Sad record: 50*C

24 posts / 0 new
Last post
R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Sad record: 50*C

This is one of the nights I'm feeling really sad. I was heading for home at 70-80km/h, and just after surpassing my safe level (11/17 bars), the voltage dropped faster than ever.I reached home 3 km after , with empty gauge, battery flashing, and... the hottest temperature ever seen on the display. My god, the battery is burned. I'm loosing her....
The traffic forced me to sustain 70 km/h during those last meters... Bad luck!

I was absolutely puzzled: Initially the temperature was 48*C
SNC00284.jpg
And increassed to my horror to 50*C
SNC00286.jpg
SNC00287.jpg
I've immediately plugged the bike in with a charging delay of 8 hours. Who knows if a cell is already burned to 0.00 volts...
Enjoy your vectrix as long as you can...

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

This morning I unplugged the bike at mid charge. I tested the bike during 2 km, and the voltage seems stable. We'll see after 20 km how is it doing.

israndy
israndy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 16 min ago
Joined: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 08:53
Points: 312
Re: Sad record: 50*C

I have often seen 48C on my V, it takes a licking and keeps on kicking. I have been thinking about getting one of Mik's fan kits for the bike, or at least taking it in to see if the fans are working correctly, but I have often seen that temp, is it really that bad? We had a heat wave this week and the Bathot, or BatHot, possibly BATHot light came on and the temp was only 50C, didn't seem like a big deal, 2 degrees hotter. I hope now that the heat wave is gone the next ride will be back to normal.

-Randy

______________________
I also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev

moccasin
moccasin's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 4 months ago
Joined: Friday, July 11, 2008 - 19:05
Points: 494
Re: Sad record: 50*C

I've seen 50* on mine this year, and it's doing fine. It's been a super hot summer, and the daily high temps with no nighttime drops in temp have forced me to reduce my midday riding when possible and completely stop using regen braking.

My range is down, but I consider that a normal issue because I make so many short cycle trips. When the weather cools a bit, I'll do a few deep discharge "battery conditioning" runs to build it back up again.

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

I've seen 50* on mine this year, and it's doing fine. It's been a super hot summer

have often seen 48C on my V, it takes a licking and keeps on kicking

Last summer I could easely keep the temperature under 30ºC. This summer a cell/s gets overdischarged and heats up over 40-45ºC. I believe that 50ºC is not the normal temperature for a vectrix's battery. What range do you have?
Xvectrix, what do you think?

turok
turok's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 00:27
Points: 338
Re: Sad record: 50*C

Hi R,

I don't think 50°C + is good for the battery, but I understand Mocassin and Israndy are in hot places, so the combination of environmental heat and usage could easily get the temps this high (I saw 45+ once when temps were around 30°, but then I pushed the bike fast ánd far. @ 7500km I still have the range I had after breaking it in.)

R, you're in Spain I think, was it hot at that time?
I mean was the temperature raise unexpectedly high?

The temp also rose from 48 to 50, but that's normal, when you drive the passing air cools the pack, when you stop, the heat still radiates from it and builds up..

I also see your voltage was 123, how many bars did you have left?

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

R, you're in Spain I think, was it hot at that time?
I mean was the temperature raise unexpectedly high?

The temp also rose from 48 to 50, but that's normal, when you drive the passing air cools the pack, when you stop, the heat still radiates from it and builds up..

I also see your voltage was 123, how many bars did you have left?

Yes! Indeed it is pretty hot. The funny thing is that by parking in the shade and recharging the bike during the early hours in the morning I managed to keep the temp under 30ºC. Now doing the same routine, same hot weather, the temp rises over 40ºC.
The voltage was 123V, 0 bars left, 0 km range. the last 50 meters the bike was crawling at 15 km/h. 50ºC with battery flashing. I lost 9 bars in 3 km...

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

After the 50ºC incident, the bike has lost range. It is no longer usable. Probably the lithium upgrade packs will take long time to hit in, therefore the most logical thing I can do now is to ask for a battery replacement under warranty... It will be the same bmsless battery which will fail again after few months. And this time I won't have any warranty.
ummh....

turok
turok's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 00:27
Points: 338
Re: Sad record: 50*C

Sad indeed..

But look at it this way: by the time your next battery gets fried, Lithium might be an actual and affordable option.

I sure hope so. The longer my battery works, the better, but I won't cry for it..

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

by the time your next battery gets fried, Lithium might be an actual and affordable option.

And without warranty, I'll be able to add some electronics to extend its useful life. And of course,a "must add": the cycle analyst....I have all my confidence in MIK's suggestions.. :-)
mikemitbike
mikemitbike's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 7 months ago
Joined: Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 13:07
Points: 310
Re: Sad record: 50*C

Hi R,
consumer law in Austria says if a component fails and has to be replaced, the warranty of this component "is set to zero" so you should have
another two years left. As we are both in EU consumer-law in spain could be simmilar?

Greetings Mike

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

As we are both in EU consumer-law in spain could be simmilar?

I'm not sure at all....
R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

To obtain a replacement under warranty some memory dumps are requested. They will be sent to Poland. Before each memory dump I must drive the vectrix to red battery light. He.
The result:
SNC00318.jpg
No coments...

israndy
israndy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 16 min ago
Joined: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 08:53
Points: 312
Re: Sad record: 50*C

K-Rap, now you got me scared. You are taking it to the dealer to get it's memory dumped? Or is Mr. Scott still the one-man-band in the EU on repairs? Since I tossed off the comment about the heat being weather related our weather has returned to summer cold, but I now get bAthot's with each ride. Very nervous. Should have kept my mouth closed.

Other topic:

So if you are in the EU and have your iPhone replaced the new one has a NEW one year warranty? I work for Apple, you would think I would have heard if such a thing were true. You could just keep going in and getting that unit replaced over and over again. How do companies protect themselves from people wanting a replacement item long after the company stopped making them. Does Apple have to give them the iPhone 4 to replace the original iPhone that broke at the end of it's warranty twice? Not complaining. Thinking about moving there. I do love the Bay Area so, but that's pretty nice.

-Randy

______________________
I also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

You are taking it to the dealer to get it's memory dumped?

yes! I'm lucky the local barcelona's dealer is only 6 miles away, instead of 300...

but I now get bAthot's with each ride. Very nervous.

Don't get nervous. ;-)
Fact: Your battery is damaged.

Action: Is the bike under warranty?
If yes:
You can't save the battery. What's more, Vectrix does not have any proceeding to save or stabilize it. Enjoy the bike until the battery gets damage enough: very low range will trigger the replacement(my case).

If no:
Save the battery by finding damaged cells, adding BMS, replacing cells, charging with freddy charger etc.(Mik's case, he managed to extend the useful life of his damaged battery)

About the other topic, no, in Catalunya you get as many replacements as needed, but for only 2 years. No warranty reset...

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

I've been allowed to take a picture of my vectrix's temp readings during the memory dump.

temperatures vectrix.jpg

The battery is divided into 2 blocks, with 6 sensors in each block.
There's 3 layers in each block. And each layer contains only two temp sensors (green boards) and 18 or 16 cells.

boards vectrix.jpg

Each temperature sensor can "sense" 2 cells, 4 cells out of 16/18 cells are controlled, roughly 25% of cells of the entire pack are thermally controlled.

My problem is located in the sensor 4D-3 48.6C!!. Because this 4D block's ambient temperature is lower, it receives direct fresh air from outside?

How is ventilates the battery?
1- The fresh air is sucked trough two ventilation holes in the front part:
aspiració.JPG

2- The sucked air is conducted to the bottom of the battery. I guess each ventilation conduct ventilate one block independently.
recorregut.jpg

3- While the air flows up, it cools down the battery, and it is sucked outside by two impellers. In the diagram, I can see that the impellers (air plenums), placed above the battery, suck each battery block independently.

exploded2.jpg

If each block is independently ventilated, why the ambient temperature sensors differ: Block 4D 23.4C Block 4E 31.2C?
Anybody knows where every sensor is located inside the battery?, I'm sure this info is already posted, but I can't find where...

.

mikemitbike
mikemitbike's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 7 months ago
Joined: Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 13:07
Points: 310
Re: Sad record: 50*C

Hi R,
the battery-boxes have "little feet" on which they are standing. So there is only one "airchamber" for both batteryparts.
Both airpipes are ending in the frontpart of the batterybay on a equal place (side by side NOT one in front and backward.
Having a look on fotos here in the forum and the www there is only ONE airstream through both battery-boxes, the airstreams
are NOT seperated for each box.

I hope I managed to write it in a way everyone understands (my rusty english and the lack of photos)

Greetings Mike

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

Both airpipes are ending in the frontpart of the batterybay on a equal place

thanks! This explains the difference of temperature. The front pack receives direct fresh air, and ambient sensor feels cooler temperature. Block 4D is placed in front, 4E in the rear position.

I hope I managed to write it in a way everyone understands (my rusty english and the lack of photos)

Your English is far better than my spanglish, if I were you I wouldn't worry about that...

What about the exact position of the board sensors inside the battery?

mikemitbike
mikemitbike's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 7 months ago
Joined: Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 13:07
Points: 310
Re: Sad record: 50*C

...
Block 4D is placed in front, 4E in the rear position.
...
What about the exact position of the board sensors inside the battery?

Just a guess: refering to Mik´s and other photos each of the 12 modules has a sensor (Mod temp 1...) the sensors are
connected to the two sensorboards (PCB?) maybe each of the ambient temperature sensor is located on one of the boards.
Otherwise one of the sensor is maybe somwhere in the air intake while the other is maybe in the "hot-air-exhaust", but
thats allready the position of the two sensorboards (maybe therefore was the now-sealde hole causing waterproblems with
the front-board (for better ambient-temp. measuring).
That could be ONE explanation of the temp. difference between theese two sensors?

To the second question: Sorry I don´t know which sensor-name stands for which module...

Greetings Mike

dvdaudio
dvdaudio's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 11 months ago
Joined: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 20:40
Points: 32
Re: Sad record: 50*C

Just had similar experience. Around 12/16 bars, then blank screen; crawled home at 20-25 KMH. This was after a supposedly full charge the night before with about 10km distance since charge. Also had Bathot message with both RED battery indicators glowing.

When I let cool down overnight, running battery blowers, then plugged in for charge noticed voltage went from 130 to 140 in about ten seconds, temp went from 28˚C to 40˚C in four minutes.

Pretty sure I've got a blown battery or perhaps more. Looking a Mik's pictures and layout of temp sensors as shown in the post, I'm pretty sure I've got a cell or more in bad shape.

WHERE CAN WE GET REPLACEMENT GP30 CELLS?

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1768
Re: Sad record: 50*C

during the memory dump I could have a glimpse at the parts list.
Cost of old charger: 1500 eur+VAT
cost of RUNKE charger 360 eur+VAT
Cost of motorcontroller 1200 eur+VAT
Cost of battery 3800 eur+VAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't understand why a battery replacement costs 3800 eur... and it does not have BMS!!!
dvdaudio, as fas as I know the only way to get individual cells is to ask somebody upgrading to lithium to sell you some NIMH cells.

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: Sad record: 50*C

hibba here in Western Australia has several packs hes breaking apart.

Mik (QLD) might have some cells

procrastination inc would have some aswell.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km

dvdaudio
dvdaudio's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 11 months ago
Joined: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 20:40
Points: 32
Re: Sad record: 50*C

Thanks gents.

Anyone willing to sell removed cells in OK or better shape?

If so, you can email me privately: dvdaudio [at] mac.com or post here.

I'm not sure shipping costs, especially AU. Will check out and see if worth it.

I've seen on this site that several have contacted Gold Peak, but they only interested in "Distributor" quantities in 100's or 1000's; is that true?

I'm wondering if what's left of Vectrix in Massachusettes has any? I'm not bitching about warranty or anything, just access to small quantity to get my range back.

My V was put on road December 08; now with 4300km to date.

(too smart - too late. Would have bought Piaggio MP3, has no problem in our desert heat.)

Glen O'
Arizona, USA

Mik
Mik's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 10 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 15:27
Points: 3739
Re: Sad record: 50*C

Thanks gents.

Anyone willing to sell removed cells in OK or better shape?

If so, you can email me privately: dvdaudio [at] mac.com or post here.

I'm not sure shipping costs, especially AU. Will check out and see if worth it.

I've seen on this site that several have contacted Gold Peak, but they only interested in "Distributor" quantities in 100's or 1000's; is that true?

I'm wondering if what's left of Vectrix in Massachusettes has any? I'm not bitching about warranty or anything, just access to small quantity to get my range back.

My V was put on road December 08; now with 4300km to date.

(too smart - too late. Would have bought Piaggio MP3, has no problem in our desert heat.)

Glen O'
Arizona, USA

AZVectrix sent me cells for free, but the shipping is expensive. As far as I know, he still had a lot of cells left and does not want them. Much closer to you!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Log in or register to post comments


Who's online

There are currently 0 users online.

Who's new

  • JCunnius
  • U156531
  • Shoney
  • Deadvx-1
  • OnTimeSport

Support V is for Voltage