I believe that I have today set a new Real World Range Record on the Vectux.
To the best of my knowledge the highest reported range so far had been 81.95km by Buzby.
The Vectux managed to get to 82.7km today. Don't confuse that with useful range, though.
The last few km it was literally crawling, but got there without pushing or feet on the ground.
I have used the best local spot within battery range for the ride and chose a day with favorable conditions.
But the result should be able to be beaten, because of significant undulations in the terrain and a pay load of 111kg, including disk lock, 30m 15A extension lead, RCD, ABCool, water, chocolate and my usual backpack full of gizmo's!
Mr. Mik
Here is the start of the ride video:
Mr. Mik
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
Average speed during the run?
- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
For my 50 miles range, the GPS told me my average speed was 27mph. Today, I purposely kept it under 25 and got to 53mps, so there appears to be consistency, although again, on getting to 5 miles est range left, it droipped to zero some half-a-mike from base, but I was still able to reach speeds of 20mph with the battery warning light on for the last half-mile. (the plus side... no pushing!).
- Raymond
Congratulations! You hold the Real World Record again!
I knew I had to be fast to post this, hence the lack of details in the report so far.
The Vectux had it's nine hours of fame....
Mr. Mik
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
When the battery was still full enough I kept the top speed at 40km/h on flat ground;
let is coast as fast as it goes downhill;
and kept the amps to about 10% on the uphill parts, using the RETAMPI to slow down as much as needed.
This video shows the dash during the steepest uphill part:
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The next video shows the coasting down in the opposite direction on the same hill, reaching a top speed of 58km/h. Not exactly flat!
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Once the battery was flattish, the approach changed. I stayed closer and closer to the rest area with the power point, in the end just going across the fairly level bridge.
More later as I get around reviewing / editing the videos.
Mr. Mik
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
There's a UK dealer selling machines on eBay, and in they're description they (give a good precis of the caveats - speed vs range - and they suggest a range of 58 miles per charge. Now, I'm not near that (yet) bur from the experience I and others have had, it doesn't seem an unreasonable claim to make.
Hopefully as more of us push our machines to their limits we'll get a definitive mpc/kmc figures, however I find it very difficult with a full charge and a promised of 50+ miles to keep the speeds down so I get the hoped-for range, you think nothing of (silently) roaring off at traffic lights when a more gradual take-pff might keep those range miles higher!
- Raymond
What is the terrain like where you did the ride? Is it totally flat?
Mr. Mik
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
This video (with two photos at the end) was taken when the first buSVLt appeared at 72.2km into the ride.
It happened on an uphill part, but not on the steepest one shown earlier.
By that time I was already turning around halfway up on the first small hill from the "recharging station".
I kept the amps below 10% of the maximum as before as you can see on the RETAMPI display, but got the warning nevertheless.
Because I released the throttle immediately it did not turn into a BALPOR at that point.
From then on I kept even closer to the recharging station to avoid an early BALPOR.
The main reason for this range test on flattish ground was to determine if the disappearing bars syndrome could be avoided that way.
More later.
Mr. Mik
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
Yes, that is very interesting.
Your investigations are very informative. Thank you for doing that.
Have you tried what someone here suggested/posted (he got that info from the dealer)? Run the battery empty as much as you can on a flat terrain. So much empty, that if you max out the throttle, the bike won't move anymore.
Then keep the throttle open at max for at least 10 seconds, so that the software resets it's zero point.
Hi
I talk to Vectrix Corp store the other day , They said that buSVLt happens with about 4 bar at full throttle . that is about where it happens to me . Mik is that about what your finding ?
And as for Mik zero set point . it most be good as he has gone the longset ditance on a charge.
Happy riding , Herb
No - I live in a gentle valley, and although there are some hills up to 1000ft, the inclines are pretty small... not quite Amsterdam, but little opportunity to coast down inclines.... Today, I went for speed instead, and flattened the battery inside 19 miles....
- Raymond
As you can see in the above video, on my Vectux buSVLt appears at WAY less than full throttle with 4 bars left.
Buzby holds the record and his Vectrix was still reaching a speed of 32.2km/h at the end.
You'll see how slow the Vectux was at the end, when I get around to edit the video (lengthy process, it cannot be uploaded to Photobucket "as is" because the file size is too big).
I spent pretty much all day at this spot, first cooling the batteries after the ride there, then recharging, then riding 82.7km really slowly, then recharging, then back home. It's the flattest piece of road with an easily accessible power point around here.
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In the photo below you can see the bridge on the left side. That is the "arena" for the last few kilometers, it's downhill from there to the power point in the middle of the photo! (Click on photos to enlarge them.)
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Here is a small part of the first video in this thread, it shows the riders view of the bridge during my first pass over it:
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AndY: This is when it resets the zero point! The throttle does not need to be fully open etc. to cause a BaLPoR.
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I think this is conclusive proof that it is not possible to drain the last three bars on my Vectux without experiencing a BALPOR.
I'll have to bite the bullet and examine that battery closer for the cause of this behavior and maybe to find a fix.
Because there seem to be more members with NiMH battery expertise on Endless Sphere than on V, I've started
posting this one on ES.
Mr.Mik
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
I haven't realised I've been doing this until I looked at my weekly distance logs, but when I REALLY need the max range, I start the days riding at what most will assume is very slow (25mph and lower). As I return home, I use the distance available as a guide to increase speeds, so that my arrival at home will equate to the power running out with 5 miles or less to go. This removes the difficulty of using up all the range at the start, then limping home, and sometimes not making it!
This particular mindset means it is easy to squander the available distance at the expense of getting home beforfe that heavy rain cloud heading my way!
- Raymond
Buzby, I think I do the same thing without realizing it.
During the first half of the battery I am typically very aware if my efficiency. I try to ride at a steady speed, coast when I see a red light, etc. So I typically get much higher range for the first 8 or 9 bars.
During the 2nd half of the battery I am typically on the way home or to my destination where charging is available, so knowing that a plug is near, I stop worrying about efficiency and I just enjoy the speed. So my efficiency factor drops, but the fun factor goes up dramatically.
If I really was forced to maximize my range, I think I could get 45 to 50 miles. But it would be no fun.
I agree and I'm sure we all do some sort of "behavior assessment" with these new fangled forms of transportation. The last thing I want to do is show off my new technological break through commuter motorcycle by leaving it sitting on the side of the road! :-0
My work day typically requires 7 to 25 miles of movement. On the days when I know in advance that my mileage requirements are low, I have fun! On the long days, I behave myself. On days when I know I will override my limits, I charge at work and have fun anyway! HAHA!! :-)
I'm very close to getting my beautiful Burgundy Vectrix, this Saturday is its ETA. It's all paid for so is only waiting for the licence plate now.
Very interesting to hear Barry, the guy in charge of Mottingham Motorcycles in South London talk about things. He is incredibly enthusiastic about the whole project and is a new dealer.
He has just gone down to the Southampton based Vectrix UK place to get his guys on the training courses for servicing the machine.
Now get this, he has been using his demo Vectrix (the one I had a test ride on actually) and has reported that he's had 80 miles out of one charge!! I voiced my surprise and reported the best mileages that are being quoted here, he did suggest that he's riding it like a grandmother, but still. I hope that's true and he hasn't got miles and Kms mixed up as I believe you can elect which you want on the trip meter?
Of course I requested that I have those very batteries transferred into my new machine haha! That kind of range would be very nice.
This may be old news, but one other thing Barry told me is that there is a user PC interface to be marketed soon, so that we can upgrade the software ourselves as releases come out and interrogate all sorts of info from the machine, including individual cell perfomance info if I understood correctly. I've ordered one already, you bet.
Simon.
Simon
Wow, this is a bit of good news. We might get access to the Vectrix data interface! I am most interested in having such an interface (adapter/software) myself. Hope it is not going to be expensive.
Somewhere else I heard that end September Vectrix plans to bring out a news firmware. Looks like we will be having some exciting times to play around with the new toys.
Simon, could you post or PM contact details for Mottingham Motorcycles? I wonder if I should "ride" to my service instead of asking Vectrix UK to come to my house. Anyone in the UK yet had Vectrix come around for a scheduled service? What are the charges for this "in house" services compared to "ride in" service at a local dealer. Any experience yet here in the UK?
80 miles a pop no way, you dealer must have toggled the km/miles display. It's easy swap between the two display modes.
Norman
I agree. 80 miles is not possible. Riding like a grandma would get you 50 miles, which would be about 80 km.
Riding like a normal guy will get you 35 to 40 miles.
I thought 80 miles was too good to be true, he must have it on Kms and not realise it.
The new dealer in South London is:
Mottingham Motorcycles
282-284 Court Rd
London
SE9 4TU
Tel 02088571111
Barry also said that he is looking into offering a deal that if you live too far away for the Vectrix to make it under it's own power then he would pick it up and deliver it back and we would only pay for one way. Also he wants to offer a demo bike while it's being serviced.
The software and interface he hopes will be about £50 or so. Can't wait for that!
He really sounds very enthusiastic about the whole thing as I said, which is always nice to hear and he enjoys riding the machine.
He reckons he's saved a fortune on petrol in just the 2 weeks he's had the demo for, as he's using it to and from work. You see, this is what's needed and not the terrible way BMW C1 owners were and are still being treated by BMW despite having the loyalty to stick with their product that they really would rather every one of them would just crash and be removed from the world.
At BMW Park Lane once, I went in to get some spares fro my C1 and the guy serving me said there would be a few days wait until they could get them in. In the background and out of sight I heard some joker state. "Tell him he should have bought a proper motorcycle!" I was incensed and to my eternal regret did not report him to the floor manager.
This may sound harsh, but he should have lost his job for that, A. for not being loyal to BMW and B. for disrespecting a customer's choice of purchase. I've had 6 BMWs, not all new admittedly, but 3 of them have been!
Anyway, everyone I've been in contact with both on the sales side and on this forum have been so positive about the Vectrix it's like a breath of fresh air after my C1 experience. I still adore the wierd little beastie though and despite pressure from my wife, it's staying in the family LOL!!
Simon.
Simon
Oooooooohhhhhh woooosh mmmmmmMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm zuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmm!
I like.......I like a lot.
Out all day today on it and drained the battery.
Talking to Barry the dealer today and asked him about his amazing mileage, 80 MILES on one charge, small journeys of 3 miles at most and definitely not switched to Km! His has done 18,000 miles so he reckons nicely run in, well conditioned batteries and long recovery times between riding.
Re conditioning, I live on a hill so I rode it around until the mile thingy said 2 left then rode up the hill and had to roll down back home, then just up and down my road very slowly until it wouldn't move and the headlight went off on its own!
My battery indicator was perfectly spot on, when the last bar went out the mile indicator said 0 and I had about half a mile of slow riding left. Pleased with that then.
Simon.
Simon
Congrats!! Sounds like you got one that's dialed in perfect!! :-)
Due to the terrain and traffic in my area, I don't get such great range figures, and to date, my lower three or four charge bars are pretty useless, but I live on TOP of a long hill, so it comes as no surprise that I would lose the last set of bars instantly, as the hill is likely commanding more juice than the controller can muster at that charge level.
No big deal for me really. As a long time motorcycle rider, I have always relied on my trip odometer for in-the-head range calculations anyway, and it's no different with the Vectrix. I KNOW it will take me 30 miles on my normal use requirements, so I just keep an eye on my trip meter, and reset it with each charge.
I couldn't be much happier with this bike at all. There are a couple of little design issues that I'd like to see changed, but those are not beyond my own ability to eventually change anyway, so I'm just hoping my state DVM doesn't confiscate my registration over the VIN issue, and if we can get past that, we're flyin high!! :-)
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
Thanks Mik,
I got 30 miles of full, very heavy acceleration, repeated 400 foot hillclimbs and some top speeds. No regen as I wanted to bed in the Brembos and start my conditioning regime. I was told do all 5 in the first month.
The headlamp turned off just as I was running the bike back and forth on my driveway getting the last bit out of the batteries, the dash telltale went out too. The LED lights all stayed on.
The battery under safe voltage warning came on at the very end and I did see the red battery warning lamp flicker on and off periodically near the end.
So, some stats during full charge cycle:
Peak watts draw 1734
Peak amps draw 7.35 @ 230v
Total current consumed 5.98 KWh
Time taken 5:21
Cost in the UK. 47 pence
Battery temperature at begining of charge, right after running battery flat, 33c
Battery temperature at end of charge 22c
Ambient temp 14.8c
At the end of the countdown, the draw in watts became 57 alternating to 46 every second or so. The dash lights all went out and there was no fan noise at all.
Simon.
Simon
Thanks Mike,
I hope I've got a good one then.
It's a delight to ride and I went to the local hardware store on it. One of the workers ran over and wanted to know all about it. I went into my "sales pitch" and somewhere along the line I asked. "You do know it's electric don't you?" "Is it?!" He replied. He just thought it was striking to look at and loved burgundy colour! He was blown away by it being electric. I don't know how he missed that fact as it has massive "ELECTRIC" decals on the rear panels.
Simon.
Simon
It's even more fun when you get the regen habit going!! Regen in the curves and turns is like gearing down on a regular bike, rather than using the brakes. Much more effective, more control and less wear and tear on parts.
Do you mean the blue-ish backlighting when you say "dash telltale went out"?
It sounds like you were finishing off the ride in the dark. I might have missed the lights and dash illumination turning off.
Maybe it is not new.
Your Vectrix certainly seems to outperform any I have heard of so far, and on day 1!
I got 9km on the first ride and should have given it back and asked for the money back there and then.
The reason behind it seems to be bad cells in the string of 102 cells.
This shows one of the bad cell test results in the Vectux: (click to enlarge)
Seems like you have a nicely balanced pack in your Vectrix. I doubt your range will increase much further, though.
Once I have finished capacity testing all the cells I'll try if I can recondition the poorly performing cells.
Mr. Mik
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
No Mik, I mean the little green lamp that says the headlamp is on, the blue dash lights stayed on. It was at dusk when I finished the discharge.
I'm off to do my normal commute today (25 miles round trip) for the second deep discharge but feel I shall be running around again at the end getting the last amps out. Today I shall use regen and ride as I would be on my normal commute.
Is my total amps consumed normal? Seems high.
Oh, and what's with the manual? No mention of CP TR etc, nothing about what the dash is actually telling you during charging. I had to download another version with this, what I consider to be essential info.
Simon.
Simon
Why do you consider it essential info. You plug the bike in, it charges up. If it fails to do so, you call somebody. Vectrix wants their product to be user friendly, and appeal to the average citizen, not just the electronic engineers out there. Too much information leads to too much overanalyzation. It's good that this info is out there, but I don't see where it would do any good at all to have it in the owner's manual. Certainly it should be in what might someday become a Factory Service Manual.
The first day or two that I had the bike, I watched those numbers, not having a clue what they meant, then I realized, it didn't matter. Those numbers aren't there for me. When you read all the blogs of folks that are building conversions, it's mind boggling sometimes what they have to learn in terms of electrical knowledge and personal monitoring issues because of all the problems that they encounter. I'm glad that Vectrix has taken that all away and just given us a great bike that runs and doesn't require a PHD to ride! :-)
'Cos I'm a techie and make no excuses about that, LOL!!!
But seriously, they went to all that trouble to make a very informative dash display and then produce some manuals with the info about it and some without.
Just managed to get 49.3 miles from mine through suburbs with hills and plenty of traffic lights, always keeping to no more than 30mph and using regen at every opportunity. Now it's doing it's second conditioning charge. Feeling pretty pleased.
I haven't just ridden a bike for pure pleasure for some time, it was a delightful evening :-)
Simon.
P.S. The Vectrix PC interface and software will be with me soon, my dealer as getting 5 in for starters. See, unashamedly just a techie. :-)
Simon
Please post all of the images of the interface and descriptions, documentation, etc. of the software that you can stand! There are plenty more of us Vectrix techies that will be envious of you having it!
What is the price of the hw/sw kit? If they're not already spoken for, I'd probably buy one from him, if he can ship it to the US!
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