Flea market find: a Razor e300 for $25
Today I visited my local flea market and picked up a real find. A used Razor e300 (or maybe e200, not sure) electric scooter with charger for the unbelievable price of $25.
The hitch was that the scooter didn't work when I tested it out. The seller originally wanted $30 but I bargained down to $25 because of its condition. The LED power lights came on, but it didn't move. The battery read full but no motor motion. I decided that for $25, I could part it out and still get my money back and so I bought it.
I came back home and the batteries were indeed dead. A little massaging from my higher-end Soneil 2408 charger and the batteries came back to life. They don't seem as though they have their full capacity, I'm doing an amp-hour test on them with my Watts-Up tonight.
I put in the SLA batteries from my Pocket Rocket and took it for a zip around the neighborhood. Lots of fun -- until a car pulls out in front of you. Still, you can only go 10-15 mph so there's limited trouble that you can get into. And even with the newer SLAs from the Pocket Rocket, my range was only around 3 miles.
I'm going to see what I can do to hop it up, perhaps use some NiMH batteries instead of SLAs.
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Re: Flea market find: a Razor e300 for $25
I hooked up my Watts Up and got a reading of 10 amps @ 24V under moderate motor stress. I'd really like to replace the motor with the MY1016 from my Pocket Rocket, which was getting 20 amps @ 24V. I tried to do the transplantation surgery, but it turns out that the motor on the e200/300 has a 8mm spindle and belt drive; while the Pocket Rocket has a 10mm spindle and chain drive. This made a simple transplant not feasible.
At no-load, the motor spins at about 3300 rpm and the back tire spins at 16 mph. I guess what I want more than speed (since the little thing is pretty dangerous @ 15 mph) is range. It'd be great if I could make it to work; recharge at my office; and get back home on this.
Even with a Prius, my gas bill is pretty expensive and I'd like to switch to just EV for my daily commute.
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev
Re: Flea market find: a Razor e300 for $25
Keep us posted on what you managed to do with it. It looks like an E200 because of the smaller tires. I'm curious what type of motor will fit in that size scooter. I'm especially interested to know if a motor like the powerpack brushless 1000W would fit in it.
http://www.powerpackmotors.com/
It would require a custom mount I'm sure. And you'd probably need the CW version (evdeals.com).
Could you at least post the dimensions and maybe a picture of the motor? I'm currently looking for a good base to build a small tricked out scooter with maximum torque. It needs to be small enough to carry on the bus but powerful enough to get me up a huge hill to my house.
Re: Flea market find: a Razor e300 for $25
I can post a picture of the motor in a little bit. It's an MY1016, almost exactly the same as the MY1016-B on my pocket rocket, but with an 8mm spindle with belt drive sprocket semi-permanently attached.
I'm pretty sure it's the one here:
250W Belt Drive Motor - 24 Volts (Model: MY1016) $26
Motor Parts - 106050
Shipping Weight: 5.5 lbs.
MY1016 24 Volt, 250 Watt Belt Drive Motor, 2650 RPM, 13.7 Amp, permanent-magnet motor.
# 13 tooth 5mm belt sprocket.
# 12 gauge power leads with standard 1/4'' push-in connectors.
Mounting bracket measures 4-1/2'' x 2-1/8'' with 4 threaded mounting holes.
http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES
Now, I think this is way underpowered for your needs. You should get at least a 500 watt motor (and they sell them in the MY1016 form factor) -- and that's what I plan on doing with my conversion (along with putting in NiMH batteries to make it lighter).
A PowerPack would be nice, eh? :-)
Karen
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev
Re: Flea market find: a Razor e200 for $25
Ya, this is definitely an E-200.
I upgraded batteries on an E-300. Spent $400 to deck it out with Lithium Manganese batteries. (Four of the 28V kind used with Milwaukee power tools.) The range is *great*, about 7.5 miles. And it weighs only 38.6 pounds. Charging solution was simple to set up since it's just the original Milwaukee rig. I tore down two chargers and put them in one little plastic case. Kinda lame, but it works. The batteries use only 3 connections when charging. I can be fully topped off in 1 hour, 45 minutes.
Notice it has a wood deck.
The deck is about 5/8" taller than stock in order to fit the batteries oriented sideways.
A view of the four charger connections (white molex), heatsink of the motor controller, and two heavy-duty 4PDT switches.
My custom charger, built from two (normally bulky) Milwaukee chargers. As you see, it can charge 2 of the 4 batteries at once.
I've now been over 1000 miles on this E-300, most of that with just 3 instead of 4 batteries in it. The 4th new battery at the left is a very recent addition. Back when it had 3 batteries in it I flew with it to both coasts, and even took it to Europe once. Perfect transpo. I use it pretty much daily. Finished it back when gas hit $3 a gallon. Was perfect timing.
For more info on the wiring and everything here's a somewhat detailed post from a little over a year ago when I had just finished the project:
http://modifiedelectricscooters.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36
(BTW, mentioned in the post in the link above, back when it had 3 batteries, I got 9 miles of range out of the scooter if I rode half-throttle at about 8mph, and when the batteries were new. After 6 months of lots of use, range had gone down to about 7.5 miles when riding 8mph. And only 5 miles if I rode full-throttle at 16-17 mph. I now only ride full throttle all the time, and with the 4th battery get about 7.5 miles of range.)
-Lorin
from Phoenix, AZ
Re: Flea market find: a Razor e200 for $25
Lorin -
Totally, totally, totally awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is exactly where I'd like to be. For me, Stage #1 is replacing the SLAs with 28.8V of 7.6Ah of NiMH batteries. I'm glad to hear that it seems like the little guy doesn't matter what his voltage is too much, I'm hoping!
Karen
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev
Re: Flea market find: a Razor e200 for $25
NiMH was originally the direction I was going to go, but due to weight and overall battery longevity I splurged for lithium. The cells are rated for 12Ah at 28V. I haven't done a discharge test to see how close they are to spec. But I know battery #3 is sagging, so I'm going to spend $100 and replace it.
After replacing battery #3 the setup should still last another 1500 cycles or so, which is about 7000 miles. At that point if I'm still as addicted to this ride then hopefully the next pack will be Altair's supposedly indestructible lithium titanate spinel.
Re: Flea market find: a Razor e200 for $25
I'm curious about the source of the Nimh batteries you are considering.
Re: Flea market find: a Razor e200 for $25
John -
I'm using 9.6V 3.8 Ah NiMH R/C racing batteries. A bank of 3 serial, 2 parallel makes 28.8V 7.6Ah. I'm not sure how I'm going to wire everything up yet.
I really want/need 12-15 Ah so that I can go to work and come back without charging, if need be (i.e., I forget something at work and need to head back immediately). On normal days, I'll leave a charger at work.
Karen
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev
Yup, the SLAs were dead.
Well, it looks like the SLAs that came with the e200 are pretty much dead. They only took me around the block once.
I did a low-wattage drain test with my Watts Up hooked up and I can just barely eek out 1.5 ~ 2.0Ah using a 100 watt bulb (@24V).
I'm going to hook them up to my Soneil for a few days to see if its pulse charging can't rehabilitate (desulfate) the batteries a little. Otherwise, at 2 Ah or less, they aren't much use to me in an EV. Maybe I'll dedicate them to bench test use.
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev
Re: Yup, the SLAs were dead.
After a test run this morning, I'm not sure if I will replace the MY1016 motor in the e200 with my Pocket Rocket's MY1016B. When I was riding up hill or in rough terrain, the e200 pulled a max of 23 amps (@24V), which is the same amount of amp draw that the Rocket's motor can handle. So essentially they are the same motor.
I think instead, I'll focus on replacing the batteries with NiMH and then maybe much later on, working on a more powerful motor. But I'd be afraid of going much faster than 10 mph on those little 4" wheels and rear hub brake.
Karen
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev
E-300 is more stable
The wide 10" wheels on the E-300 are better than the narrow tires on the E-200. So if this is becoming a daily driver for you, then maybe you should CraigsList the E-200 for $80 or so and pick up an E-300 instead.
Although if you do get started with this E-200 then I think the battery box and motor controller are similar, so in the future you could just trade the guts out to an E-300.
Re: E-300 is more stable
Lorint -
Yeah, I thought about that. I also tried transplanting the 10" wheels from my Pocket Rocket to the e200 but the wheel brackets are too narrow for the fatties to fit in. Phooeey.
The e200 is my fun-around-town bike until I can get my moped up and going. I might pick up an e300 at some point though -- it seems like these things are pretty addictive!
Karen
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev
Re: E-300 is more stable
Any idea how much that E200 weighs without the batteries? I'm trying to get a feel for how portable it would be with Lithiums or Nimh.
e200 weight
John -
I don't know exactly since I'm not close to a scale, but Amazon lists the shipping weight as 45.2 pounds with batteries and the box. So maybe you can consider that the box weighs around 3-5 pounds, so it's 40 pounds out of the box.
The batteries are 12V 7Ah each and again according to Amazon, weighs 16 pounds shipping weight.
40 - 16 = roughly 25 pounds, which feels 'bout right.
Karen
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev
Re: e200 weight
Some more testing -- I went to the post office with the e200 and my little doggy (~20lb) in a wire basket I clipped to the front. The trip is about a mile and totally flat. The e200 made it to the post office with the yellow low light on and by the time I headed back home was on its last legs. That gives me a real-world range of ~2 miles, which is really bad. :-(
This is with 7Ah rated batteries that I can usually yield a real-world 4 Ah out of. That means in order for me to go 4 miles (which would get me to work with a margin of safety), I'd have to double the amp-hourage. Phoooey.
Maybe I'll just keep the e200 in my office as my "zip out to grab a sandwich" mobile.
K
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev
Re: e200 range
Range with Pb-acid in the E300 never did impress me. But with lithium I got addicted. It was hundreds of dollars, but has turned out to be worth-it in the long run.
BTW, tire inflation makes a significant difference in total range. I keep mine (in the E300) at 45psi.
Re: e200 range
What I've noticed is that the drive belt is rubbing slightly against the sidewall of the rear tire. I think I'll open it up and put in some washers as spacers to separate the drive belt pulley more from the tire. Bad design. I'll also check the inflation, thanks for the tip!
Working on a Piaggio Boxer (mo-ped) EV conversion: http://gpsy.com/ev