Help with XB-600 scooter

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tmtmaats
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Help with XB-600 scooter

A couple of days ago, my friend gave me his XB-600 because it didnt work anymore. He said something shorted while charging and that he didnt want to service it or spend time on it. So looking at it, I first decided to charge the battery. It was still in good condition, and after it was fully charged I put it back in the the compartment. Nothing happened, no lights on, no battery meter turning, just nothing. I thought that this might be a wire problem, so I inspected the wires. They looked fine, a lil dusty, but still ok. Then I came across the fuse. Opening the plastic case, I saw that it was gone and needed to be replaced. So, after replacing it with the correct type, I put the key in. This time the lights,the battery indicator, and the horn worked. But it didnt not start.

So my question is, [i've never started nor seen one start before] is this the proper way to start? Simply put the key in and turn once? I tried that, and even kept pushing the red button the on right hand side, which I later figured out was the horn. Nothing happens. Turning the throttle, and the same result, nothing.

So except for the lights, horn, and battery meter, nothing [the motor] works. What do I need to do?

Is there a way I can check the condition of the motor?

i can take pics if anyone needs them
thanks!!

EZrider
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

tmtmaats,

A free XB 600?? Lucky you! I think if you examine your wiring harness more (under the seat and under the dash) you will discover a 2nd fuse holder. My XB 508 came with 2 fuse holders (one for the dash and one for the motor). Most XB's are pretty similar in design, so you most likely find another one. One is small cylindrical unit, and the other is a black square box, a little larger than the other one. These things are pretty sturdy, even with a few shorts here and there. I'll stay tuned and help where I can.

Mike - Oregon XB-508 with after- market 800watt motor and 72V upgrade
(Thanks to Member tips on V is for Voltage!)

Buzzer
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

After you locate and check that second fuse, check to make sure the brake cables are working properly. Sometimes the brake levers seem to be working, but the cables are sticky. I squirt in graphite powder in and around the brake levers (pivot points, the portions of the cables that are exposed, etc.) and the pivot points at the opposite end of the cables, near the brakes themselves. Sometimes everything works on my XB-600 but the motor doesn't run, runs intermittently, or quits after I've made a stop. That's the tip-off that my brake cables need lubricating. If the cables are holding the brakes in the "on" position, that cuts power to the motor.

Buzzer

There are three kinds of people: Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

tmtmaats
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

Yea, the other fuse box, the one in the black square case. I checked that one too and the fuse looked fine. Just to be on the safe side though, I replaced it anyway. So its safe to say its not a fuse problem anymore.
Its the just the motor. I'll try the brake option soon to see if that makes a difference. I dont have graphite powder, so would just oil, or lubricant work? like WD-40?

So just asking again, is that the way to start it? Turn the key and the motor turns on and runs immediately? Or am I missing something?

thanks again

Buzzer
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

WD-40 will also work on the brake levers and cables. I've also used spray-on white grease; whatever was available at the time. A tube of powdered graphite from your local hardware store does the job and takes up very little space in the bike's storage compartment, that's why I use it. Yes, just turn the key all the way to the right, but don't expect to hear any kind of sound. Until you turn the throttle and the rear wheel turns, you won't know if the motor is working.

Buzzer

There are three kinds of people: Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

tmtmaats
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

ok, inspected brake cables today. they looked fine, and the brakes work. However, i sprayed some WD-40 over the joints just to be on the safe side. Put the key in the ignition and turned all the way to the right. Absolutely nothing. Moving the throttle does nothing, the rear wheel just stays there.
brake problem is ruled out.

any other ideas/suggestions?

Buzzer
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

If you haven't already done so, remove all the covers and check all the wiring, connectors and other visible electronic components for breaks, corrosion, or signs of melting or burning. Obviously, fix or replace anything that looks bad. Many parts can be purchased at Radio Shack, auto parts stores, motorcycle shops or ATV stores. If everything looks fine, then other people on this forum will need to jump in and make suggestions for testing other components, such as the controller, motor, throttle, etc. which would probably need to be purchased from X-Treme if they can't be repaired. Other than a sticky brake cable, some burnt out bulbs and a couple of flat tires, my XB-600 has run fine and been very reliable since I bought it at the beginning of last summer. Both my wife and I use it quite a lot for commuting to work and running errands around town. Sorry I can't be of more help, but my inability to fix anything is legendary in our household. The fact that I've been able to make the aforementioned minor repairs on my XB-600 is nothing short of miraculous, as far as my wife and two grown children are concerned.

Buzzer

There are three kinds of people: Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Eagleye45
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

Hey tmtmaats,

It looks like we are in the same boat. I Got my XB-600 last month, received new batteries 2 weeks ago. The bike worked great until I pulled apart some melted cables coming from the controller.

Everything but the motor works, just like you.

Please let me know when you figure it out and I'll do the same.

Good luck,

Eagleye

EZrider
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

Hey Guys,

Buzzers suggestion was definitely the one to try next. If the controller senses that you have either brake handle pulled (even slightly) the motor will not run (or start). Make sure they are all the way forward and the cable is not loose. And yes, once you have turned the key and the lights are on, the motor should turn when you twist the throttle.
Next step is to start by getting a copy of the XB 600 schematic. zerogas has reposted one here at the bottom of this page: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3712-xb600-wiring-diagram-groovy
Next I would examine the 3 wires coming from your throttle, and unplug the connector that connects it to the controller, examine the tabs inside then reconnect it securely. After that, examine all the motor wire connections. 3 large wires and 5 small ones. Unplug, examine and then reconnect all those wires. Beyond that point, it's time to open up your controller and examine the board for any obvious blown parts.
My thread on here: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/9897-72v-37mph-xtreme-xb-508
has links and info from both zerogas (who blazed the trail on XB 600 mods) and richardb who has an excellent page with diagrams and schematics (with voltages listed on the various wires coming from your controller).
Since your lights work when you turn the key, there really shouldn't be too much involved in getting it going again. Having more details on what caused it to stop working would really help narrow down what the problem is.

Mike - Oregon XB-508 with after- market 800watt motor and 72V upgrade
(Thanks to Member tips on V is for Voltage!)

Eagleye45
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

Thanks EZrider,

I've followed Buzzer's suggestion but to no avail. I never had a problem with the bike loosing power mid-ride, or any other time so I don't think the breaks (which I used an ample amout of WD-40 on) is the problem. Oddly enough, my breaks only kill the engine when I use the right one, FYI.

I've had the schematic (see below) and have studied it thuroughly.

When you say "examine the 3 wires coming from your throttle", where are these cables to be found and what color are they please?

I've examined the "3 large wires and 5 small ones", as well as opened the controller and looked for "blow outs", but will go back for a 2nd (3rd) look.

I'd like to take a moment to thank you all for your great posts! They really helped in deciding to buy the XB-600! Prior to buying I read 80% of the posts and since then, I've just about read it all.

Unfortunately Zerogas's pics of the shunt mod seem to be down. I'm looking forward to performing the mod, but without pictures, diagrams, or the like, I'm at a loss.

To answer EZrider's question on what caused it to stop; All I did was seperate the melted wires on the controller (Yellow, Red, Blue (worst of the lot), Black and Green). The wires were melted together, but no metal on metal. While the wires were melted together, the bike worked fine.

Thanks again for all your help,

Eagleye

mf70
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

Full res circuit diagram at:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/9938-xb600-wiring-diagram-12v-circuit

Oddly enough, my breaks only kill the engine when I use the right one, FYI.

This is significant; only the right brake is connected to the dynamic braking module in the controller. The circuit diagram identifies this line as a brown wire into a three-contact plug.
The dynamic braking works by feeding the electricity generated by rotation back to the windings.

Mark

EZrider
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

Hey Eagleye,

>"examine the 3 wires coming from your throttle", where are these cables to be found and what color are they please"

On my XB-508 they connect to the controller through a 3 wire connector and are Red Black and Green.

I see zerogas has just posted new pics of the shunt mod on the other XB 600 shunt thread, so if we can get him on this thread he would be the expert on the color coding for XB 600 wiring. I posted a message to him about his pictures being down on his threads.
When I started tracing down my wiring, I used tape I could write on and marked both sides of each connector, (brake, throttle etc.) once I had traced down what they were connected to. So to trace down which wires are connected to the throttle and other units, you will want to unscrew your dash assembly area to see the wires and trace what they connect to.
For example in cases where you see more than one green wire heading down the wiring harness back to the controller area in the rear, a quick way to tell on the other end is by looking at what cable it goes through. On mine all wires go through one of 4 large white cables that contain multiple wires of several colors. What makes them different is the number of wires contained inside each white cable. So if you see a green wire going into a 6-wire white cable, don't choose the green wire coming from the 8-wire white cable on the other end, choose the 6-wire. (Measuring with an ohm meter will confirm this.)
It's also helpful to print out your schematic and use colored markers to color each wire correctly as you trace them down. My dynamic braking also only works on the right brake, not sure about other XB models.
When you are trying to diagnose your system, you can disconnect the dynamic braking and the battery charger connectors just to make sure they are not shorted and the culprit causing the problem. Neither one are needed for the motor to spin.
Now to the melted wire situation. Do you know what caused that melting? Obviously something dicey occurred in the first place to cause that. Did it come from the factory that way?
My initial guess is the heat (as usual like when you solder) caused that wire to become brittle during the melting process, and when you broke them apart one or more of the wires broke inside. I would cut splice and replace the section of any melted wires. Finding out what item(s) the melted wires connect to is another important clue.

Mike - Oregon XB-508 with after- market 800watt motor and 72V upgrade
(Thanks to Member tips on V is for Voltage!)

tmtmaats
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

i had some time today to examine the scooter again. I took off the front cover (where the lights are), and the side cover where the fuses are. I couldn't see anything wrong with the wires. They all looked fine. So is there any specific way I can test just the motor, or the throttle?

Eagleye45
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

Hey EZrider,

Thanks yet again for all the help. Please send the link to Zerogas's re-posting of the shunt mod, I can't seem to find it.

Eagleye

Electromoto1
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

IM HAVING SOME SIMILAR ISSUES WITH MY XB600, DOES ANYONE HAVE THE CONTROLLER SCHEMATIC?
Thank you

Electromoto1
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

IM HAVING SOME SIMILAR ISSUES WITH MY XB600, DOES ANYONE HAVE THE CONTROLLER SCHEMATIC?
Thank you

mf70
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Re: Help with XB-600 scooter

Sorry, no one outside of China has the controller schematic. The scoot's wiring diagram, however, is fairly easily available.

Electromoto1
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Re: Help with EW600 scooter

dO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE EW600 by E/WHEELS? tHEY ARE SOLD AT HIGH5SCOOTERS, I am loking into purchasing one of these and would like to find a wiring diagram for it before i buy it. Anyone help?

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