potentiometer as cruise control

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Kenny1
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potentiometer as cruise control

Hello,
I'm currently using a potentiometer because throttle is broken. Once I get a new throttle Id like to keep potentiometer as a cruise control.

How would I go about wiring up the two with a switch in between so I can switch from one to the other?

My throttle wires to controller are red, black, green and I'm an electronics idiot so please be very clear as to what wires where.

Thank you,
Kenny

reikiman
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

It won't work to connect both at the same time. Putting resistors in parallel decreases the resistance - that's electronics 101. Hence you're correct you'll have to switch them.

A simple switch would be fine. What you'll look for is what's called "dual pole dual throw". It will have six terminals. Two you can think of as the center terminals and the switch alternatively connects the center terminals with the four other terminals. This could also be done with a "single pole dual throw" switch but I think the dual pole switch is cleaner for this purpose. A "dual throw" switch alternatively connects an input (the center terminal) with one of two outputs. This is exactly what you're talking about - alternatively connecting the throttle connector on the controller two one of two throttles.

You can see it in action if you connect your multimeter while in the ohms (resistance) measuring mode and connect to the various terminals while operating the switch.

The throttle connector on the controller should have two wires ... and presumably you already have the potentiometer connected to those two wires? The potentiometer though probably has three terminals, two for each end of the potentiometer and the other for the wiper. The throttle will also have three terminals for the same reason.

The thing to do will be to connect the two center terminals of the switch to the throttle inputs on the controller. Then for the potentiometer connect both of its wires to one side of the switch. For the new throttle connect both of its wires to the other side of the switch.

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

Kenny1
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Hi Reikiman,
Thank you for your help. So get one of these?

http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032278&allCount=78&fbc=1&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FDPDT&fbn=Type%2FDPDT&filt...

Does the amp and volt rating matter? If so what would be best?

"The thing to do will be to connect the two center terminals of the switch to the throttle inputs on the controller. Then for the potentiometer connect both of its wires to one side of the switch. For the new throttle connect both of its wires to the other side of the switch."

I'm still a little confused. It seems these switches have 6 terminals on them. I have 3 wires for throttle from the controller. Red (I'm assuming positive), Black (assuming negative)and Green (think it's wiper). I'm confused when you say "both" potentiometer wires and "both" throttle wires because the throttle and potentiometer each use 3 wires. The throttle has 3 wires, the potentiometer has 3 wires and the controller has 3 wires all red/ black/ green. Thats 9 wires to connect to 6 terminals on the switch. Do I do something like connect all 3 black grounds togother and then connect the rest of the 6 reds and greens to the switch? like controller red and green to each side of middle terminals on switch then red and greens from throttle and pot meter to colors to same sides of switch, one at top and other at bottom?

I'm sorry I'm not very good at electronics.

reikiman
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Yeah those are the kinds of switches. Think about whether the switch is weather-safe, though, if appropriate for your vehicle.

The three wires on the potentiometer/throttle is something I skipped over. However usually controllers have only two connectors for the throttle. I made an assumption this was the case, and that you already had an idea of which two wires on the potentiometer would correctly drive the controller.

You'll need to explore this a bit using the resistance setting on a multimeter to see what the three wires on your throttle are actually doing. e.g. does the throttle have a battery gauge? Maybe only two of the wires on the throttle read out resistance and the third does something else.

Who made the controller?

There are three pole dual throw switches ... they would handle switching three wires back and forth in the same way I mentioned.

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

Kenny1
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Hi,
I forgot to mention this is a brushless hall effect motor/ controller/ throttle.
I there are 3 wires and not for battery level. Red/ Green/ Black. I understand red is 5 volt power, black is ground and green is wiper. 5k pot meter is also using all three. red to one side, black to other and green is in the middle (wiper). I think the green wire picks up resistance from throttle/ pot meter from 0-5 volts and thats how hall effect controller adjust speed. If thats the case cant I wire all 3 black grounds togother and connect reds and greens to switch as mentioned above?

Does amp/ volt rating matter? throttle uses 5 volts.

Yes I plan to get a water proof project box to put potmeter and switch in.

Kenny1
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Thanks to Reikiman's help I think I figured this out. throttle and potmeter use 3 wires comming from controller. Red 5 volt power, black ground and green wiper(senses difference of 0-5 volts that controller reads and determines the speed.)

Here is a pic from wikipedia of a DPDT switch ...

Unless someone thinks this wont work I dont see why I cant wire all 3 black ground wires togother. throttle, potmeter and controller. Then wire red and green controller wires to be selected by switch to red and green of either throttle or potmeter. Then by a flick of switch I either have throttle or cruise control (potmeter).

Im not worried about stopping durring cruise control because my brake levers have motor cut offs. Using potmeter now, I can set speed, brake ( cut off motor ) release brake and right back to where potmeter was set for speed.

This should work right?

If this works, it will be a cheap easy cruise control to any electric vehicle. I dont know about rest of you but these throttles are cheap junk and I busted 3 in a month. last time I was 16 miles from home. Be nice to flick a switch and have a cruise control to get you home. Cruise control will come in usefull on sidewalks and when I'm riding parks with girlfriend on reg bike who does about 12mph.

reikiman
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Should work - as my dungeon master used to say, try it and find out ;-)

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

strawhistle
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Hay Kenny , good job! I think you have it worked out! Let us know how your doing ,maybe some pics ? LaTeR

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

Kenny1
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

sure.
Im going to radio shack to get switch and project box today. Still waiting on new throttle ( maybe tommorow )but this should work.

strawhistle
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

when you get it all put together remember to lift the drive wheel off the ground , cause If, the throttle is wired backwards, the wheel will immediately want to go fast at no throttle !! LaTeR

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

Kenny1
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

thank you. I will.
Got the DPDT switch and small project box to water proof it all. Radio shack guy said it would work too and told me how to wire switch as a device to device switch. I cant wait for throttle to come in, hopefully tomorrow. I think this gonna work and we can all build cruise controllers/ back up to broken throttles buy flick of switch for about 13 bucks!

I will update and share when I wire it.

Dauntless
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Let's see. I don't know the laws where you are, but since they're largely the same everywhere, I assume this is an illegal modification you've made and are further extending your culpability to. And since you are deliberately overriding the legally required releasing throttle, if there is ever an accident you'll be assumed to be at fault. If the accident should result in someones death, the charge is not manslaughter but in fact murder, as you made the modification with the deliberate intent to override what is considered a safety feature in the throttle that ensures the engine speed falls away when the throttle is released. In California I suppose they would let you plea bargain down to voluntary manslaughter, just 8 years of state prison instead of 25, but you'd have a felony conviction the rest of your life.

You are NOT putting a cruise control on the scooter, a cruise control deactivates the moment the brake is touched. On the one hand, I'd say if you bought that switch already, hit it with a hammer and make sure it never finds its way onto your bike. On the other, if you want to take a walk on the wild side. . .I mean, what are the chances you might get in some accident, right?

WHo dares, WINS!!!!

Kenny1
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Ok, without being sarcastic.

1. this is the "Custom electric bicycle builds (DIY)forum" This is not a scooter.
2. "these throttles are cheap junk and I busted 3 in a month. last time I was 16 miles from home. Be nice to flick a switch and have a cruise control to get you home". When they break, and they do often, they are stuck at 1/2 power making them unsafe to ride.
3. you said "And since you are deliberately overriding the legally required releasing throttle", read above, when they fail they are dangerious and get stuck at 1/2 throttle. Be nice to have a 2nd option to control your speed.
4. you said "You are NOT putting a cruise control on the scooter, a cruise control deactivates the moment the brake is touched." Exactly correct. Read above "Im not worried about stopping durring cruise control because my brake levers have motor cut offs. Using potmeter now, I can set speed, brake ( cut off motor ) release brake and right back to where potmeter was set for speed." I have brakes that are wired seperatly to the controller and cut power to motor when either is touched. So by your own defination it would be a cruise control that deactivates the moment the brake is touched.

Now he does make a good point that I was going to mention later when i wired it.
DO NOT do this unless you have brake cut offs that kill power to motor when your brakes are touched!!! I have them on both brakes. It would be dangerious as he pointed out. These brake cut offs can be bought online very cheap and I would not do this with out them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELECTRIC-SCOOTER-BIKE-BRAKE-LEVER-CHINA-MINI-MOPED-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ380257272617QQptZMotor...

Then again I have read online where throttles stuck at full speed when wet and allmost killed one rider. there is tons of info on these throttles being made very cheap and break often being stuck at speed. Even without brake cut offs ( which I dont recomend ) at least a rider stuck at full speed could hit a switch and control speed to stop and be able to control speed safely to atleast get home without being stuck at full throttle.

robert93
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

ok, since technicality has crept in......
this "alternative fixed-yet variable throttle" (no spring-return-to-idle) is not a cruise control that would be able to be employed to maintain the exact speed of the bike when engaged. It is exactly as described, an alternative for emergency use. The laws mandate all electric assisted bicycles to have the brake lever motor interrupts. The throttle has nothing to do with these interrupts, that is a function of the controller and brake levers. If you are homebuilding , please dont bypass or omit these, or your build shouldnt be on the road at all. Also keep in mind, when you build, check local and state laws for nit-picky stuff that may not be applied to non assisted bicycles, or stuff that you might have forgotten was a law for required bicycle parts. If they say the throttle has to be handgrip mounted, that may make mounting placement interesting.

Kenny1
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

It Works!!
Sry about bad drawing but here is how to wire it.

wire.JPG

This is what it looks like.

DSCF2980.JPG

DSCF2979.JPG

And this is my bike.

DSCF2973.JPG

I see some people dont agree this is a good idea but I like it. It does work as either a cruise control or throttle. Next time a throttle brakes I still have cruise to control my speed. If I want to set a certain speed I can and it says there. Either way motor cut offs on my brakes stop motor. I allready had the brakes, the rest cost about 12 bucks at radio shack. Need a small project box, DPDT switch and 5K Linear potentiometer. If you dont allready have cut off brakes get some now!

!!!!! DO NOT DO THIS WITH OUT MOTOR CUT OFF BRAKES!!!!!

Kenny1
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Back to Dauntless's post...

Motorized bicycle/moped, tricycle, quadricycle and skateboard laws in California.

V C Section 21227 Motorized Scooters Operation Requirements
Motorized Scooters: Operation Requirements

21227. (a) A motorized scooter shall comply with one of the following:

(1) Operate in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or ceases to function when the brakes are applied.

(2) Operate in a manner so that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when released, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to function.

(b) It is unlawful for a person to operate a motorized scooter that does not meet one of the requirements of subdivision (a).
Added Sec. 5, Ch. 722, Stats. 1999. Effective January 1, 2000.

My bike and cruise control comply with California VC section 21227 (a)(1) My bike will cease to function when the brakes are applied.

No jail time for me :)

robert93
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Hey, its a good clean mount too, well done :-)

Kenny1
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Thank you Robert.
I totally agree with your above post too. Anyone not using brakes that cut the motor off, spend the 15 bucks, be safe and comply with the law. Your also right, the "cruise control" does not hold a set speed. It holds a set power setting but here in florida where everywhere is flat it works the same.

Thank you again Reikiman.
I couldnt have done it with out you and your advice and showing me what kind of switch to use.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Dauntless.

andcon84
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

I have a WE lighted thumb throttle and I'm trying to figure it out. It has four wires, white black red and brown, does this device not work as a pot? I cant seem to measure a change in resistance between any of the two wires as the throttle it manipulated. Any advice?

sonda_gee
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

Hello Kenny,

Can you please upload the photos back? cannot see the photos anymore? and if possible a small wiring sketch as well. many thanks.

Maxfoot
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Re: potentiometer as cruise control

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