BL-36, enhancements to standard system

Randy, thanks for you advice about balancing the batteries.

So, what did you end up doing to the female RCA connectoron the pack and/or what did you do the plug on the charger? The 36V 3amp charge has a male RCA connector...

Just curious, should I buy a new connector to replace the RCA connector on my battery pack to couple with the new 48v charger's connector sold by BernsonEV and what connector/gender would I buy?

Also, was there any mention of an ideal battery arrangement to the pack on the rack?

I saw a picture of a bike and it's rack having a wood or cardboard enclouser on top of it and then I saw the standard 36V bag on top of that... What was that about?

Thanks,
Danny

super, i use connectors called "deans ultra connectors"...ther made for the rc hobby...ther used in my other hobby, rc if i remember they suppost up to 100amps and have gold plated plugs, for allmost zero loss. they can fount at any rc hobby store. i highly recomend them, if ya cant find let me know ill link ya. my batterys are on top of a 1/4in ply just for support, just sitting two and two behind.....i can post photos if need be. i use the 36volt bag for the charger and tools....it was to nice to throw away, lols. randy.

super, these are the connectors i use.....to me they're tops.
when ya cut the charger cord, one of the wires is totally useless. slap the volt meter when plugged in....take precautions to not short wires, i use tape....when ya get a plus voltage you will know what to solder. also the horizontal ultra plus is always your plus....any ques feel free.....randy.

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in the second photo, the top prong is the positive one.....

I am sorry but I can't tell from the previous posts, if I understand correctly you have a BL36 running of 48V right? Did you say how fast it goes? I just got a BL36 and I am thinking about a 4th batt for 48V but I don't want to blow up my controller ( already the charger that was sent doesn't shutoff when it is supposed to ). I can do about 21-22 if I pedal wiht but the pedalling ins real easy.

To hakujin. Unfortunately a lot of the chargers that come with the kit crap out. I got mine repaced on warranty quicklly with no problem. Then I turned around a broke it right away, riding carrying it on too bumpy a road. I really like the 4 amp one I got at monsterscooterparts. Twice as fast. Once in a while the controllers go bad, but it seems not that often, and not any more often than other brands. It seems to be just the occasional bad fet or capacitor when that happens. From what I have gathered from reading everything I could find, it seems that if you get a bad controller, you pretty much find out in the first two weeks or so of riding. The bad ones blow pretty quick. So if you have a hundred miles or so on the bike with no problems, you have a good controller that can most likely take 48 volts for a long period with no problems.
One thing I found out about 48 volts, you don't get much more range if you now go faster. If you need more range, you will have to still ride at the old slower speed.

Taddyangle, let us know how your setup does for range, and at what speed? At 48 volts my BD36 still only had a range of about 9 miles, but at 48 volts I was going 29 mph. We know the range they talk about in the ads is not going fast. If you get the 12 miles no problem, that is good info for us to know. For us to get used to leaving the car at home, we don't want to be riding 10 mph more than a coulple miles.

Yeah the charger is definitely hosed. I have to watch it and turn it off when the batts start to warm up. About adding one more battery is for speed. I have a 3 mile ride to work with only a steep pedi bridge to climb up. I have gone more than 13 miles on the 36v system and I am sure I could have got much farther. Now I am just studying up on batteries and charging systems. I am an eletronics technician of sorts (I fix medical equipment) so I have access to some advanced test equipment. Right I am looking at charging my batts until I get my new charger in parallel with a benchtop dc power supply. I have tested it out on a set of batts with the same specs and it seemed to work out well. I also have a computerized battery tester so I can tell if I have waxed my batts with the defective charger.

I doubt you have waxed em, maybe just shaved a few cycles of em. Do whatever it takes to charge, it beats the heck out of leaving em dead to sulphite. I was hooking up to 10 amps dc from my generator for a week till my new charger arrived. Fortunately there are lots of cheap replacement chargers out there. On a 3 mile ride, your batteries are going to last forever anyway. You'll be discharging about 25% or something, At that rate you'll get about 3 years.

That is heartening. The benchtop dc power supply I have however is limited to 3A at a max of 20V so I will have to charge my batteries in parallel so it will be just a trickle charging all 3 batteries at once. It will probably take all night but from what I have read concerning SLAs and charging that may actually increase the number of charge cycles I get out of them. When they speak of charge cycles they are talking about from full empty to full charge right? So if I only go 3 miles between charging them up that would not be considered a charge cycle right? This kit was an investment intended to save money and cut down on driving so I am think about how often I will have to buy new batterypacks.

this is the charger i got for my 48v system.....works great.
http://www.bernsonev.com/generic-charger-model-2230amp-115230-input-voltage-p-717.html
just cut and use the connection of your liking.....i like deans ultra's. also next week i get back to work.....i will be doing some mileage range tests with the brushless....9 miles is my furthest as of yet.....im thinking 20 miles will be the number when said and done.....i will report back with the facts when i know for sure.....randy.

There are lots of inexpensive chargers out there in the 1.5 to 2 amp range. Ebay has some decent deals. I really like a 4 amp one I got from mosnsterscooterparts, but its 36 volt. Eventually you will be able to afford one. rate of charge won't be a big isuue.
Usually on lead acid tests they will not discharge 100% but to some predetermined low voltage. A charge discharge cycle is a cycle, but you will get a ton more of them out of shallow cycles since sulphation will be minimal.

Hey at least you made it home. With my 12 mile uphill ride home, I never made all the way with my BD36, even when I went to 48 volts. I've got a really steep hill home. With experience you will get further, learning to take it a bit slower on the ride home. And the batteries may improve after they break in. If your low battery light did not come on I wouldn't worry about it too much. Your batteries should still last quite awhile. Later you can get lifepo4 or ev grade B&B slas.

My rough calculations show my BD36 eating 2.2v per mile out of my 7ah SLA at full speed. You are obviously drawing far less.

I believe at 48v you are also drawing more current (amps) than at 36v so that's why the batteries run out faster.

I wish someone had weighed the BL36 motor (plus wheel) as I am curious how heavy it is compared to the BD36. I weighed my BD36 but I cannot remember anymore if it was 13lbs or 18lbs. I think 13lbs?

I have gone over 13 miles on my 36v BL-36 and I could have gone farther. I tried out another batt in series and worked great. I got up to 26 mph on flat ground. Pedaling does no good anymore as I can't keep up with motor. the batt was borrowed so I ordered another and Now I just need a charger. I found out charging SLAs in parallel at 12v is bad because if one has decreased capacity they will charge to that decreased capacity.

Mine is a BD, so I can't speak to that; but when I added an extra battery I just bought a cheap charger at a thrift store and left it at work to charge the extra battery and kept using (and carrying) the 36v charger that came with the kit for the original pack. At 48v the kit was pushing my recumbent at 25mph, but at 14+ miles each way (and chargeing at work) even with moderate pedaling and holding off to 20 mph I got less than 100 cycles on the 12ah before my severe overdischarging wasted the pack. I'm going to try 18ah this year (my sad tale of woe is on the broken controller thread). Apparently the horror stories about depth of discharge are true.
-BothellBob

I have found tons of info on battery charge algorithms (how you sould charge your batts). Basically fast charge is bad. It will reduce the useful life of your batteries. I you were to trickle charge them at night when you had time (it takes about 12 hours) they would probably last a lot longer. Of course you can't do that at work Cause you need them sooner. I just ordered a fourth battery and charger. I borrowed one from our shop to test and my bike will do 26 on flat ground. I can't even keep up with the pedalling anymore. May be I can get a bigger crank...........

The basic problem with sla's is we all end up quilty of overdischarging them since nobody lives 5 miles or less from work. If I was that close, Id have been riding my vintage motobecane to work 6 years ago. But I would not really be wanting to carry 18ah of lead, especially at 48 volts. If you want range and are willing to carry 60 pounds put a generator and a golf cart charger on a trailer. Seriously though, lithium is cheap if you are getting 100 cycles. That would be new batteries every 10 weeks for me.

I only live 3 miles from work. I know I am lazy but I am saving gas, air pollution, and a parking space. I also ride around on trails and to the store. As far as Lithium goes I have not been able to find a 48V pack for under $600 not to mention I would have to buy a new charger. I will have to see how long these SLA's last and then I will think about getting a lithium pack (I mean think about how I can talk my wife into letting me buy it :) ). With 4 SLAs on my rig though it stills hauls at 26 MPH. I don't feel the extra weight at all and now even at times I have to back off the throttle. I didn't have to do that at 36V.

When the BL36 says it's motor is 600 watts, does that mean it can only go as fast as 36 v * 15amps will push.. But if 48 volts works for these controllers, and the capacitors are rated for 63v, what's stopping us from using 5 batteries in serial. Is this doable? I did a voltmeter on 4 batteries and got a 60 volt reading (15 v * 4). If I put 5 in series that may create 75 volts (15 * 5).

What would happen to the BL36 motor with voltage upto 72volts using a controller that supports 72volts?

What makes those pheonix motors so fast? More wire windings?

I haven't been riding these last two days... It's so hot outside, it's 98 degrees... I hope I don't flake out everyday because it's so hot.

Others have done more than 48 volts on the stock controller with the bd, for awhile, then pow. You will need a better controller to go 72. The motor should handle it, but the motor could get too hot climbing really big hills. The Big x5 clytes are about ten pounds heavier, and larger diameter. This helps the motor produce less heat for the power. More heat = less usable power as resistance rises, just like too small an extension cord gets hot. If you want to go 72 volts and climb big mountains, get a gear motor or the big chrystalite. If you want to go fast for short rides, go for it.

If your controller allows 20 amps, at 48 volts, thats 960 watts. the bd motors are made to run at 600, so its good that it doesn't put out 960 watts all the time. As you get up to speed, the actuall amps draw will level out much lower than that on flat ground. Climbing a hill, it may stay that high the whole time, and increase more as the motor gets hot. Guys with the cycleanalyst know a lot more about this than me. But I can feel it on a long straightaway, the motor will slowly gain a bit more speed, as it gets to its "happy" rpm, where the juice is used more efficiently. At the happy rpm the motor makes less heat and more motion.

It's not hot at all today, cooled off all the way to 101. Its amazing how much real bike shorts and jersey help. And cops looking at me expect me to haul beans dressed like that.

Well I got my 4th batt and I installed it waiting on the charger but I go such a short distance that I can charge them idividually with a bench top PS. I am no sure I want ot go faster than 26MPH and even if i did there is no more room for batts on my bike. The thing has got to weigh 600 hundred pounds by now. BTW does anyone else have sort of a rubbing sound when starting out? Once I get up to speed it's fine but it is a little loud when I take off. I am worried the motor might be going bad.

It's not hot at all today, cooled off all the way to 101. Its amazing how much real bike shorts and jersey help. And cops looking at me expect me to haul beans dressed like that.

lols, dogman....funny stuff, ya made my day, lols.....

I have a question regarding the BL vs BD

if both are going @ 25mph (BL @48v and BD @36v), which one will get better mileage? I'de like to go 25mph for 20 miles, includeing a 2 mile stretch uphill.

at 25 mph the BL will go farther, it is more efficient, and also is carrying one more battery so the total watthours avaliable is more. BD will climb the hills better, if they are killer type hills. Niether one will make it on the 12 ah lead batteries. 20 miles is 20 ah lithium territory unless you ride 5 mph or something. Once you get out to about 16 miles, you are using the litium pretty hard too, It's best to buy extra battery capacity even though it is expensive in lithium. I see it as too expensive to abuse.

Are you sure the Bl wont make 20 miles? I have gone 13+ with no slow down whatsoever on mine And that was up down hills on a bike trail. The Bernsonev.com website says 30+ range on the BL-36.

hey tad, i was cheacing out your rack real close.....i see its a seatpost style. mine goes and hooks up on the bottom of the frame.....my question is is your rack real robust?? strong?? i dont like mine hooked like it is, as i can see them small screws shearing .......aslo after 3 weeks vacation, i will back to work monday.....i will try to ride as the weather allows for, and will try to get more data on hub and controller temps on 48v. also i will try to hammer down mileage on the so smooth brushless. my one way trip is 3.5mi. anyone think it will hurt to not charge at work, and just let rest for 8hrs.?? like drive ther....3.5mi.....let rest for 8hrs.....drive home 3.5mi.....let rest 15hrs.....ride next day 3.5mi....this will be the only way i can check the mileage....peace, randy.

Any time you do not charge a Lead Acid battery after use, you are causing damage to the plates. Lead Acid batteries do NOT like to be left in a discharged state even for a short time and the battery pack will slowly loose range, the ability to hold a full charge. I would NOT do what you purpose, it can only lead to battery degradation in the near future.

If you want to check mileage caluculate the amount of watt hours(WH) used to go the 3.5 miles you ride. Then you can get the watt hours per mile. To calculate the watt hours available from you battery pack multiply the Voltage by the AH then by the percent discharge you would want to use, say 50%.

Example: 36-volt 12AH battery pack. 36v x 12AH x.5 (50%)= 216 WH

If your bike uses 10 WH per mile then the bike can travel about 21.6 Miles. (this gives only an estimate but it should be very close)

Grandpa Chas S.

I haven't heard of BL 36 going 20 miles at full throttle, 20 mph from anybody I can remember. It might be possible at 48 volts, and no huge hills. I just don't recall any reports of doing 20 miles on one charge regularly. A little wind at the back on a given day and you can go miles further, a little at the front and you are dead meat. All kinds of claims exist, usually from rides at slower speeds. At walking speed, you can go a loooooong way. Peukerts effect at full throttle is pretty bad, so you may only get 6 ah out of a 12 ah lead battery if you run hard. Let us know folks out there if I'm wrong. Don't forget, 100% discharge on lead batteries, is asking for less than 50 cycles. To get 200 you need to leave 20-30% in the battery every cycle. Once that battery light goes on, you are abusing the battery, though you may be able to go 2 or 3 miles further. All my range figures are given to the battery light going yellow, at full throttle all the way. It's how very many of us ride. At 48 volts, you may make 20 miles, but I don't think you will at 25mph. Maybe at 15 though. For me 15 is a crawl since I ride about 25-30 miles daily.