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Of course I will Dave. I know it plugs into the port in the glovebox and it does come with software. The price may be around £50 - £60. If it's simply a com cable then I hope a USB to com cable converter will work, as I know some devices don't like converters and many laptops don't have com ports anymore.
Simon.
Simon
That would be very cheap compared to what full-blown CanBus adapters and software cost!
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2775-vectrix-technical-resources#comment-17850
The one shown at the above link is what the Vectrix Australia tech used.
Mr. Mik
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
The more I ride this marvel the more I wonder at it's brilliance. I know I'm preaching to the converted here, but everyone around me is getting fed up of hearing me bleat on about it! LOLOL!!!
I took it out for a pleasure ride yesterday and am building my confidence on how far I can take my PONR, (Point Of No Return, you guys knew that I'm sure) Well, I went a long way out into the leafy Surrey countryside (South of London) and started to feel very exposed, I then I panicked and turned for home and a friendly charging point.
I had loads of power left however and got a nice 37 miles of very hard and high speed riding. Three conditioning cycles done now.
Just loving the puzzled looks on people's faces when I hum past, the huge words ELECTRIC on the tail section I adore, I have in smaller letters, 100% Zero emmision vehicle.
Simon.
Simon
Hmmm. That makes me wonder why my battery's temperature ends up much higher at the end of charge than at the beginning of the charge. My yesterday's end of driving at 15'C ambient got battery at 38'C. Then I fully recharged the battery in the evening, when the temperature dropped to 5'C and the battery's temperature at the end of charge was 44'C and red battery telltale lit up.
I'm gonna check if both front fans are working when charging. Are there any other fans that cool the batteries?
The charger is fan cooled and the batteries are too, Mik will be able to tell you how many fans there are.
After a normal run to half the battery capacity used up and with the outside temperature in the UK of being at present 10c - 15c my battery shows about 26c, then after a few minutes of charging, it drops to 22c which is the temp at which the charging ends too.
Simon
There's definately something wrong with my bike. Yesterday, when I came home with battery empty, but not all the battery used in one drive, the battery temperature was 38'C. At the end of charge the battery temperature rose to 44'C with red battery telltale lit :-(
Well Andy, it's nothing like what I'm getting.
My charge is finishing off right now with the battery temp at a steady 22c, the display shows CC152, the volts at 142, the speedo is showing 3 amps charge rate, it's drawing 2.5 amps @ 220v and the battery meter is showing as being 17/17.
Your readings do seem a little off, especially with the red indicator lit whilst charging. I'd take it straight back for a check.
Simon
AndY1, have you ever heard another Vectrix when it is being charged? I makes quite a bit of noise and a lot of airflow from the black duct located in front of the rear tire. I had 500 miles on my Vectrix before I found the fans were disconnected under the front seat. I had the same kind of problem you have--heating to 45 or 46 C near the end of charge (and long charge times). After connecting the fans, all problems went away. Just a thought.
No I haven't. I'm the only Vectrix owner in my country.
I know I have already read here about someone having the same problem, I just didn't know who it was. I think I have exact same problem.
The front side ports are sucking very gently, while there's more wind coming from below the front light. There's some air blowing between the back tire and the VIN plate. The problem is that there's no warm wind blowing from anywhere that I could find.
My charge time was 5+ hours and I got this at the end of EC:
I'm gonna contact my dealer in Italy. I hope this is something I could fix myself (with my dealer allowing it), 'cos otherwise someone or something will have to travel 350km for repair.
Did your high battery temperature damage the battery? Did you have the battery replaced? Did you experience a reduced range?
Because I have. From Sunday's 70km I could only do 65 yesterday. I expected an increase in range not a decrease. Because if this malfunction somehow damaged the battery, I will want to have the battery replaced as well. I don't want to be stuck with a damaged battery because they messed up the cooling at the factory.
I just came back from a garage (15'C) (it's 4AM here but I couldn't sleep). I turned on the bike, while it was still in the plug but already fully charged 2 hours ago and I got a BATHOT.
When I unplugged the bike and turned it on, the same condition appeared and fans started to run wildly:
I checked at the duct at the rear tire and there was NO air coming out of there.
When they fix this I'm going to demand a new battery. This condition has surely damaged the battery. I won't tolerate paying a lot of money for the bike and because they did a sloppy job, that I will have to bare a damaged battery for the rest of the bike's life.
It's after 8:00 AM, 6 hours after a complete recharge, the bike has been sitting out at 5'C and it still is BATHOT when turned on. No hot air coming out, front fans spinning uselessly.
FFS, this battery got cooked really good. I'm gonna demand a new battery. This battery surely suffered a reduced capacity.
The motor controller fan comes on when GO is displayed.
If the "fans run wildly" without any air being blown around in front of the rear wheel, then you have discovered a brand new fault! Congratulations, and welcome to the club...
Maybe they will tell you that "the scooter was designed to work flawlessly" or similar nonsense, too. (That's what I got for my efforts to describe clear malfunctions to the Vectrix Australia salesman).
There are several possible explanations for the apparent problems your Vectrix has:
1) Fan connector under front seat not plugged in. Very easy to check, hard to prove you have done it. 2 screws only hold the front seat down.
2) An obstacle in the intake or outlet path for the battery cooling air flow. That would explain why/if the fans run without you detecting airflow. That would also explain the heating up during riding.
3) A faulty temp sensor. The temperature might be normal, just reported as abnormal. That would explain why you posted some time earlier that the airflow was not warm.
It would also explain why it is apparently not cooling down when standing around.
4) A faulty cell (or a cell that needs more gentle conditioning to get it's capacity up, a cell which cannot yet cope with deep discharges) which also happens to have a temp sensor on it. That would also explain a cool airflow when the battery temp is being reported as hot. Only the highest temp sensor reading gets reported, AFAIK.
5) A poorly tightened inter-cell-connector which heats up due to the resulting resistance. Hard to find where the loose screw is without taking the whole battery to pieces....unless the Scooterdiagnostics software can tell you which temp sensor sends what results.
If Vectrix Corp. still have some money left then they might send a technician to you to investigate the problem. That would be good for you, because you might be able to watch the diagnostic process and the repair, if possible.
Maybe s/he knows what s/he is doing, too!
I'm sure there are other possible explanations.
Good luck with it all!
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
I think it's number 2. When I turned on the bike at 4:00AM, when the BATHOT appeared, the two battery fans in front of the bike started spinning. I didn't GO the bike, so these 2 were the only ones spinning.
Then I checked the outlet above the VIN plate and there was no air moving at all. BUT, I did sense with my nose ;-) some HOT air coming out of area near the seat. I couldn't find where exactly was it coming out, but my nose didn't lie.
Also, the battery temperature, when I got home on Sunday (and I was driving <=70 km/h) was 38'C, outdoor temperature was 10'C.
At 8:00+AM, when I turned on the bike, it was still BATHOT, so the battery pack was definately cooked good. I also told my dealer about that and told him that when repaired, I want a new battery, 'cos I'm not gonna tolerate a damaged pack with a NEW bike, which was damaged because of sloppy work in the factory and not getting proper cooling.
When I started charging the battery in the evening, the battery pack temperature was 24'C, ambient 15'C. If everything was OK, it wouldn't have gotten 50+'C. I'm not quite sure where the temperature reading goes into BATHOT reading, but it must be somewhere high, well above the design limits.
The difference is clearly visible. On Saturday and Sunday, when both charges were made from 50% battery full and the battery didn't go into BATHOT, I could do 10km for every 2 bars on the LCD. Now, I require 3 bars on the LCD for 10km. I still drive the way I did on weekend =< 70 km/h.
On Saturday I did 40km with 9 bars, on Sunday I did 70km with all bars, yesterday I did 60km 'till 2/17, then I got disappearing bars. The gearbox is nicely worn in and it's nearly quiet, so the rolling resistance should be lower and the range should increase. Instead it decreased. The battery is cooked and damaged. It's not my fault that I received a defective cooling system, because of which the battery got cooked and I'm gonna insist on a new battery.
In automotive form: If I had received a new car without an oil in the engine without any warning telltale and the engine would seize, I would not expect them only to pour oil into an already damaged engine but to replace an engine as well.
You may have shortened the life of the pack (a little) but most likely have not damaged it. I ran 500 miles with no cooling fans at all and the pack seems to be OK as far as cell balance and range are concerned. My Vectrix was delivered with all the cooling fans inoperative because a connector was not installed after the battery pack re-work. Anytime a mechanic works on something its a crap shoot if they are doing more damage then if it wasn't worked on at all. My suggestion is to ask for a replacement scooter or at a minimum an extended warranty on the battery pack.
In your opinion, you don't think I lost the capacity? My range is certainly going down, not up ;-)
I mean, the battery pack was in BATHOT state for at least 6 hours, even though it was standing outside at 5'C temperature. IMO the battery temperature was at least 50'C, since I know, that 44'C is shown on the LCD (and you said that you saw 46'C reading on yours). BATHOT overwrites the temperature reading, so it must had been at least 44+'C. And since it didn't cool down until 9AM, my aproximation would be, that it's top temperature must had been at least 50'C - for a looong time.
Did you have your battery exposed to such high temperatures for such a long time, so that the BATHOT state would last for 6 hours?
GP documents says, that charging should run at no more than 40'C. So 50+'C at 6 hours :-(
I don't mean to question you I just want to reassure myself, that I didn't loose range. Range is very important to me, because we (my gf and I) usually go for a drive to a nice lake, which is 50km away and I'd like to make that trip on the Vectrix. I have a charge plug there ;-) my mother lives there.
We need to try to definitely establish if you are talking about the correct fans.
I'll try to explain how you can learn to distinguish their sound and effect.
A) The charger cooling fans (2):
The fans at the front, between the shock absorbers, on the side of the charger, a bit hard to see, are so quiet in comparison to the other fans that you would hardly hear them whilst the other fans are running. They are about as large as the fans on a desktop PC power supply. They blow air downwards onto the mudguard over the front wheel, it is easy to feel this. They run only when the scooter is being charged.
B) The battery cooling fans (2):
They are mounted under the front seat and are a lot louder than the charger cooling fans. They suck air in through the metal grille inlets underneath the front fairing on both sides, then through the batteries, then through the fans itself, then out in a downward direction in front of the rear wheel (excellent glove and boot drier!).
They often, but not always start running with a 3 sec delay between each other.
They start to spin at the moment that the speedo needle starts to rise at the beginning of charging, and take about 7 sec to reach full speed. They can also start to run during or after riding whenever the battery temperature gets too high. They have only one speed setting, but sometimes cause interesting auditory interference patterns due to slight speed differences between the two fans.
C) The motor controller (MC) fan (1):
This is the only variable speed fan on the Vectrix. It gets very loud when the MC board is hot and when you give full throttle.
It starts to run at low speed as soon as "GO" is displayed.
After riding you can often hear it running fast and stepping down in speed every few seconds until it stops after a few minutes. It can continue to run for a short time even if you turn off the "electrification" (ignition would be the wrong word...;-) )
It blows air downward in front of the rear wheel, and this air stream can easily be confused with the battery cooling fans air stream. But the sound is different.
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
Yep, that's correct.
1. The bike was turned off, charge cable plugged in - Vectrix was fully charged. I disconnect the power cable.
2. When I turned on the bike, the battery & the temperature telltales lit up and BATHOT appeared. I didn't do the GO procedure yet.
3. A fan(s) starts. Not the GO one.
4. I go to the rear wheel and move my hand towards the black box above the VIN plate. Nothing. The hot air should be getting out of there, but it's not.
The temperature sensor is ok, because before I had a provisional licence plate, I had the bike parked in the garage. When I first connected the bike to the 220V, the temperature was the correct one = 15'C. The temperature of the batteries rises very little until the 15/17 or 16/17 bars full (CP). The CC and the rest starts to roast the battery.
Something doesn't make any sense here. There is a black air duct located in front of the rear wheel. It is open on the bottom. Air from the cooling fans for the motor controller and the batteries exhausts through this duct. If you can hear the fans running and feel no airflow from the bottom of this duct, something is blocking it. With a mirror and a light, look in the bottom of the duct. You will see the heat sink for the motor controller and at the very top, you can actually see the MC cooling fan. This should run when the key is on in the "go" position. Have someone hold the bike up (sidestand retracted) and look in there. You should see the fan turning and feel the airflow. When the charger cord is plugged in the charger fans and the battery cooling fans start. They are very loud--you can't miss the sound--a lot more airflow out of the duct at the rear. If you don't hear these fans take the seat off and make sure the 3 pin Molex connector is fully plugged in on the top of the battery. This is the connector that was not connected on my Vectrix. If it is not plugged in, the cable can be found on the left side of the bike between the battery and the side panel of the scooter. It has a tag on it that identifies it as the "battery cooling fan" cable. Maybe the same clown who re-worked my scooter did yours.
I just checked again last evening, when I plugged the bike to charge. The battery fan/s start when I plug the bike in. The battery temperature started at 30'C and after 2 hours it rose to 33'C. I stopped the charging procedure then, because the battery heats up the most at the EC part of charging. It's pulling cca. 250W from the 220V at that time (EC).
The air in the back isn't blowing from the bottom of the duct, but I sensed that there was gentle wind coming from somewhere. So I took some time and found that the wind was blowing somewhere on the left side, behind the left wheel plastic cover, below the seat.
When I started charging in the evening, the temperature read 30'C. That's why I decided I will charge only up to 16/17 bars, before cooking takes place. At 16/17, the temperature rose to 33'C, so I stopped charging. But this is annoying. I can't always be by the bike watching the temperature reading.
Luckily, the temperature here is pretty low right now, so I can, at least, ride the bike.
But I'm still concerned about the battery, that it hasn't been cooked and damaged when the HOTBAT took place for more than 6 hours. The range isn't improving :-(
My dealer told me not to take the seat off because of the Warranty, but that he will contact someone in Rome to resolve the issue. I live 350km from the nearest dealer.
Edit: At least I got some good news yesterday. I imported the bike from Italy. That's why I paid there only the NET price, without VAT. In EU, you pay VAT in the country where you register the vehicle for the road. Well, I submitted application for the VAT, which is 20% in my country. The good news is, that for imported vehicles, that have less than 7kW and less than 48ccm ;-) don't have to pay VAT :D I saved 1300 EUR, haha. Luckily I have my ears in place so my head didn't fell off. I was smiling that much :-)
Edit2: My power consumption during charging is as follows:
1. CP = 1660W
2. TR (15 minutes) = 250W
3. CC = 450W
4. EC (1 hour) = 250W
Is that ok?
Edit3: I'll try to post a short video of beginning of charging tonight.
That seems to be the cycle mine does.
Could it be that there is a warm air duct that has become detached, removed, blocked? Or that the fans are running reversed?
It's quite a flow of air that exits from below the seat on the right hand side. The airflow from my Vectrix is cool when charging, but my batteries aren't getting that hot!
After my ride home, 12 miles at an ambient temp of around 15c the batteries report 26c at start of charge, this gradually drops to about 22c at the end of charge.
Shame you can't remove the seat, to check things out yourself.
Simon
I have nothing like that. There's only a gentle warmish wind blowing by the left shock absorber.
Yesterday, after 3 hours of resting, I had 30'C, after 2 hours of charging the temperature rose to 33'C.
I'm still concerned that the 6 hours of BATHOT cooking damaged my battery's capacity and really shortened it's life.
It's also interesting, that I haven't yet received any reply from my dealer.
Here is a link for the intrepid explorer:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2547-vectrix-reports#comment-13640
Sorry, at this stage I do not have the time to either proof read and/or update it.
It's easy to find, but I found it quicker than the average fella because I knew that I wrote it and therefore remembered some key words. Like: "Vectrix reports". Which makes it easy because it is the thread it was posted in.
But even if I had known nothing, and therefore searched "vectrix charging cycles" in the search window in the top right corner of VisforVoltage, the appropriate thread would have come up pretty soon.
How about "CC, CP, tr, EC" ??? It unfortunately yields "0" results on "V".
So what if you use Google instead? At first you get Cyrillic pages, mostly...
But if you add "Vectrix", typing in "Vectrix, CP, tr, CC, EC" then the first two results are actually linking to the above link.
It is not hard.
He who searches shall find....
And he who keeps repeating himself wasteth his life away...HAHA!
This time the moderators will not delete it, because I'm not gonna' mention any confuzed popular philosophers, it's all my own nonsense! (Insider joke, forget it!)
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
I get the gentle warmish wind blowing from the left shock absorber, I understand this is the charger unit's fan and should only run when charging. so to recap, when you plug in the bike to charge, the dash lights up, a few seconds later you should hear this noise, difficult to write it down, but I'll try.
grrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
So it starts with a low growl which rises as the fans speed up and turns into quite a loud hum. The sound is from the centre to rear of the bike, not at all from the front. This sound you will hear from quite a few paces from the machine, I mean I can hear it through the door to my garage when the bike is being charged in there.
I wouldn't be so worried about the batteries, when you get the cooling sorted I'll bet you get your range back. I have had NiMh batteries get to a frightening temperature after quick charging, too hot to handle and they have been fine when analysed for capacity later. This was before I got a very intelligent charger, I don't have that problem now. I know they vent gas as a precaution against rupture which will dry them out eventually, but you seem to be keeping on top of the charging manually to prevent REALLY high temperatures.
Just a thought, as the battery temperature rises and you unplug for a few hours to prevent meltdown, how about using a timer for the moment, with a few ons AND offs to give the pack time to cool off a bit. Just like it says in the manual, it likes opportunistic charging, which in a way is what you would be doing, but you could at least let it get on with it on its own over night.
Simon
Yes, that's how it sounds.
:-) This made me calm down.
That's what I've been practicing now (since yesterday evening). I estimated that each bar takes aprox. 10 minutes to charge. I then count the time to 16/17 bars and leave it charging for that much time, then I unplug the vehicle. The battery temperature is at a reasonable temperature of 33'C.
On a side note: I talked on the phone with the dealer and he told me that a technician from Rome should call me. I hope we sort out the problem without to much hassle.
Then what on earth's going on then if the fans are running? A blockage or disconnected duct is all I can think of.
You say there is not much air coming out from the vent by the rear wheel? There should be a good breeze, As Mik says, a good glove/boot drier I'm sure.
Mik, where is the air intake for the battery cooling? Is it the left hand side vent under the nose? Can that be blocked?
Could the cooling fans be running fine, but circulating the air inside the battery compartment and not changing the air due to a duct not being connected or blocked?
Simon
Hi
I know the battery is hot compared to what is is suppose to be . But 50c is really not that hot . I do not think it would do anything to the batterys . 50 c you could hold in your hand . good hot water from your tap could be 50 c .
I know some people think Vectrix miss some things . But I would think they have a high temp shut off for the charger.
So when you find the problem it should be fine .
As for your waratty as long as you do not go posting pic and vids on line. and telling everyone all the things you saw when you look at your bike . who will know . sometimes it best to keep quiet .
Hope you find your problem soon .
Happy riding , Herb
Exactly. There you go Andy, did I not read somewhere that 50C was just the upper working limit of the battery pack?
The NiMh batteries I've had that have gone hot, you really couldn't hold, they would have been 60C+ I reckon.
Simon
I hope I find it too. I must say I gained confidence in my bike today. I've driven fast (up to 90km/h) and the battery is getting better performing. However, the charging temperature will have to be resolved.
However I must disagree with you on the above point. This is a discussion forum where people help each other and I can show whatever pictures I want and get to keep my warranty until I start messing with bike's internals (which I'm not doing BTW).
Not posting pics and videos online? Keep quiet? Are you serious? Where do you live? China?
Are you telling me I should not talk about my problems? Or do you maybe want to tell me that it's ok to BATHOT the battery when charging? Or maybe it is ok to let the bike standing out at 5'C and that the BATHOT keeps for 6 hours?
I hope you let me show this pic from the GP NiMH tech manual:
On a more positive note:
Would I buy another one? Immediately!
Would I recommend the Vectrix? I do! I do that many times a day. I'm gonna have to record myself on a tape for every person that asks me about it ;-)
Vectrix flies like a wind. I'm sure my battery problems will be resolved. For now, I go for safe charging to up to 16/17 bars (2 hours). It charges very fast. Aprox. 10 minutes for every battery bar.
It looks beautiful. The design is perfect. Bright red color us my favorite and it's exactly the one I wanted.
The front light is enough bright. I don't need more. LED lights are perfect. Even my coworker, who drove behind me this morning on a trip to work, said that the red tail light looks awesome.
Regen is perfect. I use hand brakes only when I stop at the traffic light with inclination.
Handling is WOW! It's like sitting in a couch and dancing.
Torque is amazing. I drove behind a car this afternoon. We went uphill. But when started loosing speed and had to switch to lower gear, I just added throttle and gained speed.
I just noticed one thing on the way back. When I drove faster that 70km/h and was driving straight, I sensed slight vibrations, which were gone, if I swung slightly to the left and right. I attribute that to the tires.
Shock absorbers are doing their job as on any other high price motorcycle. Tires have very good traction.
I also didn't know that my country is so eco-friendly. No VAT for vehicles below 7kW and below 48ccm - I saved 1300 EUR there. No road tax. I purchased the bike using the country's eco-fund at a 3.8% interest rate for the loan, which is lower than inflation. The monthly payment for the loan is 64.50 EUR, which is the amount I don't have to pay for gas anymore. I consider my Vectrix getting it almost for free.
All in all. I'm very satisfied with my purchase and I can only recommend Vectrix. He gets my sign of approval ;-)
P.S.: I think I will be able to get Vectrix to one of our country's free weekly newspapers. When I showed the Vectrix to my coworker, he was so impressed, that he contacted his friend - automotive journalist and he was for it.
I think there's a lot of interest when they're shown, but the people just aren't aware of the alternatives to gas powered vehicles.
On this topic of keeping quiet for warranty reasons? I do not agree. There are laws in my area which regulate consumers use of auto after market parts and non auto dealer repair services. These laws override any manufacturer warranty limitations. For example, if I modify my engine to make more power, the dealer does not have to provide warranty for my engine and tranny, but if my car radio doesn't work right its still would be covered because the dealer / manufacturer would need to prove that the outside modifications were related to the problem. If we disagreed we could go to court and let a judge decide. Most dealers end of being somewhat flexible nowdays from what I know.
Now electronics stuff has an interesting warranty method. Manufacturers stick this sticker on their entire widget box, and state if you remove the sticker, your warranty is void. This seems to be common practice for small electronic widget boxes.
I am concerned that people are afraid to taking pictures of your own bike. Its not like this thing is a super computer or something that is advanced. I mean it just a scooter. I don't consider much of what the bike is to be special expect maybe their firmware which you cannot take a pictures. The design of the bike is cool, but its obvious just looking at it how it works and they publically posting enough pictures of this bike that I dont see what your digital camera would uncover to make Vectrix unhappy. It seems odd to me to fear Vectrix because they will deny warranty for taking pictures of gears, wires, and boards. From what I know of Mik's case there was modifications made and that is different situation from taking pictures. However, if you take it apart a bike and put it back together correctly, and then later on the Bike need warranty work, I dont think Vectix could win in court to denying the warranty simply because you took it apart to take pictures. Anyhow, i'm no laywer, and the laws are different in every area so I can only say this is my opinion.
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