electric motorcycle project

Sounds good, but be careful about not having a cover plate on the end of the motor. The chain will pick up and blow in fine metallic particles that'll get picked up by the motor. It's not as bad as it would be with a permanent magnet motor, but still not good. Might want to have at least a cover for it machined.

Holy smokeys! Big motor, big axle, lots of inertia, you'll need a nuclear reactor on this thing to make it do what it wants!!

Be sure to post vids!

Karen

HI JY,

As a little back ground about me, in the past I got (2) motocross, one Honda CRF-230 (2005), and one Yamaha WRF-450 2006! So the point is a DT100 is really under power for you and for me (I weight 220 lbs) it's about the same of a CRF-230 and may be less. The Yamaha WRF450 is pop up wheelie machine, and a rocket hill climbing machine.

I agree with you a bigger tire gives better traction to climb any hills, but you still need a lot of Amps and volts to climb the same hill with this bigger tire. As rule of the Thumb the speed of any electric motorcycle is about the same as is voltage, in this case around 25 Mph.

To climb this hill you need a lot of watt/hour but you don't have a lot of watt/hours and 1500 Watts/746 Watts= around 2 HP. So is really painful for this bike to climb this hill no doubt about that. Even If you gear this motocross for 15 to 20 Mph I'm not sure you can climb this hill. The ETEK-R I use as 6 HP continuous and around 20 HP peak. My motocross is more powerful than my "old" CRF-230 to climb any hill until a reach 45 Mph, but on a sand hill is another story with this narrow tire, yes it spin more.

My goal is to help to do not make the same mistakes I have made, and now you are really wasting your time and money, sorry to say that but is a fact. The present set up is wrong from the start motor to heavy too big, under power (24 volt), big tire, heavy batteries. I don't know how many Zero X we have in 25 years, but one thing for sure, 3 years, ago an electric motocross, like Quantya, Zero X, Electricmoto and mine, are impossible to ride with that kind of range we have now, and the batteries (Lithium) are better and better every year!.

Like you said if your goal is to build something that no else as done before. Go with the 72 volt set up, build this nice 72 Volt motocross, this way you impress everyone, you, your kids, neighbors, and you don't work for nothing. This electric CR-250 with a Perm132 at 72 Volt (34 HP peak) climb this hill without difficulty and it will quicker than your XT-350 (31 HP peak).

Have a nice day!
Brutus361

HI JY,

Cool project follow this link :

http://www.evdrive.com/Emoto_project/moto_project.html

Have a nice day!
Brutus361

Don't listen to 'em JY....weld and forge ahead ! Besides, just imagine how fast this beast will go DOWN the hill! That will surely give you white knuckles!

Phil

As for money. I have lots of money. The first million was the hardest to get. Having fun is not a waste of money or time. I appreciate you trying to help me avoid your mistakes, but I did say "learning from experience." Not your experience, but my experience.

*spits out imaginary coffee*

*sputterlolwut* First million? There's more than one? Nice! *hi-five*

Hmmm Link. This sprocket cover will be a collection point for dirt and metal to end up in the unprotected motor. How about a paper thin mylar shield on the housing face? Thank God you havent abandoned me... yet?

That'll be fine. Just something to keep the inside of the motor from attracting debris.

Abandon? What? With all the time I have on my hands? Though I'll have a few hours less free time after tomorrow. School starts. :( *tear*

Hi JY,

A golf cart goes at 10 or 15 Mph as is best? And believe me I never try to climb a sand hill with it even with big canopy tire. You want to repeat the same mistake I made is your choice you have time and money to do it go ahead!.

The brainstorm is yes you can climb this hill with those parameters, if you gear it down for a top speed of 10 to 15 Mph.

But I let you make you own mistakes in the future, good luck!
Brutus361!

Money is overrated my friend. According to our next president (unfortunately), McCain defines "rich" as having 5 million dollars. I'm not rich. The difference between rich and poor... The poor worry about getting some the rich people's money and the rich worry about getting more of the poor people's money.

Hmm, perhaps, but a mil is a lot more than I've got. Granted, working an after-school job 15 hours a week doesn't help. :P

Ah, well. It feeds my hobbies for now.

As smart as you are, you must be in college? I'm curious about your disclaimer? Have you had legal problems with your advice in the past?

GOD I wish I was in college. Really I do. I'm just starting my senior year of high school. The fact that there are no classes available to hold my interest (save for a few electives and math is okay) doesn't help. English? Give me a break. I can appreciate being able to communicate effectively, but, come on. I really don't think anybody cares if I know the difference between independent and dependent clauses or if I end a sentence with a preposition.

LOL, no. Mik was musing over some sort of disclaimer relating to his adventures with the Vectrix/Vectux, and I spat out something similar. I kind of liked it for some reason, so I added a few ridiculous things to it (hereditary disease, addiction, etc.) and stuck it in my sig.

A golf cart goes at 10 or 15 Mph as is best? And believe me I never try to climb a sand hill with it even with big canopy tire. You want to repeat the same mistake I made is your choice you have time and money to do it go ahead!

True, true, but a golf cart also has to haul around hundreds of pounds of 6V lead batteries, a huge frame, and up to four potentially fat people, plus their clubs and whatever else they drag along. And it has to do it for a few hours at a time. I think he could get away with 25-30mph without much issue.

Where do you come up with 10 to 15 MPH on this setup?
The motors rating is 4200 RPM at 48 volts
With 10:51 sprockets and an 80.1" circumference tire and even at only 24 volts-2100 RPM I come up with

2100 / 5.1 = 411.7647 wheel RPM x {(25.5 x 3.14159) = 80.110545" circumference} = 32,986.694" per minute / 12 = 2748.8911 feet per minute x 60 = 164922.46 / 5280 =

31.237 MPH

At 36V-3150 RPM its 46.85 MPH

At 48V-4200 RPM its 62.47 MPH

Am I doing my calculations wrong?

Why do I need to gear it down to 15 MPH?

Thanks Brutus,
JY

You don't. You've got 9.6kW to play with assuming a 400A controller. Since it has so much thermal mass, 30mph shouldn't be too hard on the motor, even with a fairly heavy bike. Looks like the stock gearing is about perfect. Still, check how hot it's getting every so often during testing. Always a good idea.

Be good in school young man

Okay, DAD. *rolls eyes*

Ok JY,

Let's see, a friend of mine has RM-250 2001 with a blow out motor. I just have to strip it down, put a GE motor like yours on it.

After all this entire motocross is lighter than your CR-250, I will modify my batteries pack for 29.4 volt (full charge) 25.9 Volt (nominal), 90 A (around 900 Amps peak). With this motocross, I can go at 30 MPH and i'm able to climb any hills with this version, if i do the same as you do right ?

No, no I have a better idea, I will add enough cells and I made a new 48 volt 90 Ah batteries pack and I can go at 62.47 MPH, it's a dream came true a full size motocross with a top speed of 100 Km/h wow. And with this batteries pack weight only 80 pound !. But wait, why no one as made an electric motocross like this before you, please feel free to explain it!

JY Go back to EV album, the fastest, motorcycle or motocross, are the lightest one, the others perform like a Sherman Tank, they are generally slow and heavy!.

JY Believe me, if your Sherman tank is working like you have describe, I will buy this RM-250, but a Sherman tank is working like a tank!

Link: you are really a good guy, you are really impressive but how many motorcycle (except ebike) you have built so far?

Good day!
Brutus361

assuming a 400A controller

I have my eye on a 24V-36V/275A to start with and then a 36V-48V/600A for phase 3.

Any good controller will be programmable. Get a higher amp (400-600) and them just program it to max at 200-300 for now.

What is an Etek-Ace? Any good?

A what?

No, no I have a better idea, I will add enough cells and I made a new 48 volt 90 Ah batteries pack and I can go at 62.47 MPH, it's a dream came true a full size motocross with a top speed of 100 Km/h wow (on paper). But why no one as made an electric motocross like this before you, please feel free to explain it!

'Cause aerodynamics eats watts like candy at those speeds. An approximation I use is that you need 10 times the power to get double the speed, and that's on the flat.

And, in theory, that would actually work. It would be a slug trying to get up to speed, though, and I wouldn't try taking it up even the gentlest of inclines.

Link: you are really a good guy, you are really impressive but how many motorcycle (except ebike) you have built so far?

And so I am exposed! I've never even ridden a real motorcycle, let alone built one. I don't even have a license.

I've got no comeback for that one. :P

Link,

The questions I was asking are for JY don't put those words in his mouth please, thank you! And I know you can make a great motocross or motorcycle for an older friend Link or for you later. But in this case 30 mph top speed, with a great climbing ability I don’t believe in this!.

Don't forget one important point Link this motocross is for off road riding most of the time, and the theory you give is for a motorcycle on a paved road. Faster speed eat's amps like candy for sure and even more on a motocross trail, it's happen every day with my motocross!.

Good Day!
Brutus

Hey JY, Commence with the welding already! With all the comentary I almost forgot what your building! CR250, GE motor, (2) Wet 125 amp deep cycles and stock CR250 tire or is it trike now? I got a 69' Mustang sedan with a 70' 351 Cleveland 4BM, 4 speed sitting in the back garage. Last drive 10 years ago. Going to rebuild some day.

I'll give him 100 bucks for it. Same price I paid for the CR. But he will have to take it all part and ship it to me in little boxes. I will pay the shipping and even give you a $10 finder's fee Brutus

JY thank you, what a nice offer, but after a small talk to my friend is prefer to sold his motocross in pieces on EBay, better luck next time!.

Brutus, I will sell you mine for $1500. I just bought it for $150. It's brand new. (Free shipping too! This is how you get rich Link. Take notes. But don't tell the customer (aka sucker) how much you paid for it.)

JY I'm really sorry, I already ordered a Agni 95 Reinforced motor from Cedric Lynch, yes he as invented the pancake motor (more efficency than a cart golf motor). With this motor I'm able to go at 110 Km/h, and it cost less than 1500 $ :)

How many minutes and/or seconds does it actually run at 62MPH before having to recharge it?

JY a Sherman tank is able to doing it? more than your heavy motocross for sure!

JY guess what, I'm not bothering you anymore with this project, and have fun! }:)
Brutus

A what?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330266114718

Ah. I have no idea what that "Ace" is supposed to mean. It's one of the old Eteks. They made two case designs: The flatter one you see most commonly, and the one made to bolt to a golf cart transmission like you see in the link. It's a good motor. I'd snag it if it goes for around $300. And it might, considering the extra ring around the axle and splined shaft makes it harder to use on anything other than a golf cart transmission.

The new Mars motors ("Etek-R/RT") are selling for $450 and $500, respectively.

Get a higher amp (400-600)

Okay

Oh yeah, if it doesn't mention that it's programmable, then it's not. Anything positive like that makes good ad copy, so it's virtually never left out. The models in the Alltrax AXE line are programmable, and I believe all of Kelly's models are, too. Curtis also makes programmable ones of good quality, but I think they're a bit pricier than the competition. Not sure if you need a special adapter for them to program via PC, though.

Tomorrow I assemble the motor and housing. 60 pounds mounted on the swingarm might be too much?
But that would give me more room for batts up front.

Prolly not good for the joint. I don't think anyone's tried bolting anything bigger than an Etek (22lbs) to the swingarm. A jackshaft would be much easier on the joint, and given the weight of this thing already, I don't think that needs any more stress.

How was school Olive oil?

WTF why do I have to be the chick? D:

Also it's "Oyl", and school was boring except for one of my teachers who has a fairly thick Vietnamese accent. Hearing her ranting on about how this one guy needs to be quiet or she's going to ring the ding dong berr (which is freakin' loud, BTW) and it'll scare the guinea pigs and they'll die from shock and it's going to be all his fault was the funniest thing I've seen in a LONG time. Most of the students couldn't even understand what she was saying because she was talking so fast, but I have a Vietnamese step-grandma and I was crying I was laughing so hard.

Then I found a wallet walking home with like $80 in it. I tried to steal it, really, I tried, but I just couldn't so I checked the guy's driver's license to see where he lived and then left it under his doormat. -_-

I say put it on the swing arm....cr250 frames are built like tanks (er sorry). Just don't do any 30' jumps with it....you may not have adequate suspension travel and the monoshock rebound my be compromised by the 60 lb motor.

Prolly not good for the joint. I don't think anyone's tried bolting anything bigger than an Etek (22lbs) to the swingarm. A jackshaft would be much easier on the joint, and given the weight of this thing already, I don't think that needs any more stress.

The Lectra uses a big motor on the swing arm. My lectra has an Advanced DC A89 (6.7") on the swing arm.

http://visforvoltage.org/blog/reikiman/3118

I've heard people say .. unsprung weight on the swing arm does nasty things to handling. Well, that A89 motor is big as can be and the Lectra handles perfectly well. But then they did design the Lectra specifically to be an electric and specifically to have a big motor on the swing arm. So maybe they were able to design around the unsprung weight issue.

...Hey Reikiman, I missed you. Thanks for coming back. (JY wipes brown stuff off his nose) I sure like your Lectra. You must have seen this one http://www.evalbum.com/446 Looks like your Advanced DC A89 6.7 is just a little lighter than mine, 50 lbs. And, its mounted on street suspension. Thats very reassuring.
...

That's actually the same bike -- I bought it from Lawrence 2 yrs ago. So, yeah, I'm intimately aware of that bike.

It will be alot of weight on the swingarm, almost 60 pounds. But, the weight will be on the tire and not on the frame or suspension. Plus, its much simplier to mount, no jackshaft, no tensioners, no idlers, much shorter chain, more room in frame to make the battery mounts narrower and/or mount more batteries, chain is easily tightened and loosened by the OEM wheel adjusters. The pros may out way the cons?

Since Reikiman got away with it with a similarly heavy motor, I guess it's worth a shot. You can always move it if it proves too cumbersome.

It may also be better to center the sprocket more between the bearings to more evenly distribute the radial load? As well as allow the mounting of the motor to be more centered over the swingarm.

Probably a good idea. The bigger bearing looks like it can take more than the other one, anyway.

Age has its privledges. Since you can spell it correctly, you have to be the girl.

Too funny.. ding dong berr lol

Did you leave a note with your name and phone number?
A good man does the right thing even when no one is looking. Well done.

Psh...W/E...

No, I didn't. It's not like I wanted anything for it.

Nice guys finish last. :P

Speaking of controllers...
Frodus wrote:

Series (controllers) are for series applications. Sepex is a more complex type of motor, because you can overspeed it, and reverse it on the fly. There are curves that interract between the field and armature to get it working.

But what happens if:
A series wound motor is run with a permanant magnet controller?
Or, a non-regen series wound motor is run with a regen controller?
Or a series wound motor is run with a late model CC IQ controller like a Curtis MODEL #1510-5201?

A series uses the same type of controller as a PM. They both take a DC source, so all the controller does is PWM the signal to limit power.

Hmm...I'd suspect it would be like trying to use regen on a PM motor that's stopped, so nothing would happen.

I believe that controller is a shunt-wound (aka sepex)? Well, I would have thought it would have worked like a normal sepex (though possibly not as well), but I guess frodus would know better...? :?