X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which one ?

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ebiker999
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X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which one ?

Hi folks, I am brand new here, but are interested in getting an electric moped scooter that don't require Driver License/insurance/tag/plate to operate. I am trying to find a bike that can be modified and go up to 35 mph, cause I think with that 35 mph max, it is easier to mix into city traffic without getting passed by or run over by bigger cars or trucks.
I have looked around and think that these two brands are the ticket BUT don't know which way to take. If anyone has owned a Green Flyer bike and can share some experience I would really appreciate. Is any of these bike run up to 40 miles per charge, for real?
Thank yo so much, this forum is so informative and friendly. I am very sorry if I posted in a wrong forum, since I saw so many threads on X-treme scooters like this forum, so I guess it should be answered and clarified.
regards,
m. Ruamthawee

robert93
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Keep in mind the minute you mod an ebike to go over 20 mph unassisted, you are back to needing appropriate licensing for the capability of the machine. If licensing is an issue, dont mod, if the mod causes the bike to exceed the speed/power ratings. That puts you back to which is the best out of the box?

ebiker999
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Bob93, do you own any of these e-bike (scooter-looking)? If so, would you be able to advise how to operate this bike efficiently on road, I have read many who said don't ride on sidewalks to catch cop attention, against the law, at the same time, some folks suggest riding it on the road like cars but to the right side similar to fast road biker on bike lanes. Would you be able to suggest more?
Well, on the modifications, I just like to have speed up to 30+ mph sometimes to pass some roads that are very narrow and don't want lot of cars trailing behind you that can' t pass you by...just to mix into the flow of traffic once I pass that part, I am sure be back to limit 20mph, that is my point.
If that is gonna be big issue, then are there any people who did mods would like to suggest why mods if it is gonna require license and registration.

thanks

robert93
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

I write from a hardcore legalistic standpoint, since if I get caught breaking the law, I go to jail (bad eyes cant drive a car legally) I own a different brand scooter-style e-bike that i will NOT endorse as their pedals wont stay on to any degree, and I am having to build a crankset since the retailer/importer who sold it to me over the net refused to make good on it. When faced with a heavy trail of traffic, sometimes you just have to pull over and let them pass, so as not to be obstructing traffic. Many places ban cyclists over 14 from using sidewalks, so yes, stay off of them unless your area's laws allow. Also keep the pedals on at all times, without them, its not a bicycle. Other than that, follow standard common sense bicycling, and local bicycle law. I dont think all mods are bad, and some have said that a "shunt mod" is one of the best ways to get up hills.

ebiker999
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

What is "shunt Mod" ? I went into a shop locally that sell TNT-e scooter, it has 500w brushless motor, claiming to run 40 miles per charge and top speed @ 27 mph, the tech guy (employee) said you have to take restrictor off inside the trunk underneath the seat, is this what he is talking about ?
Bob, what brand of e-scooter that you are having problem with? Have you heard Green Flyer bike? what brand would you suggest or anybody would suggest? I kind a scared of x-treme since you have to assemble the whole bike by yourself from the box, I am not sure I can be precise on that, and plus I heard it is very difficult to get a real human live support if you encounter problems and issues, etc. I am leaning to Green Flyer bike cause they are sold by company that have real human support and talk to, like dealer thing in FL.
thanks

solutionsgem
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Hi, Welcome to the forum! We are proud owners and dealers of the 700Li scooters. Our opinion might not count because we recommend and sell this scooters to the public.

As mentioned before, depending on the state you are in, you might have to registered and or insure it. Let us know your state so we can send you a link of your DMV that talks about mopes and scooters. Many states allow these bikes to ride on the bike lane without a license and insurance.

You can visit the link below where there is some information about the differences between the 700Li and the 600:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/9564-xb-600-vs-xb-700li

There are several threads that talk about the modifications of both bike/scooters

Here is a link for modifications on the 700Li:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/8376-xb700li-mods

Here is a link for the 600 mods:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3534-30-mph-xtreme-xb-600-60v-modification-instructions

You can do a search within the forum for all the different mods

According to the manufacturer the new LiPo4 battery is good for 20 to 30 miles. We have driven our 700Li for 30 miles on a single charge and it still showed some charge left. The lead acid battery bikes are usually good for 20 miles or less. It is never a good idea to deep discharge a lead acid battery. We recommend the Lithium batteries. The cost is higher. If you can not afford lithium now, you can always upgrade the batteries later.

Let us know if you have additional questions.

Energy Independence For A Bright Future.

www.solutionsgem.com

robert93
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

After looking at the Green Flyer webpage.... 350 watts, 40 miles per charge, on SLA batteries, and capable of 27mph??? I smell Fertilizer!!!! The styling looks like many other china bikes out there. Branding and advertising set aside, I think you need to find places that stock these bikes and inspect/testride in person, even with no motor and just pedaling, you wont want to do that long, just enough to know you arent walking and pushing if the fuse blows. Many of these "dealers" are just webpage dropshippers, with no stock in parts, and no mechanical know how. There are some out there though. Solutionsgem has some very good videos on the 700Li, which i was leaning towards when I found the thread on the bad batteries, which has now been resolved. Since you asked, the mistake i made was with going for a 500watt Commuter in Maroon from ECruizer.com. I strongly encourage NOT dealing with them. Really, the pedals fall off the spindle before 3 turns of the crank. Without those, its not a bicycle, and legally not useable by me, so, I'm having to do things the hard way. If I'd seen the bike in person, I'd have walked away, er, maybe run.

ebiker999
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Solutiongem, thanks for the link and info. How long have you had the xb 700 li? Is the Lithium Lfpod4 safer than SLA battery ? Have you modified your xb 700 to get up to 35 mph? If this true, that is incredible but again it sure will drain your battery faster, in the end it will shorten the traveling range to less than 20 miles per charge if you run at 30+ mph speed. I saw your price on the 700 li, it is kind a high for me, I have to check more to see who gets the best price, and agian, I need someone who can sell me the bike with real human support down the road, cause when something happens I need real support not online or phone from dealer 1000 miles away !

thanks :)

ebiker999
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Bob93, so sorry to know about your situation, I know it is really hard and tough not be able to drive legally, I hear you. Also, I hope you fix your ride soon. So you would suggest staying away from Green Flyer Bike...nope they only said 20 mph top, the 27 mph is from another dealer (after modification) I am looking to find an x-treme dealers close to me and go from there, cause I won't be able to assemble myself from the crate, I definitely need real support both parts and service down the road, the real physical shop that really sells the bike is what I am looking for, not online dealers.
Thank You a bunch for your info...great friend !

solutionsgem
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Hi, You are welcome! We have had our 700Li for two years. We bought it on August 2008. We liked it so much that we became dealers in our area. Our bike has almost 2000 miles on the bicycle odometer we installed (The speedometer included with the bike is useless and it does not have an odometer) Our bike has the previous generation Lithium battery. We believe the new generation LiPo4 battery is more stable and safer than the previous generation. The LiPo4 batteries are more stable and longer lasting than SLA batteries. We would like to say that LiPo4 batteries are safer than SLAs but we are not experts in the matter. We just know that every one of our customers that have the new Lithium LiPo4 battery are very happy with its performance.

We have not modified our 700Li to get up to 35 MPH. We might do it if the controller or motor fails. So far the bike still goes up to 22 MPH. Since the bike only goes up to that speed the bike does not attract the unwanted attention of a cop.
Yes you are right, the faster the bike goes the shorter the distance you will get. Plus it might not qualify as a power assisted bicycle.

The guy at the 700Li Mod thread seems like he really knows what he is doing. He has installed a second battery, a more powerful motor and controller. That is an investment of time and money.

Our bike is fast enough to get us from point A to point B and slow enough not to get us in to any trouble.

We have been riding license, insurance and registration free for two years. That to us is $5000 a year in savings. Car Insurance alone savings paid for our bike within the first year. We have solar panels installed in our roof. We do not pay anything to recharge our bike. We are almost fossil fuels free.

If you are in Florida, please check the link below to get some information about the Florida Laws:

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_Police/about_us/Investigations_and_Support/Special_Support_Division/Traffic_Unit/motorcycles_and_mo...

Let us know if you have additional questions.

Al

Energy Independence For A Bright Future.

www.solutionsgem.com

mf70
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

As a three-year daily user of an un-modded scoot, I'd like to put in another word in favor of the stock set-up.

At a nominal 700Watts, the XB600 actually draws 950Watts according to my CycleAnalyst. I HAVE modded connectors and wiring, bringing supply busses up to 10GA from the stock 14GA, replacing connectors, and rewiring for series/ parallel charging to ensure balance.

The scoot has a very firm 20 mph cap. Above 22 mph downhill, it goes into regen, for a top limited speed even downhill of 25 mph.

That may seem slow, but if you think of it as an effortless ride that is as fast as an enthusiastic bike rider, it's easy to enjoy. For another ego boost, have a ride along side a fairly good bike rider. I'll bet he'll be drafting YOU within half an hour!

In my area, on the narrow roads, I pull over and let the slugs of car traffic through, then resume my ride on the empty road they leave behind. Hooray for traffic lights! On slightly wider roads, I ride to the right and have had no trouble.

Mark

ebiker999
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

You have used xb 600 for 3 years, is it supposed to be 600 watts motor or I misread you said 700 watts? How many miles you can run on that xb 600 before the charge running out? 20 or 30 miles per charge ?
How is the brake system after 3 years daily usage, have you ever replaced or adjusted any of the brake? How difficult are those brake to take care of or adjust? Are they similar to v brake on 21 spd bike like Specialized or Trek, etc ? I ask cause these are details that would help me and others who still undecided which bike to go with 600 or 700 li or others .
thanks

mf70
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

All good questions:

You have used xb 600 for 3 years,

Well.. I first had 2 Yonkang Crown 700Watt scoots: The first was stolen (!)(*)*(&^*&%^) after about six months, and the second died of brush-commutator failure after 1.25 years.

is it supposed to be 600 watts motor or I misread you said 700 watts?

Whatever the nominal wattage, the actual power draw is considerably greater. I've checked the actual draw in several ways and gotten the same answer: 950 Watts max.

How many miles you can run on that xb 600 before the charge running out? 20 or 30 miles per charge ?

I've never gone below 30% SOC. Running batteries until they are flat is a very quick way to ruin them. My longest ride has been about 10 miles in fairly hilly terrain. 30 miles, ridden at very moderate speed over flat terrain, might be possible, if you didn't mind flattening the pack.

How is the brake system after 3 years daily usage

I've got about two years of daily riding on the XB600. Brake wear seems acceptable It is helped by fairly aggressive electrical dynamic braking (NOT regen) and by regen for speed control as I think I described.
have you ever replaced or adjusted any of the brake? How difficult are those brake to take care of or adjust? Are they similar to v brake on 21 spd bike like Specialized or Trek, etc ?

The brakes are very basic 4" dia drum brakes. The need about monthly attention in the form of adjusting brake clearance. Maintenance and shoe removal is easy.

Two other continuing maintenance issues, beyond maintaining battery pack balance: 1) keep steering bearing tension/clearance proper (too loose makes EXTREMELY dangerous handling) 2) Visually check all power connectors between pack and wheel motor. Stock connectors are light brass, and with slight corrosion, they can catastrophically overheat.

You also asked about riding in the rain. I HAVE ridden in quite heavy rain, and there has been no problem. I use a poncho over the handlebars and a helmet with face mask in those conditions. The only conditions that are a stopper is slimy, crusty snow. The weight distribution is bad for traction, and it is very easy to dump in slippery conditions.

The scoot is quite casual about waterproofing, and would probably benefit by wraps of self-amalgamating tape around the connectors in the controller area, though this would make the crucial connection inspections harder. It might be possible to put a waterproof junction box in that area for the concentration of connectors there.

Mark

ebiker999
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Two other continuing maintenance issues, beyond maintaining battery pack balance: 1) keep steering bearing tension/clearance proper (too loose makes EXTREMELY dangerous handling)

What is this ? Steering bearing tension/clearance ? I know it is difficult to understand by not owning a bike yet, but could you explain a little bit more on this?

2) Visually check all power connectors between pack and wheel motor. Stock connectors are light brass, and with slight corrosion, they can catastrophically overheat.

You also asked about riding in the rain. I HAVE ridden in quite heavy rain, and there has been no problem. I use a poncho over the handlebars and a helmet with face mask in those conditions.

A poncho ?, how about clear raincoat? basically just cover the handle bar area and dial & speedometer, that area without getting wet?

The only conditions that are a stopper is slimy, crusty snow. The weight distribution is bad for traction, and it is very easy to dump in slippery conditions.

The scoot is quite casual about waterproofing, and would probably benefit by wraps of self-amalgamating tape around the connectors in the controller area,

Controller area, I read that the xb 700 li has sealed and water/rain proof on them, is this similar to xb 600? Basically, I need to find some way to cover this controller area, is this underneath the seat or just above the rear wheel?
I am kind a curious how it handle in the rain, since you have ridden it in the rain, then I know how to take care of it.

Great information, awesome.
though this would make the crucial connection inspections harder. It might be possible to put a waterproof junction box in that area for the concentration of connectors there.

mf70
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Two other continuing maintenance issues, beyond maintaining battery pack balance: 1) keep steering bearing tension/clearance proper (too loose makes EXTREMELY dangerous handling)

What is this ? Steering bearing tension/clearance ? I know it is difficult to understand by not owning a bike yet, but could you explain a little bit more on this?

The XB600 uses a steel "U" frame which sweeps up above the hydraulic front forks. Weight distribution is perhaps 20/80 front/rear. The lightly loaded front wheel is very sensitive to shimmy if there is ANY play in the head tube bearings. This needs to be attended to if you try rocking the bike with the front brakes locked and get a "clunk" sound from the headset (there will be a small amount of harmless "clunking" from the brake mounting that should be disregarded). The bearings are fairly standard technology, similar to head tube bearings on other small two wheelers. However, access to the bearing flats is limited, and requires removal of much of the forward airings.


You also asked about riding in the rain. I HAVE ridden in quite heavy rain, and there has been no problem. I use a poncho over the handlebars and a helmet with face mask in those conditions.

A poncho ?, how about clear raincoat? basically just cover the handle bar area and dial & speedometer, that area without getting wet?

I like the poncho because the excess fabric allows the forward "skirt" to be draped over the bars, leaving you under a fairly dry "tent" as you ride.

As to waterproofing, the controller and a cluster of electrical connectors are located in a fairly dry, "splash resistant" area under the seat bucket and ahead of the rear wheel. There is certainly room for a more thorough weatherproofing. You can see what my scoot looked like as I unpacked it at:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/6832-new-xb-600

BTW, try highlighting the text you want to feature and clicking the "ed_block" or "quote" icon above the editing window. That will make it easier to understand what you are commenting on. You can see the effect with the "Preview" button before you put it up on the board.

Mark

ebiker999
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Thank you so much for your explanation and information regarding the x-treme xb 600. Now has anyone ever changed rear tire and tube? I know you know how to assemble and put together front tire onto the bike but I have not seen or heard of people changin tire and tube on the rear wheel. Since it is the wheel hub motor, so does this mean you have to disconnect plug and cables and unbolt the whole wheel off? What is the correct way to change tire and tube on the rear wheel? For example xb-700li, does anyone know?
Also, they said ride-on is good protection on tube against flat, how we use it, you just squeeze inside the tube from the air nipple or how you do it ?
thank you

robert93
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

As to rear tire replacement, fixing flats, here is a discussion on that, which has a link to a youtube video of such repair
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/9673-rear-tire-picked-nail-gio-500
This video may look like the hard way, but it does not involve removing the wiring.

mf70
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Here's a sketch I made of the rear wheel fastening:
//i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa122/mf70/XB-600/Axletips.jpg)

Basically you unscrew whatever you need to to get he wheel free, and unplug both the 3 phase wires and the 5 Hall effect sensor wires. You then treat it as either an easy motorcycle tire or a hard bicycle tire. Make sure you don't pinch the wire bundle as it comes out of the axle!

On reassembly, make sure you have tightened the axle nuts sufficiently. I also found that the tabbed washers hadn't been sized to fit in the swing arm slot easily, so I had to do a little grinding to get them to fit. To add a washer where I indicated, you would have to gently remove the contacts from the 5-gang plug (REMEMBERING WHERE THEY CAME FROM!). Otherwise, it's merely an unplug-and-plug operation electrically.

Mark

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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Well, guess I'll chime in here and maybe offer some info since I've been asking questions of MF70 all morning!

I've had my xb600 for about 3 years now. I don't ride everyday and use it more for recreational riding. But, I can state this about the range. Shortly after I got it I (without knowing at that time it was a bad thing!) rode it till I ran the batteries almost all the way down. I wanted to see if in fact I could get 30 miles range. Well, I did...and managed to creep back in my driveway. I live where most roads are flat with few hills so this was riding on flat rodes...very little inclines.

I'm puzzled reading MF70's comments about the xb600 not going faster than 25mph downhill. I'm sure I've went over 25mph downhill and faster. I mean it's mostly flat around where I live as I previously stated...but there are a few short steep hills...and there's one in particular that I go down and I recall going much faster than 25mph. I think my speed measuring is accurate since I use a bike computer and don't just depend on the stock speedo. Curious.....

Anyway, MF70 has alot of great info/tips so take heed to his suggestions if you do buy an xb600!

Gus

Gus

mf70
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

I've got a "DrainBrain" (the ancestor of the Cycle Analyst) wired in, which gives both speed and electrical activity data. (Also, crucially, an odometer!) Above about 23 MPH (true) regen suddenly builds up while coasting to about 400 watts reverse current. The only places I've ridden in that "mode" are conventional city streets of about 5% grade; a steeper hill might overpower the regen and allow greater speed.

Thanks for the nice words.

Mark

ebiker999
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Re: X-Treme xb 700li, or xb 600 VS Green Flyer Bike...which ...

Great video Bob, it seems to be easy without taking off any of cable cord! well wait till I get a flat and do it myself, will see.
Now, Does anyone know where are alternative stores to buy a spare tube and tire for 16x3 size for that xb 700li? Also, spare lithium lipo4 pack BESIDES buying straight from X-treme itself? Anyone?

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