-72v400abldc-controllerwith-regen-p-265.html

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

btw, how much extra are they charging for the 8000W model?

They are charging $499 extra. It's a pain because I saw the 8000w (150A) controller and it has different connectors for everything. Different throttle, e-brake, sensor cables, the lot. It also requires a different throttle. Quite fiddley but still do-able.

I blew up my Kelly controller a few weeks ago on my ebike trying to wire it up to a new hub motor, Green to gree, yellow to yellow, and blue to blue for the phase wires was wrong...poof! I found it to be a noisy controller too, but I did LOVE the fact you could program it. It was also slower than the cheap chinese controller I replaced it with?! Maybe I just had a one off problem but I don't know. After 2 years tinkering with e-bikes, I think I'm happy to do NOTHING with this e-scooter. Just plug and ride.

I will be installing a Large screen cycle-analyst though :)

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Well, the anxious wait has started!

I received an email yesterday saying the courier company has picked up the bike from Melbourne. It is due to arrive here in Canberra this Friday!

Fingers crossed!!

I have taken Friday off so I can get the bike and register it in time for the weekend.....hopefully.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Well my scooter arrived today, the 5000w

And my verdict is........it is RUBBISH!

It is dangerously SLOW! I have trouble even doing 35km/h up the SLIGHTEST hill!!

I am so bloody not impressed at all.

All my high hopes are now dashed.

My bloody 500w electric bike has better acceleration!

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

Mik
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Well my scooter arrived today, the 5000w

And my verdict is........it is RUBBISH!

It is dangerously SLOW! I have trouble even doing 35km/h up the SLIGHTEST hill!!

I am so bloody not impressed at all.

All my high hopes are now dashed.

My bloody 500w electric bike has better acceleration!

So why do you think it is so very different from when you did the test drive?

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

antiscab
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

It is dangerously SLOW! I have trouble even doing 35km/h up the SLIGHTEST hill!!

little red switch next to the throttle that says L/H.......make sure its switched to H.

if its on L, it limits throttle to 25%, which on the original controller limits both acceleration and top speed.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Hi all.

First of all....Yes the switch was set in the "H" range otherwise the bike was SLOWER than an ebike with a top speed around 20km/h

Well I must say that Eric at eRider in Melbourne is a great guy. After a full charge I was still lucky to keep 40km/h in a 100 zone which I declared DANGEROUS!!!

So I called Eric, on a Saturday and within 5 minutes he sent me details on how to strip the bike down. As an electrical engineer I feel comfortable with electronics. Plus I've built 2 ebikes over nearly 3 years.

I found that a loose bolt on a cell had blown apart one of the BMS cell chips. This had caused 2 cells to totally drain to 0v. So the pack after a full charge was 73.48v, but this dropped to 65v under load. Eric is sending 2 new cells on Monday express postage so hopefully I can get the pack up to 80v off charge. Every other cell was EXACTLY 3.34v.

So it seems the BMS works fine but there was a massive spark from this loose bolt on one cell, enough to melt the plastic cover and fry a circuit board. I'll see if I can upload a photo from my iPhone....nope. Ok, I'll get up and boot up the iMac.

I will update this thread with a few pics and my findings after I replace the 2 bad cells.

OK, So here I am on Day 1...pulling apart my brand new bike...not the way I wanted to spend the day...
IMG_3269.JPG

So Here is a photo of the BMS installed on the bike. It consists of a BMS box and each cell has these BMS cell monitor chips.
photo 1.jpg

This shows the loose bolt that must have created one hell of a spark! See the melted black plastic and it fried the circuit board too, it also WELDED the washer to the bolt.
photo 2.jpg

Here is a close up photo of one of the bad Thundersky cells.This particular bike uses 40Ah cells, but my next bike coming in a few weeks will have 60Ah cells.
photo 3.jpg

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

antiscab
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

I stand corrected :)

shame it wasn't so simple

Given your background you probably know this, but,

given the BMS doesn't survive full traction voltage applied across a single cell module, I suggest putting in an Anderson 175A connector for final connection (precharging wouldn't hurt either).

I had a similar problem with the BMS I used, the failure mode meant the shunt was always on.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Hi Matt,

Even with 2 cells down the voltage under load was still around 64v. Would this really have such a drastic affect on the performance? I noted the bike has what looks to be a Kelly controller marked as 72v 90A controller. I notice that erider also sell a 4000w scooter which is the same bike but with 60v of lithium and a kelly 60v controller. I would have thought that being down to 64v may have slowed me from 100km/h to maybe 80km/h, but I didn't think it would slow me right down to 40km/h!

Would this drastic reduction in speed be due to the 72v controller thinking the battery was dying?

Just before I stripped down the bike I did a little test. I sat on the bike with 2 feet on the ground and at full throttle I could nearly hold the bike still. My 1000w eBike can't be stopped like that.

Do you have a 5000w scooter, and if so can you stop it from moving forward just by having 2 feet on the ground?

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

Mik
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

I still do not understand why the one loose connection caused 2 dead cells. Can you explain that?

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

antiscab
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Even with 2 cells down the voltage under load was still around 64v. Would this really have such a drastic affect on the performance? I noted the bike has what looks to be a Kelly controller marked as 72v 90A controller. I notice that erider also sell a 4000w scooter which is the same bike but with 60v of lithium and a kelly 60v controller. I would have thought that being down to 64v may have slowed me from 100km/h to maybe 80km/h, but I didn't think it would slow me right down to 40km/h!

Would this drastic reduction in speed be due to the 72v controller thinking the battery was dying?

basically it goes like this:
All batteries sag when you draw current from them. batteries with dead cells sag more than ones with all good ones.

your motor controller has a minimum battery voltage programmed, so, if you battery is particularly flat, it will draw the most current that will result in a battery voltage above its minimum.

In your case the minimum voltage set was probably 64v.

since the dead cells cause high resistance, you probably couldn't draw much current (or power) before the voltage reached this minimum.

I hope the 90A rating of that controller is continuous, as thats how much you will be drawing to hold 100kmh.

Just before I stripped down the bike I did a little test. I sat on the bike with 2 feet on the ground and at full throttle I could nearly hold the bike still. My 1000w eBike can't be stopped like that.

Do you have a 5000w scooter, and if so can you stop it from moving forward just by having 2 feet on the ground?

Thats entirely a function of how powerful the controller is.

In your case, you may also have been limited by what the batteries could provide, given your top speed was 40kmh.

The "5000W" scooter I worked on came to me with a blown controller.
with the 72v 400A controller I replaced the dead controller with, no, there was no way I could restrain the bike manually.

btw - were the power connections for your controller internal?
if so, its probably not a kelly (all their power connections are to external tabs).

I still do not understand why the one loose connection caused 2 dead cells. Can you explain that?

If you get a condition where a cell is effectively removed from the circuit, but the cell module is not, full traction voltage appears across that cell module.

the shunts in most cell modules are switched by a FET.
this FET is usually only rated to 15 or 30V.

if you apply more than that voltage, it will conduct whether on or off, and will probably fail short circuit.
eventually the cell gets overdischarged, and on your next ride gets reversed.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Wow. What a drama this is becoming. My fiancee is more cranky than I am!

We got sent 2 new cells and were assured they were fully charged. After 2.5 hours putting them in and putting the bike back together, I went for a ride around the block. Holy cow!! The bike goes like a bat outta hell!! So much starting torque I nearly slipped off the seat!

I easily got up to 80km/h in the 80 zone. Then even got up to 95km/h (oops). Then back home theres a big hill, easily did 70 up it (70 zone). Then on the last stretch It dies all over again. Lucky to keep 40km/h. Slowly drove back into my street. Checked the 2 new cells and they were both down to 2.6v. Because there is no bms anymore the 72v charger thought the battery was charged.

Long story short, ive isolated the 2 new cells and charging them with my RC car charger on lithium ion setting. 3.6v per cell peak. I can only charge at 5A and the charger stops every 5500ma. So I'm now in the process of trying to get 80,000ma into these 2 new cells manually. I just have to re-start the charger every hour until midnight tonight. Then when Eric sends some new bms chips I'll put the bms back on.

Just as well this is a "loan" bike while I wait for my new one to come.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Update:

After 17 hours of charging the 2 cells with my RC car charger I connected the bike back together. Test drive was good. Still has trouble doing 80km/h in an 80 zone. After a 10 km test drive same thing, loss of power and then 3 blocks from home the controller shut down. I managed to ride the bike home in L range at 20km/h but still better than pushing.
Connected the standard 72v 10A charger now and waiting to see how that goes. 1 cell is down to 0v and another is at 1.8v. NEVER use these bikes without a BMS.

Attempting to put BMS back on the bike today after work. The dealer says I should try it again without the BMS but it's just going to stuff more cells. Not at my cost but it's my time that has to keep stripping the bike down.

I just feel confident that my new bike will have a nice new BMS system with an LCD readout of every cell.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

UPDATE:

Ok I stripped the bike down again...

Found 2 faulty BMS cell chips and replaced them. The BMS is now FULLY functional! I charged the battery over night and all the cells balanced to EXACTLY 3.33v Every single cell.

That's the good news.

Now when I accelerate too much or try and climb a hill over 40km/h the BMS instantly cuts power to the motor. You then need to roll off the throttle and throttle up again slower. This says to me that the BMS is now doing it's job of "protecting" the cells.

Now my next task is to identify which cell(s) are dropping in voltage enough to trigger the BMS. I suspect 2 maybe 3 cells. I have been sent 3 BRAND NEW cells. So hopefully there's no more than 3 bad cells. The acceleration is soooo smooth and the sound is lovely.....right until the BMS goes "CLUNK!!!" and kills the motor.

I am so close to having the bike up and running it's getting exciting. I have to go away for 2 weeks for work and the fiancee REALLY wants the bike going before I leave. I've now been working on fixing the bike for 1 week since it was delivered. I have also driven 450km in the car in that week, and it almost needs a re-fill...........This bike can't be fixed soon enough, I'm sick of petrol.

Here is the faulty cell chip. Nothing looks wrong with it but when it's connected, the BMS shuts the bike down.
photo 1.JPG

Here's the bike running the way it should! Just a little ride in the car park at home
photo 2.JPG

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

antiscab
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Sounds like you're enjoying the challenge :)

Found 2 faulty BMS cell chips and replaced them. The BMS is now FULLY functional! I charged the battery over night and all the cells balanced to EXACTLY 3.33v Every single cell.

3.33v is right in the flat region for a LiFePO4 cell.
basically they could be anywhere between 20% and 80% discharged.

put them on charge, if they all go above 3.4v, then they are all full charged (and mostly top balanced).
Since the BMS stops the bike from overdischarging any cell, top balancing is best.

I will be very interested in hearing what you think of a scooter with a 350A controller :)

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Hi Matt,

The cells were 3.33v in the morning about 5 minutes after I disconnected the charger. I thought this was pretty good. Hmm. Oh well.

Enjoying the challenge?!?! I'm kind of over it, I just wanna ride, plug in, ride, plug in and ride some more. I'm just happy I have the skills to fix it, unlike a petrol engine, I have no idea?

Anyway, Here's a little video I took on my iphone yesterday in our car park.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGxD1zO3zdo

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

UPDATE:
Today I tested each cell individually while riding. I found 2 bad cells. They were both dropping below 2v under load and as soon as one hit 1.8v the BMS shuts the power down. I replaced them with 2 brand new cells. I FINALLY have a working BMS and 24 working cells that don't have huge voltage drops.

My initial test ride was the same as the bike without a BMS. I was worried about frying another cell and saw the pack voltage dropped from 80.44v to 78.8v under full load. So with that I went on the SAME 10km test ride from the other day. I drove into town and came home. The other day I had trouble making it home and the bike died on me. THIS time however.......Wow!! All my expectations were blown away. Not only could I keep up with cars, I even passed a few (2 lane traffic). The very big hill on the way home is what killed the battery yesterday, struggling to keep 25km/h, the scooter had no problems flying up at 70km/h (70 zone)

Needless to say I easily made it home again. Checked battery voltage and it's still 79.8v

I even got the scooter up to 100km/h, then I noticed the needle keeps moving past the 100 dial on the speedo. That was pretty hair raising though.

It's so good to see that I havent wasted my money on a bike that was terribly under-powered. I much prefer this scooter to the 50cc scooter I was looking at for the same price

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

CHL lithium battery
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Congratulation !

Is it 100km/h on GPS speed or odometer speed ?

Another easy way to find out bad cell is to check the impedance on it.

Normally bad cell will increase impedance and drop voltage very quick.

JasonTaylor
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

It's so good to see that I havent wasted my money on a bike that was terribly under-powered. I much prefer this scooter to the 50cc scooter I was looking at for the same price

Just curious, what 50cc scooter was the same price? Here http://www.neoscooters.com/ I see 50cc gas scooters about $500-$1000 and the cheapest lithium (3500i) at $4000 which should be less than a 5000 watt model, no? What prices were you seeing/getting again? Thanks.

Jason

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Ah thanks CHL. I didn't check the impedance of the cells. Maybe I should have done that. Ah well, live and learn.

Well I'm happy to say after 15km of riding I was able to stay side by side (2 lane traffic) with my friend in an 80 zone. I've checked all the cells this morning and every single cell is sitting on 3.34v. The charger was flashing 90% for a long time last night showing it was balancing the cells. All in all I'm pretty impressed with the BMS on this bike. Now that I've tasted 72v scooter, I wonder what 96v would be like? Hmmmm....

Oh. On another subject, does anyone know how to replace the front blinker bulb without pulling the entire bike apart?

Oh with the 50cc scooter I was looking at were at motorcycle shops here in Canberra. They started around $4,000 and a 125cc to do 100km/h was about $5000. I was cleaning the house one day and came across some pamphlets from the Canberra electric car festival when I found the eRider one. Electric scooter $5000! They only made 4000w then. So I went on the website and bang! A 5000w model. That's how it all started.

Even with all the hassles I've had, I'd still rather an electric bike. I hate petrol as a fuel, and I don't have the confidence pulling one of those apart.

Electric is easy.

Batteries -> Controller -> Motor

Stay tuned for updates and maybe some videos :-)

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

antiscab
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Last seen: 2 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

I much prefer this scooter to the 50cc scooter I was looking at for the same price

I hear that :)

out of curiosity, do have a motorbike licence?
have you been on a 250cc bike before?

if you haven't, the 350A controller will be like stepping up from a skate board to a car :D
as long as the low voltage limit on that controller is still 64v, it means you will have ~18kw at the wheel.

enough power to split safely.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell
I much prefer this scooter to the 50cc scooter I was looking at for the same price

I hear that :)

out of curiosity, do have a motorbike licence?
have you been on a 250cc bike before?

if you haven't, the 350A controller will be like stepping up from a skate board to a car :D
as long as the low voltage limit on that controller is still 64v, it means you will have ~18kw at the wheel.

enough power to split safely.

Matt

Hi Matt,

Yes in Australia you do need a motorcycle licence to ride these scooters.

From a Skateboard to a CAR!!!! Seriously! That big of a jump?! I can't imagine how the scooter can be much quicker? I usually use 100% throttle to get up to my speed of say 80km/h and then go back to maybe 80% throttle to keep the speed. All I'm hoping with the 350A controller is that I only need to use maybe 50-70% throttle to get up to speed safely, that way I have an extra 30-50% throttle for situations where you need it.

I grew up in the country so i've ridden dirt bikes, mainly 125cc but I have ridden a 250cc once and it was quick. My Uncle has a Yamaha XJR-1300 and I remember me being on the back when he accelerated from 0 to OVER 100km/h in no time and all in 1st or 2nd gear! I wonder if that's what a 350A controller is like?

I can't wait to feel the scooter with the 350A controller.

We have been riding the bike around Canberra today everywhere and it went flat at 39km. Luckily I was only 200m from a friends house. So we popped in, had a cuppa and charged it for an hour and went home again. But even straight off the charge the BMS still (very intermittenly) cuts the power?? So there maybe one more cell playing up. We rode nearly 70km all up today with only 2 or 3 temporary power cuts. I just came back from a friend's place in -3c and the power cut on me twice. But I could still get up to 80km/h (80 zone) no problem at all.

If anyone in considering a 50cc or 125cc petrol scooter, why wouldn't you consider electric? Do we "really" need 400km range? It's so much easier just "filling up" at home while I sleep. I'm hoping the new bike with 60Ah cells will have a range of 90km.

Hey matt, you have a 5000w scooter. How big are your lifepo4 cells and how much do you usually get out of a charge? I didn't get any warning today, I was going along at 70km/h for 2km, then it dropped to 65km/h for 100m then "Clunk" im flat! The battery guage was still reading FULL while I'm pushing the bike, I think it is for a 60v pack. I'm not sure.

Anyway, I have made a very short video today. My fiance had some things to do so I filmed her going off. Up one of the steepest hills in Canberra easily getting up to 70km/h (70 zone). The steep part is after the film stops. Oh man I LOVE the sound of electric vehicles!! Zinnnnnnnng.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKxWYyNbVEs

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

antiscab
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Last seen: 2 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Yes in Australia you do need a motorcycle licence to ride these scooters.

From a Skateboard to a CAR!!!! Seriously! That big of a jump?! I can't imagine how the scooter can be much quicker? I usually use 100% throttle to get up to my speed of say 80km/h and then go back to maybe 80% throttle to keep the speed. All I'm hoping with the 350A controller is that I only need to use maybe 50-70% throttle to get up to speed safely, that way I have an extra 30-50% throttle for situations where you need it.

I grew up in the country so i've ridden dirt bikes, mainly 125cc but I have ridden a 250cc once and it was quick. My Uncle has a Yamaha XJR-1300 and I remember me being on the back when he accelerated from 0 to OVER 100km/h in no time and all in 1st or 2nd gear! I wonder if that's what a 350A controller is like?

the looking at 50cc scooters part made me think you didn't have one, but you do so thats cool.

maybe I was exagerating a little :)

Theres no change in top speed (unless you do some seriously steep hills), but the acceleration up to around 80kmh is *way* better.

it makes it equivalent to a 250 (till you hit 80kmh) in terms of acceleration.
basically you can out accelerate most cars while splitting (depends whether you do peak hour often)

its still no litre bike (I suggest looking at a Roehr for that kinda performance)
most litre bikes can do 100 in first, can't use full throttle in first or it will through you off, and do 0-100 in 3.5sec and 100-200 in 4 sec.

But even straight off the charge the BMS still (very intermittenly) cuts the power?? So there maybe one more cell playing up. We rode nearly 70km all up today with only 2 or 3 temporary power cuts. I just came back from a friend's place in -3c and the power cut on me twice. But I could still get up to 80km/h (80 zone) no problem at all.

*snip*

Hey matt, you have a 5000w scooter. How big are your lifepo4 cells and how much do you usually get out of a charge? I didn't get any warning today, I was going along at 70km/h for 2km, then it dropped to 65km/h for 100m then "Clunk" im flat! The battery guage was still reading FULL while I'm pushing the bike, I think it is for a 60v pack. I'm not sure.

low temperatures reduce your max power, however, you should still be able to do 80kmh no problems.
you lose some range when its cold as the last bit of capacity is at to low a power.

basically the further into the discharge you are, the lower your max power is.

If you have just enough charge to maintain 70kmh on the flat, and you encounter a hill, either:
you lose speed (pack voltage reaching minimum voltage), or the controller cuts out (a single cell low voltage).

in your case both happened.
with a battery where every cell goes flat at the same time (bottom balanced) you will just keep losing speed.

The 5000W scooter I have used isn't actually mine, its a customers.
It has 24 x 60Ah cells.
I can't tell you how much range it has, as the owner hasn't pushed it to its limits (range anxiety).

It came to me with a burnt out 90A controller, which I replaced with a 400A controller
I found the acceleration to be good, the customer raved about it for ages

The fuel guage is just a scaled voltmeter, its rather useless on a LiFePO4 powered bike.
I highly recommend using a cycle analyst: www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain

counting Ah is the best way to know how much charge you have left in my opinion
how much range you get can be different on every charge due to changing road conditions (speed, wind, rain, etc).
My Vectrix with 44 x 60Ah cells gets anywhere between 70km and 120km to a charge, which is why I don't rely on a odometer to work out how much further I can go.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

pcarlson1979
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Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Well after a week of fixing the "LOAN" bike, I got 1 day use out of it.

Today ANOTHER cell died. Discharging to 1.8v under load.

I replaced it with the very last new cell.

After a full charge I got 1.8km and then the bike starts cutting out all over again. I had to walk the bike home. Either the BMS in these scooters is playing up or the thundersky cells are playing up or a combination of both.

It wasn't one of the new cells, it was one of the original ones.

The dealer tells me of all these good stories where people just ride their bikes and charge them. I'm just starting to think that the technology just isn't ready. The BMS on BOTH my eBikes is perfect. It balances the cells and protects them. It seems the bms on this bike is not doing its job. Maybe it's faulty, or I'm just lucky to have all these problems :-)

Is there anyone out there with one of these scooters that has any good stories?

Even with all these problems I'm having, the dealer is still very helpful and happy to help me fix it. I just want it fixed so we can use it reliably every day because it's just so fun to ride.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
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Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERIDER Scooter 5000W Lithium with BMS on each cell

Hi Matt,

Yes I have a cycle analyst. I'm just waiting on the high current shunt to arrive. Then I'll be able to see what the hell is going on with the pack voltage. Maybe I just need 24 new cells?

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

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