XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

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rocketj
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XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

Hi,
I'm new at this so please bear with me. I've been reading a lot about the X-Treme XB-600 and XB-700Li because I'm interested in purchasing an electric bicycle but I can't decide which one to buy. I live on an island in Florida 2 by 4 miles in size, one small hill and year-round decent weather. My commute to work plus errands would never be more than 15mi per day. All speed limits are 35mph or less. I'm 5'10" and I weigh 180 lbs. and would want to carry about 10lbs. of tools plus groceries. On occasion I would also want to carry a passenger (girlfriend 125lbs.) to the beaches and places around town without too much trouble. Not ready to contemplate any engine modifications at this time but perhaps in the future. I understand the XB-700Li has more efficient Lithium batteries and longer range plus a larger wattage motor. Are those the only advantages? Can someone familiar with these two bikes suggest which one I might be more satisfied with considering my circumstances? Would I be just as happy with the 600 instead of paying more for the 700? Thanks very much. RocketJ

robert93
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

I'm sure this thread is going to be a lively one, and I'm sure other brands might even be mentioned. My recommendation is to please buy one in person, or travel to see first hand, and hopefully try out each of these models. Pictures and videos online dont tell you about fit and finish of a product. There are many "flame pages" dedicated to the X-treme brand overall.
For a while one big issue was the battery packs on the 700, some sort of incompatibility, or low voltage cutoff when you gunned it at a traffic light, causing you to have to switch the whole thing off and back on again,, or the "mystery alarm" that would drain the battery to non-recoverable. I personally like the looks of the 700 better, but thats just me.
Make sure the pedals work, and keep them installed at all times, others have had trouble in Florida with officers trying to "reclassify" these e-bikes as mopeds or other "license required" vehicles. If you havent already do as much web-searching as you can on both models, including here on the forum-lots of great advice, mods, troubleshooting.

dp
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

"I live on an island in Florida 2 by 4 miles in size, one small hill and year-round decent weather. My commute to work plus errands would never be more than 15mi per day. All speed limits are 35mph or less."

With that short commute, save $600 and get the XB 60O. Mod it when you feel you need more speed.

rocketj
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

Hi again and thanks to Robert93 and dp! Just after I posted I read further in the forums and found more info.(Duh!) Fortunately I don't live in Port St. Lucie. I've seen a few other e-scooters around the island I live on including an old XB-700 so the law enforcement must be tolerant. There was mention that the latest version/shipment newly available to X-Treme was "new and improved" concerning the 700Li (and 600?)and would be "worth the wait". Maybe I read that wrong. Does that mean some of the battery issues might be fixed? I really have no way to get to a dealer to try them out but that's a good idea. A lot of the reviews I've found are a little outdated. Would the 600 be enough to carry me and my occasional girlfriend 4-8 miles round trip? I'd like to save the $600 but don't want to be disappointed. Thanks again for all the help. I'm still a little confused. I'll keep up my research and any more opinions, alternate brands or suggestions are truly appreciated.

Rocketj

dp
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

"Would the 600 be enough to carry me and my occasional girlfriend 4-8 miles round trip?"

Yes, but it will accelrate more slowly with extra person...so will the 700.

The best advice I can give you is to just do it. The 600 is well understood, cheap and really easy to mod. The 60 volt mod is easy.

A few weeks after getting one you will probably ask yourself, "why didn't I do this years ago?"

rocketj
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

Thanks again dp! I'm starting to like the idea of the 600 more and more and will probably pull the trigger on it in the next couple of weeks. I live in a place where it would be really easy to sell if for some reason I'm not happy with it. I also like the idea of the 60 volt mod and will read up on that I'm sure. Who knows, maybe I'll become an X-Treme dealer here in my tiny island community. Stranger things have happened. Looking forward to something new. Thanks, Rocketj

Rocketj

solutionsgem
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

Hello, We are proud owners and dealers of the 700Li scooters. Our opinion might not count because we recommend and sell this scooters to the public.
We purchased our 700Li scooter on August 2008. We have about 2000 miles on the bicycle odometer we installed on our bike. The 700Li speedometer is not accurate and it does not have an odometer. We liked the scooter so much that we became dealers in our area. I am 180 lbs, 5'11" guy. I ride with my wife (150lbs) all the time. Yes the bike accelerates more slowly with the extra weight but still gets to 21 MPH. The longest we have ridden the bike without charging is 30 miles. We do not know how much further the bike can go.
There is enough room in the bike storage for three grocery bags. We also place two five gallon plastic bottle water on the floor board when we go shopping.

The XB-600 is a great bike as well. It is a little smaller but it will do the job. The main difference is the battery. The new lithum batteries are supposed to last a lot longer with proper maintenance. I am not going to quote manufacturers clams because I have no idea the battery will last that long. We know people that has bought he XB-600 and after the Lead Acid batteries are spent, they have upgraded the batteries for LiPo4. That is another option. Again it is about looks and initial cost.

What we can say is that previous generation battery is still doing well after 2000 miles. The new battery chemistry, LiPo4 should be much better. We asked around and this is the compamy that makes the new battery for the 700Li:

http://www.fe123battery.com/English/

It is true about the previous generation battery having problems. Our bike and two other customers bikes were affected by the cut off issue. We sold about forty of these bikes of the previous generation. The good thing is that the distributor replace the batteries free of charge under warranty. We are not trying to defend the distributor, these have been our experiences, that is why we are still doing business with them. We only offer a few of their products. We like lithium power.

Yes the alarm system draws current even when the bike is turned off. We do recommend disconnecting the battery or installing a battery switch if the bike will not be in use for several days. We do not know if that issue has been corrected with the new model.

Both bikes can be upgraded and modified. There are several threads about both bikes upgrades and modification. We like the 700Li better because of storage compartments and the fact that the battery is lighter do not have to be charged right after each use to improve longevity.

You will be happy with any electric bike you choose. The idea of not burning any fuel and the silence of the ride is awesome. You can even make your own solar electric generator to charge the battery. You can view our generator here:

http://visforvoltage.org/blog/solutionsgem

That is Energy independence!

Our humble opinion.

Energy Independence For A Bright Future.

www.solutionsgem.com

richardb
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

On occasion I would also want to carry a passenger (girlfriend 125lbs.) to the beaches and places around town without too much trouble.

You would be well advised to check the laws in Florida about carrying a passenger. Also find out the maximum power allowed. In Michigan, both these bikes are classified as MoPeds, (750 watts or less) and Michigan law does not allow a second person on a MoPed. (On the other hand, Michigan law does not require pedals on a MoPed, and top speed is limited to 30MPH, not 20... go figure.) You can generally find all the motor vehicle laws for your state online at your states official website. When you do, print out all the sections that pertain to your vehicle.
And by the way, in the long run, you will not save money buying the XB-600. The lithium batteries should last the life of the bike, while you will not get more than 5000 miles out of the Lead-Acid batteries, even with very good care.

Dickey_b
Waste Not, Want Not

rocketj
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

Thank you Richardb. I read up on the Florida law through links from the forums on this site and there was no mention of passengers on electric bikes. However, I will contact the local Florida DMV before taking any risks. As far as my XB-600 vs. XB-700Li quandary, it looks like the main difference is the battery life and ease of maintenance of the lithium batteries, the amount of storage space on the bike and the maximum distance between charging. Do you know, as mentioned by Solutionsgem above, if the new LiP04 batteries resolve any of the battery issues with the 700 or is it too soon to know? Is that the only improvement over the previous models? It sounds like the extra $600 is worth the advantages of the lithium batteries. Are there any structural advantages of the XB-700 over the XB-600? I'll keep reading and I appreciate all the input.

Rocketj

solutionsgem
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

Here is some information we found about the scooter laws in Florida:

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_Police/about_us/Investigations_and_Support/Special_Support_Division/Traffic_Unit/motorcycles_and_mo...

We keep a copy of this document in our scooter just in case we are stopped:

http://www.x-tremescooters.com/techdocs/adobe/e-bicycle-fed-regulation.pdf

So far no cop has stopped us for anything.

Checking your local laws is good advice.

Energy Independence For A Bright Future.

www.solutionsgem.com

robert93
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

just a quick note on the federal law, that just states a minimum standard, unfortunately it also allows for stricter regulation by the individual states. Still good to have a copy though.

solutionsgem
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

Hi, We just posted a new video on youtube about a 5'11" 180lbs Guy and a 150Lbs Lady ridding the 700Li. One of our customers in NY asked us about a passenger video. As you might remember we own and sell the 700Li and the 600 to the public. The 700Li and 600 are similar in size. The 700Li is just a bit bigger.

We hope the video helps.

Energy Independence For A Bright Future.

www.solutionsgem.com

rocketj
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Re: XB-600 vs. XB-700Li

Thank you solutionsgem! I'll give it a look. Rod Jenkins at www.electricvehiclemall.com wrote me with this info which I will cut and paste. Thanks again!

"Yes, the XB-600 has been upgraded to the XB-610. It looks the same as the XB-600 but is has better batteries, an upgraded controller, nicer wheels, and a much improved charget that is UL (Underwriters Laboratories) certified. It is also now shipped in a steel framed carton (strapped as normal to a wooden pallet) with the forks anchored to the steel frame to eliminate movement and shipping damage.

From test riding both the new XB-610 and XB-700Li, I find the acceleration and speed to be the same. Top speed is the same. And, at 20 mph, the windshield does not make that much difference. The battery pack for each stores close to the same amount of energy.

They both are rated by the manufacturer at 30 to 35 miles per charge. That rating is based on a 170 lb driver on level ground, no stop and go, and 2/3rds throttle. Of course, most everyone drives them at full throttle. Range depends on weight, speed, terrain and how much stop and go. Some customers have reported over 35 miles on level ground at full speed, and 30 miles even with stop and go, hills, but I wouldn’t count on that.

Both the XB-600 and XB-700Li are confortable for a full sized adult and can ride two. But the XB-700Li looks and is slightly larger and, maybe because of the wider seat and windshield, feels slightly more comfy. However, what you are really paying for with the XB-700Li, in addition to the different look, is the Lithium Ion battery pack and Lithium Ion battery charger.

The Lithium Ion battery pack should theoretically last about three times the length of the battery pack on the XB-600. But it will be a few years before we know for sure. The battery pack on the XB-600 in the heat of Florida should last about 2 years. In a colder climate, as long as 3 years. But this depends on how often the bike is used, how deep the discharge is each time, and how well the batteries are maintained (recharged to 100% charge after each use). Note: Lithium Ion batteries are also slower to discharge while sitting inactive so they are easier to store for long periods.

The replacement cost for the XB-700Li Lithium Ion battery pack is $600. The replacment cost for the XB-600 battery pack is roughly $250."

Rocketj

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