68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

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MitchJi
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68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Hi,

Someone at New Vectrix who confirmed the warranty status (required to qualify for a $1,500 CA State rebate) of my planned VX1 purchase (hope to pull the trigger this week) also sent me this:

Keep in mind the latest software release greatly improved the performance and cell management of the NiMH batteries.

What is the latest software and how can I confirm the Scooter I purchase has it?

The easiest way to verify the software to ask what the top speed of the vehicle is. The new software has a top speed of 68 mph.

Best Wishes!

Mitch

antiscab
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

The easiest way to verify the software to ask what the top speed of the vehicle is. The new software has a top speed of 68 mph.

thats partly true.

the MCR 1017-68mph, MCR 1017 and MCR 1017-50mph all treat the battery exaclty the same.
the top speed is the only difference.

As long as you have that new version of MC firmware, you will also have one of the good versions of the Battery charger firmware (post 2008, or version numbers: BCR 2017 or newer, BCR 3001 being the newest).

otherwise stock Vectrix do best with those firmware revisions.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Wolfgang
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Could anyone provide me with the latest motor controller and charger firmware files?

Rgds
Wolfgang

antiscab
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

NO worries Wolfgang,

just PM me your email address and ill send them over.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

MitchJi
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Hi Matt,

The easiest way to verify the software to ask what the top speed of the vehicle is. The new software has a top speed of 68 mph.

thats partly true.

the MCR 1017-68mph, MCR 1017 and MCR 1017-50mph all treat the battery exaclty the same.
the top speed is the only difference.

As long as you have that new version of MC firmware, you will also have one of the good versions of the Battery charger firmware (post 2008, or version numbers: BCR 2017 or newer, BCR 3001 being the newest).

otherwise stock Vectrix do best with those firmware revisions.

Matt

Thank you very much for the information. Is the BCR 3001 better than BCR 2017?

If so how do I determine which version the scooter has?

Is the following a reliable method?:

You can check it by turning on the bike, turning off the kill switch and pulling the left brake. The speedometer needle should show about 42-43km/h and the left LCD display should show the battery temperature and Voltage. The it doesn't show the the last two things, then it's loaded with pre-october 2008 firmware, which will surely destroy your battery pack.

Thanks Again!

Best Wishes!

Mitch

antiscab
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

BCR 3001 and BCR 2017 both have the same charging approach, its just BCR 3001 has more bug fixes.

Battery service life will be the same on either version.

Both versions will show battery voltage and temperature when you pull the left brake.

pre oct 2008 firmware is BCR 2012 and MCR 1014b or earlier

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

MitchJi
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Thanks Matt!

Best Wishes!

Mitch

antiscab
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Ah hah, theres the longer response I typed out earlier:

Thank you very much for the information. Is the BCR 3001 better than BCR 2017?

If so how do I determine which version the scooter has?

Is the following a reliable method?:

You can check it by turning on the bike, turning off the kill switch and pulling the left brake. The speedometer needle should show about 42-43km/h and the left LCD display should show the battery temperature and Voltage. The it doesn't show the the last two things, then it's loaded with pre-october 2008 firmware, which will surely destroy your battery pack.

BCR 3001 has more bug fixes than BCR 2017, but their approach to charging is the same.

both versions will show pack voltage and temperature when you pull the left brake with the kill switch on.

pre oct 2008 firmware will probably have BCR 2012 and MCR 1014b
BCR2012 overcharges, and MCR1014b has a lower minimum voltage.

red light also behaves differently on the old software.
the old software lights the red light when pack voltage is below 107v (IIRC)
the fuel guage doesn't reset unless you hold the voltage down for some time.

the new software only lights the red light when the pack voltage is 107v and less than 70amps for 5 sec (IIRC).
the red light comes on when the fuel guage is reset.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

AndY1
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

What if you don't drive as fast to reach 70Amps? I mean, I don't drive any faster than 70km/h, where the current is only at about 30Amps and I still get the red battery telltale. Is the only condition to trigger the red battery telltale 107V? That's the same as with the old firmware. Didn't they raise the cut-off from 107V to 118V?

duca
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

If you install the 68mph software, doesn'it give homologation issues since the Vectrix is homologated at 65mph to my knowledge (i.e. 105kmh)?
Not that I would mind that much, just a "technicality"

antiscab
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

What if you don't drive as fast to reach 70Amps? I mean, I don't drive any faster than 70km/h, where the current is only at about 30Amps and I still get the red battery telltale. Is the only condition to trigger the red battery telltale 107V? That's the same as with the old firmware. Didn't they raise the cut-off from 107V to 118V?

in the old software min voltage was 95v.

in the new software its been raised to 107v.

having the minimum voltage at 118v would reduce max power substantially.
the 50mph software variant might do that, but I have yet to try it out.

70kmh would be 30A average, but hills and wind can increase that.

by going 70kmh, you can indeed discharge much more deeply, but no more so than riding until your top speed is 70kmh.

red battery tell tale inthe new software indicates the battery is depleted and the fuel guage is reset.

red battery tell tale in the old software just means pack voltage is below 107v.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Aircon
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

My red light comes on at 123v....so is that not right then?

antiscab
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

My red light comes on at 123v....so is that not right then?

yeh thats fine.

123v is no load or 0A.

the definition looked for is 107v @ 70A or lower.

voltage sags when you pull current, it sags lots more when the battery is depleted.

Matt

EDIT: was supposed to be 70A or *lower*

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

kingcharles
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Well, my throttle was fixed today so I was able to test the new firmware on the way home. For me the bike feels slower on accelleration. The bike does 110/111 on the speedo so that works.
Maybe it is just me but it feels less responsive to the throttle also.
My throttle problem was caused by a broken pin to restrict the throttle movement. The new firmware does not accept throttle value above 850 and my old throttle went over 865.
They installed a new throttle assembly (which took them a long time) and this fixed the problem.
Perhaps my old throttle with the higher value explains the acceleration reduction I felt?
My range seems unaffected (only used the top speed shortly) it even seems better. But after 1 ride it could've been less headwinds. Will keep an eye on it though. Less acceleration may mean more range for me.

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

turok
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Kingcharles, did you get your firmware at Escini's?

(My dealer in Antwerp does not want to install it untill Escini approves it.)

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

kingcharles
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

@turok

Yes, it was there for some repairs after I was hit by a car (while line splitting). I asked them about the firmware and they loaded it. It was only after they got approval from the polish factory though.
They told me I now have the first bike to have this firmware in their service area :-) Nice to know I have the fastest Vectrix of the country (probably for a short while though as others will catch up).
They were not aware of the 850 throttle limit though and they only found out after my problems. So be sure your dealer is aware of this.

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

turok
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Thank you Kingcharles!

My dealer will now also upgrade mine!

cheers!

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

X Vectrix
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Some clarifications:
There are no changes in anything having to do with throttle values. The 68mph SW does not affect acceleration in any way, just max speed.
The red icon illuminates when the power, is below about 5900 Watts and the voltage is less than 118V for about 7 seconds.

antiscab
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Some clarifications:
There are no changes in anything having to do with throttle values. The 68mph SW does not affect acceleration in any way, just max speed.
The red icon illuminates when the power, is below about 5900 Watts and the voltage is less than 118V for about 7 seconds.

oops, thanks for the correction.

kept thinking MC voltage limit was also the trigger for red light.
to mayn voltages swirling around in my head :S

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

israndy
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

it was there for some repairs after I was hit by a car (while line splitting).

So there are other parts of the world that are OK with Lane Splitting, thought it was just California that almost encouraged it. Glad you were not hurt. The news here every morning says "Traffic jam around a down motorcycle". I am always shocked it's not me that's getting hit with no loud pipes to let people know I am there. No horn that will blow until it's too late.

-Randy

Also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

HubCap
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Some clarifications:
There are no changes in anything having to do with throttle values. The 68mph SW does not affect acceleration in any way, just max speed.
The red icon illuminates when the power, is below about 5900 Watts and the voltage is less than 118V for about 7 seconds.

X Vectrix,

Are you sure your point about acceleration is correct? I'm fairly sure I felt an improvement in acceleration in the mid range ( from about 20/30MPH ).

Cheers

Hubcap

Keep it shiny side up!

X Vectrix
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Hubcap
Yes I'm positive.
XV

kingcharles
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

It is legal here to do lane splitting. If a car suddenly changes directions, while you are next to it, there is not much you can do. I wear a bright reflective vest, always have the indicator on (including the beeping horn after 20 secs) but if somebody forgets to look in the mirror...
And the noise? When I am in a car I cannot hear most regular bikes coming from behind either.
But if you keep a small speed difference and merge back above 45-50 km/h I still feel it is safe. I did not even fall down after being hit. And the bike only had cosmetic damage.

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

kingcharles
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

X,

My old throttle worked fine with the old firmware, but as soon as the new one was loaded it no longer worked. could it be that the older firmware accepted values higher than 850?
Perhaps this explains my feeling of degraded acceleration?
Thanks.

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

antiscab
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

X,

My old throttle worked fine with the old firmware, but as soon as the new one was loaded it no longer worked. could it be that the older firmware accepted values higher than 850?

have you tried recalibrating the throttle?

what ICM version are you running?
1008 is the latest I have, but I have seen bikes with version 1004 that didn't run to well with the latest charger and MC revisions.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

kingcharles
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Re: 68 mph upgrade = latest NiMH Cell Management Software

Escini (dutch importer) did all the work, I have not seen the details of the software. I only saw the throttle values on their laptop as I was curiously looking over their shoulders. They did try to calibrate the old throttle but a pin that prevents the throttle from being twisted to far was broken so calibration was not possible.
They made a call to the factory and they advised to swap the throttle. The old one rattled when driving over bumps. The new one is silent.

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

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